Hello folks!

It's Thursday, and you all know what that means... pea soup, pancakes and warm Punsch! Also, a Crusader Kings II dev diary. Today's topic is Plots. Like in EU:Rome, characters can have a specific ambition in life. It can be innocuous things like getting married, getting rich, or having a nice glass of warm Punsch, but sometimes it can be more sinister, like having your wife fall down the stairs. These nasty ambitions are called Plots, and they are hidden from other characters unless they are in on it (or have been made aware of it.) Those of you who have played Sengoku will recognize the general concept, although it works slightly differently in Crusader Kings II. You pick an available plot, then you can start inviting other characters into it. If the plot is military in nature, like gaining control of a title, the plot gains power from rulers commanding a military force. If it's an intrigue plot, you should rather invite those who are close to the target of the plot. Plot power is just a percentage, and will unlock new events and decisions the further along it is. At 100% plot power, the plot is likely to succeed.

The problem is that Spymasters (the council position) can discover plots, depending on their intrigue skill vs the plotter's intrigue skill. Unless they too are in on it, they will report to their liege, who can then choose to take action. If you are lucky, he might just demand that you cease and desist. However, since he has evidence of your scheming, he is allowed to imprison you without repercussions (normally, other characters will perceive you as a tyrant when you throw people in the dungeon.) Being imprisoned automatically ends the plot, by the way.



These are some of the more interesting plots:

• Change the Succession Law
• Take a landed title from your Liege
• Have a character killed

Over the last week we've been balancing the succession law plots, because everyone and their uncle were plotting to institute Elective Monarchy. (In 1453, all kingdoms had ended up with this law.) Of course, it does make perfect sense for vassals to pick this plot, because it gives them a chance of getting elected themselves. However, it wasn't very nice of the Duke of Aquitaine to start a civil war over this right when King Philippe was trying to take Normandy back from William the Conqueror... So, we tweaked the likelihood of others joining in the plot and tightened up the conditions for taking it.

That's all for now!

 

[Jak9090]

hmm hope elective law doesn't turn out to be something unrealistic, and personally game breaking for me, historically not many kingdoms used this form from waht I know.

 

[HMAS-Nameless]

Love the new Duchy map mode!

 

[Orinsul]

Love the new Duchy map mode!

is that what it was, very purple but nice all the same. so all the purple is under dukes? or under the same duke? its duchies instead of provinces with names on and borders round right?

hmm hope elective law doesn't turn out to be something unrealistic, and personally game breaking for me, historically not many kingdoms used this form from waht I know.

Historically they all did, just not offically. When the need arose, if the heir was an assertive idiot and his brother an easily lead charismatic, then things would be arranged so the heir couldnt make it to the capital in time. If the heir was a child and normans were about the invade, then the most powerful noble stepped up to the challenge, if the confirmed, legal and sworn heir is a girl then you hand it on to her french cousin. As long as elective law is only in place until a strong king comes along and reverts to the old rule and vassals tend to favour the son when casting votes then its wholely historical.


Can imprisoning or exiling upset the succession? Exile your eldest son to favour your younger, that sort of thing? Will there be like a CB thing for exiling and imprisonment so you can make different conditions give free passes? The Anglo-Dane English had a habit of outlawing their sons over nothing on account of tradition, a go be prove yourself and when you come back with a dent or two in your shield youll get pardoned thing. It'd be nice to do that without it being treated as though you were trying to get rid of him or being unjust.

 

[DukeWilleo1630]

Elective law is fine with me and would actually lead to some very interesting gameplay. As long as only the king title passes from one family to the next.

 

[Hyzhenhok]

Yeah, strongly recommend limiting the Elective Law plot and replacing it with a usurping plot, or at least make sure that kings of Elective Law kingdoms are highly likely to change it back so their dynasty stays in charge.

 

[Doomdark]

This isn't how Elective Succession works in-game though. Elective succession is the strongest vassal becoming king, not inviting a foreign king to rule.

Elective Monarchy in CKII means that the vassals vote for a successor from among themselves and the children of the ruler.

 

[John Forseti]

Yeah, strongly recommend limiting the Elective Law plot and replacing it with a usurping plot, or at least make sure that kings of Elective Law kingdoms are highly likely to change it back so their dynasty stays in charge.

The Devs have already said in the thread that they're limiting the ability to plot for elective law to when the Crown's authority is very low, and made sure vassals are extremely unlikely to plot against their lieges unless they really can't stand him. So until we can have a go and see for outselves, looks like the issue is dealt with/being dealt with.

 

[Orinsul]

The Devs have already said in the thread that they're limiting the ability to plot for elective law to when the Crown's authority is very low, and made sure vassals are extremely unlikely to plot against their lieges unless they really can't stand him. So until we can have a go and see for outselves, looks like the issue is dealt with/being dealt with.

i hope itll be unless they really cant stand his children, changing succession law isnt going to help not being able to stand the king but itll help alot with not being able to stand the prince.

 

[Hyzhenhok]

The Devs have already said in the thread that they're limiting the ability to plot for elective law to when the Crown's authority is very low, and made sure vassals are extremely unlikely to plot against their lieges unless they really can't stand him. So until we can have a go and see for outselves, looks like the issue is dealt with/being dealt with.

I'm more worried about the part where every country ended the game as an elective monarchy, not because it was too common, but because there is apparently a missing mechanic to turn elective monarchies back into primogeniture or what have you. Relevant to the dev diary: there should be a "plot" available for kings of elective monarchies to change the succession law to one that ensures the future of their dynasty.

 

[John Forseti]

Surely for starting a war and seeing thousands of countrymen dead rather than agree to the proper and most correct conclusion of the estates of the realm regarding the matter of law, and to top it off, loosing said war, would show that not only is the King a dreadful incompetant but that he displeases the Lord and therefore the first thing to do would be to elect a new King, the most respected and competant of all the nobles, like the leader of the plot say.

I'm more worried about the part where every country ended the game as an elective monarchy, not because it was too common, but because there is apparently a missing mechanic to turn elective monarchies back into primogeniture or what have you. Relevant to the dev diary: there should be a "plot" available for kings of elective monarchies to change the succession law to one that ensures the future of their dynasty.

I don't think it's suggested there isn't such a plot, just that due to balancing, it hasn't occured, or if it has, was soon overturned by another elective plot.

 

[Nick B II]

Historically they all did, just not offically. When the need arose, if the heir was an assertive idiot and his brother an easily lead charismatic, then things would be arranged so the heir couldnt make it to the capital in time. If the heir was a child and normans were about the invade, then the most powerful noble stepped up to the challenge, if the confirmed, legal and sworn heir is a girl then you hand it on to her french cousin. As long as elective law is only in place until a strong king comes along and reverts to the old rule and vassals tend to favour the son when casting votes then its wholely historical.

Agreed that frequently the wrong Prince got the throne.

The thing that seems to be missing from CK2 is that vassals almost never made one of their own King. It was almost always somebody from the ruling family. An improved version of CK1's Consanguinity succession law should probably be the most common law in 1066, but it looks like the only choices will be Primogeniture and Elective. Consanguinity would be ideal.

England, for example, had 18 Kings through this period. All but Harold Harefoot were members of the Royal Family, but many of them weren't the heir by strict primogeniture. It's very hard to simulate this without Consanguinity.

In some ways that's not important. Pretty much all of them dealt with a Civil War at the start of their reigns, frequently featuring a brother claiming the throne, so the fact that Robert Curthose gets to be King, rather then a Princeling fighting for the crown, isn't a huge deal.

Or they could balance Elective Law so that when Crown Authority is above zero the Dukes go along with the King. But that has the disadvantage that it makes Elective Law essentially meaningless, and that you'd get ahistorical dynastic changes in times of low Crown authority such as the rule of King John.

Nick

 

[Eirik Bloodaxe]

Some irish joy, for punch lovers: Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem - Jug of Punch. Excited about the game btw

 

[takedown47]

Yep, talk to them, imprison them, or have them killed. Your choice.

lol, if only modern day life was that simple :happy:

 

[Drakken]

The thing that seems to be missing from CK2 is that vassals almost never made one of their own King. It was almost always somebody from the ruling family. An improved version of CK1's Consanguinity succession law should probably be the most common law in 1066, but it looks like the only choices will be Primogeniture and Elective. Consanguinity would be ideal.

Henry IV was a member of the Royal Family? A cousin, yes. A heir, certainly not.

 

[InboxMadness]

Why would anyone want to imprison troublesome characters instead of killing them?

 

[Darkrenown]

Killing them is so final, and it can upset their family.

 

[vadermath]

Killing them is so final, and it can upset their family.

For some reason, I laughed sooo hard at that sentence

 

[Ben Music]

I hope it's easier to recruit characters for your plot and than it in Sengoku. I don't think I've ever been able to recruit anyone for a plot in that game.

 

[Orinsul]

Elective Monarchy in CKII means that the vassals vote for a successor from among themselves and the children of the ruler.

if everyones voting for you and you don't want them to can you turn down the position or pass the votes on to someone else?

 

[A_Dane]

but it's good to be the king?