• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Hello again folks!

It's a new month and high time for another development diary. This time, let's talk about barons. In the original Crusader Kings, characters could only hold titles of three ranks; count, duke and king (though these could be called different things in different cultures). Barons existed indirectly in the form of provincial nobility, which, together with the clergy, peasants and burghers, had different power, loyalty and tax values. The player could fiddle around with the power values of the four classes, which would affect the tax rate and the composition of the provincial levy. As it turned out, this was one of the least successful features in the game, because the micromanagement was tedious and did not have enough impact to make it worthwhile. Therefore, in Crusader Kings II, the whole thing has been cut. Instead, each province will have between one and eight named settlements. A settlement is either a castle, city or church, and characters can hold the title to a settlement just like they can to counties and duchies.

Castles are regular feudal holdings, whose barons are normally in fief to the provincial count. Cities are commercial hubs governed by a mayor. Finally, church settlements are run by a Bishop (or Mufti, or similiar.) Like the four classes of Crusader Kings, the three types of settlement provide different types of troop levies and have different tax rates depending on laws. Unlike the class power of Crusader Kings, the rights of churches and cities - and the investiture of their leaders - should be interesting to play around with. (More on this in a later dev diary.)

Barony tier characters are not playable, mainly for performance reasons. (We do not want barons to have courts of their own, with the explosion of characters this would require.) They have a more rudimentary form of AI than playable characters, but will respond to diplomacy and might raise their army in revolt. Another measure to keep the character count down in Crusader Kings II is that you can have your vassals double as councillors (so there is less need for minor nobles to be created by the game).

What about the level of micromanagement - won't all these baronies require more player attention? Well, the whole point of the feudal system is delegation, so the short answer is that for dukes and above; not much. Granted, the dynamic around cities and churches will require more attention, but of the right kind and infrequently. The existence of baronies will also make playing counts a lot more interesting.

I don't have any baronial graphics in particular to show you, but here's a little something that Aerie is working on...

CK2_Diary002_01.png


That's all for now. Don't miss the next dev diary on December 2!


Henrik Fåhraeus, Associate Producer and CKII Project Lead
 
Hum, about these scripted lower settlement limits, could you tie them to techs? I was thinking along the lines of improved farming technology alowing you to build more sttelments for example. One place that I know will have realy smal amounts of settelments is Scandinavia, especially the densly forested Småland and Norrland, not to talk about Finland:D It would be cool if improved africulture could raise the cap on settlements for these places.

IMO this would make sense, since new agricultural techniques will make a larger part of a territorymore productive, but this also includes technologies for polders etc.
So especially some of the less developed areas in 1066 should be able to improve during the game.

Furthermore I would have loved to see viscounts and marquesses, but I understand that this isn't going to happen; but is same tier vassalization possible? For instance can a count (force)-vassalize another count and will vassal kingdoms be possible (but rare)?
 
Last edited:
Are there also province improvements? I think I read somewhere that the answer is no, but does that mean that things like road networks (between settlements) are not represented?
 
If I'm playing a count or Duke, can my character be chosen to serve as an advisor/courtier for my liege? If so, will there be special events and gameplay related to this position?

Short answer: yes! ... no idea about the events thing.
 
Are there also province improvements? I think I read somewhere that the answer is no, but does that mean that things like road networks (between settlements) are not represented?

This is what Doomdark said

Settlements can be improved with various buildings, provinces cannot. Your demesne size is counted by Settlement, not province, etc.
 
How will a Baron's CoA be determined?

In CK1 the Counties were static so it was easy to just assign all of them a bmp. In CK2 entirely new Baronies will be created during the game. Will there by dynastic arms (ie: all Capet Barons use Azure a semy of fleur de lis or), will all possible Baronies be named and given a CoA in the game-files, or will they be determined algorithmically?

What happens if a Count inherits more land then he can handle? Maybe his desmene limit is one Barony, but he's got four Counties. He can't create a Duke-title from those four, and he can't run all four County capitals without busting his desmene limit all to hell. In CK1 he'd make a random Courtier Count of the extra land, and his liege would gain a vassal. I hope that's not what'll happen in CK2 becuse it's highly unhistorical.

Nick
 
Re: Lower Level Vassal Squables

Would the Count / Duke / King be able to interfere in lower level squabbles? I am wondering if there is going to be a way to help a party that you favor, either by giving them money, lending their claim legitimacy, outright delcaring war on someone, etc.

It would be fun, that a small squabble between barons / counts / dukes gets exacerbated by meddling of counts / dukes / king and it turns into a civil war.
 
If I'm a Duke can I be my king's Chancellor?

A thing I missed in CK1. Maybe a vassal of mine is very good at stewardship. Shouldn't I appoint him Steward, instead of waiting for some decent-stated noble to appear at my court?

Recieving some office from your liege would be interesting too, but I would be more interested in how would the game manage relations between the liege and his vassals. Will we finally see a way to allow vassals to quarrel without the king interveening. And, if he does, can he mobilise a plausible amount of his troops, adjusted to the thread this vassal represents?

Which brings me to the next point: gathering your army and your vassals was never as easy as it appears in CK1. In 1100, Feudal mechanisms of war and call to arms were still applyable. Even the arrière-ban, the right to call all subjects, nobles or not, to arms, in a defensive war, still worked. But in 1300, many kings must see how only 8-10% of his real "manpower" answers his call. And the king can really do nothing, unless he decides to go from castle to castle forcing the nobles to follow him, which would provoke a rebellion.


How will a Baron's CoA be determined?

In CK1 the Counties were static so it was easy to just assign all of them a bmp. In CK2 entirely new Baronies will be created during the game. Will there by dynastic arms (ie: all Capet Barons use Azure a semy of fleur de lis or), will all possible Baronies be named and given a CoA in the game-files, or will they be determined algorithmically?

What happens if a Count inherits more land then he can handle? Maybe his desmene limit is one Barony, but he's got four Counties. He can't create a Duke-title from those four, and he can't run all four County capitals without busting his desmene limit all to hell. In CK1 he'd make a random Courtier Count of the extra land, and his liege would gain a vassal. I hope that's not what'll happen in CK2 becuse it's highly unhistorical.

Nick

That's one thing that I hated from CK1, that a Count had to be, no matter what, vassal of a king or a duke, but he could not be vassal of another count... when Medieval history shows lots of counts with counts as their vassals.

I still say that titles should not be "layered" in order of importance, but attached to several cultural areas.

Of course, king is king, but count doesn't necessarily mean lower than duke. Maybe in 1300, Duke was indeed seen as more prestigious than Count, but in 1066, Duke was a way to say Count in other areas. That's why in Spain there are no dukes until the XIVth Century, while Northern France and Germany is filled with them. But Southern France has very few dukes as well. Cultural stuff, nothing to do with titles' order of importance.
 
Well the order of importance of titles has a cultural element; in regions where there were dukes and counts, dukes were of a higher rank. Furthermore a duke wasn't a way to say count in 1066 (at least in the areas with dukes), that was also a development later in the timeframe of the game.
Although I agree, that it should be possible for counts to have other counts as vassals.
 
Read the dev diary 2 for sure. Though it doesn't say anything specific about internal strife and war, I think a lot of dooms comments makes it obvious that internal warfare(civil wars, wouldn't call them that back then) will be very cool. There will be settlements in provinces, each with their own leader. And they can fight with each other and obviously rebel against you as well. Just imagine the fun if you are the king but are crazy/weak/still a child. You might be sitting in your castle watching your realm fight itself into a stupor, and trying to regain stability and control.

I said this in a thread about 'civil wars'. Now it just brings up a question that I would love Doomdark to answer if he sees this. In CK1, internal strife would lead to a fracturing of the realm where dukes and counts just break off from the kingdom, becoming independent states. This was alright I guess, but annoying. It would be much more awesome if the kingdom would stay together no matter how violent the internal strife gets. It would just be decimated by this with a lot of changes in leadership, and weak to external attack.
 
Nice update, thanks!
Will the number of settlements change during the game?
Can settlements change to another type?
Just what I wanted to know... :)
...A character only ever has one liege.
So, how will you deal with historical situations like:
a) The dukes of Burgundy, being a vassals of the kings of France in some lands and a vassals of the HRE in others?
b) A ruler (e.g. Swedish or Prussian) being king "at home" but vassal of the HRE in their German lands?
 
Last edited:
Will there be baronesses?

I hope titles will be gender specific. Lets hope.

I'm still rereading the thread and looking for whether or not these AI baronies will be hereditary for characters, and if these baronies are named.

I'd love to have a Baron/ness of Caernarfon, Baron/ness of Marionydd, and/or a Bishop of Bangor, all with in the County of Gwynedd!


I love this idea... it somewhat does sound like the baronies that Cool Matrix suggested though for his CK Clone. I don't know how alike they are, but he suggested having a sub-count ranking as well.