I wouldn't consider achievements a core feature of DW, certainly not 9/10 worth, and if you don't like the other features they're putting in, well, a lot of people do and they can't please everyone.
Divine Wind - Developer Diary #4
- Thread starter Besuchov
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I can only speak for myself. For me it seems that Paradox is drifting away from the old fanbase of Europa Universalis loving gamers to gain new customers with other preferences. The signs for me were the use of twitter, facebook, youtube, DLCs and now this "paradox connect" stuff. Sure for now we can choose not to go this way and ignore/disable this stuff, but it feels like the design preferences are shifting towards a gaming world I am not comfortable with. You may say that I'm conservative and old fashioned. That is true. But I always thought that Paradox is the last safe heaven for people like me. So these are my fears. As you can see it is not about disabling a specific feature as achievments, it is about the general development in paradox games.
Let us hope I am wrong.
Why is everyone so whiny in this thread? (sorry if you me saying this offends you, but some of you really sounds like this is the worst thing ever, come on...)
First of all, if you don't like the idea of achivements: just turn it off... No-one is forcing you to even think about them afterwards...
Second: Why is achievments an attack on the modding community? It sounds like 'everyone' is using mods. I'm pretty sure that the big majority plays without a mod, an those who do play with them will still be able to do that. Most of the AARs are played without mods... SO if you use mods, just continue as you have so far - if your playing without: I bet I can get more achivements than you
I for one thinks that achivements sounds like a good idea. I hope and think that it will make me try out new ways of playing EU3, letting me discover even more of the complexity of the game. Even though I like to set my own goals when i play EU3, I also like the idea of having other goals suggested to my by those who made the game.
My only fear with achivements is that to many of the will reward you not for being a good player, but for having enough time. Like "play games with all european powers" or "Have a unit in every province in the North America". EU3 achivements should reward you for improving your game and not for wasting time.
Looking forward to geting DW and start to get some challenging achivement. And hope you will tell us about a few more soon.
First of all, if you don't like the idea of achivements: just turn it off... No-one is forcing you to even think about them afterwards...
Second: Why is achievments an attack on the modding community? It sounds like 'everyone' is using mods. I'm pretty sure that the big majority plays without a mod, an those who do play with them will still be able to do that. Most of the AARs are played without mods... SO if you use mods, just continue as you have so far - if your playing without: I bet I can get more achivements than you
I for one thinks that achivements sounds like a good idea. I hope and think that it will make me try out new ways of playing EU3, letting me discover even more of the complexity of the game. Even though I like to set my own goals when i play EU3, I also like the idea of having other goals suggested to my by those who made the game.
My only fear with achivements is that to many of the will reward you not for being a good player, but for having enough time. Like "play games with all european powers" or "Have a unit in every province in the North America". EU3 achivements should reward you for improving your game and not for wasting time.
Looking forward to geting DW and start to get some challenging achivement. And hope you will tell us about a few more soon.
Allow me to join the "stop whining"-crowd. It's an added feature without any negative effect on existing features.
Hence, it is like everyone getting a white chocolate cookie for free. Even if you don't like white chocolate, you have to admit that getting that cookie is nicer than not getting a cookie at all, plus, all those that like white chocolate cookies are much happier now
PS: "is not overpowered" should be the new "can (not) into space".
Hence, it is like everyone getting a white chocolate cookie for free. Even if you don't like white chocolate, you have to admit that getting that cookie is nicer than not getting a cookie at all, plus, all those that like white chocolate cookies are much happier now
PS: "is not overpowered" should be the new "can (not) into space".
Last edited:
To Monsterfurby:
Internet Explorer is also a cookie for free. To some people, it is just an unreasonable and unwanted bundle reducing security and performance, motivated by market-cornering greed and information-collecting intrusiveness. Of course the parallel is not very fitting, but it may help in driving home the point: the key words are "unreasonable" and "unwanted".
Internet Explorer is also a cookie for free. To some people, it is just an unreasonable and unwanted bundle reducing security and performance, motivated by market-cornering greed and information-collecting intrusiveness. Of course the parallel is not very fitting, but it may help in driving home the point: the key words are "unreasonable" and "unwanted".
Hm. This is really the first time I read or hear anyone mentioning Internet Explorer of all things in the context of the privacy debate. Yes, it's an inferior piece of software, but it's still better than no browser for free.
I invoke Hanlon's Razor: “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
Anyway, unreasonable and unwanted are two not very accurate words. For one thing, unwanted refers to individual preference. No feature is entirely unwanted. I can imagine that there are several players out there who favor the inclusion of achievements, so this one is kind of out of the ballpark. And unreasonable, well... On what grounds? Unreasonable for what purpose? It certainly does not seem unreasonable from Paradox' standpoint, so what exactly is your argument AGAINST it? That they could have spent their development resources on something else instead? That they are spying on you? What is the main argument against this feature?
As I said, it's gimmicky and pointless, but it hurts no one and might even be mildly fun. So as I said, if they feel that they need to put achievements in - those certainly don't hurt my gaming experience.
Allow me to join the "stop whining"-crowd. It's an added feature without any negative effect on existing features.
Hence, it is like everyone getting a white chocolate cookie for free. Even if you don't like white chocolate, you have to admit that getting that cookie is nicer than not getting a cookie at all, plus, all those that like white chocolate cookies are much happier now
PS: "is not overpowered" should be the new "can (not) into space".
No, the free chocolate is we get the achievements in HTTT 4.1 final. I'm quite sure DW is not free.
As long as you can turn the notifications off entirely, this won't worsen the game actively.
With SSF4, I've lost matches due to an acheivement notification blocking the screen. I don't like it or find it worthwhile, but as long as the rest of the content is worthwhile (which is seems to be), it won't change my decision.
When are pre-orders going to be up on GG for DW anyways, I need to build up Blue Coins for something.
With SSF4, I've lost matches due to an acheivement notification blocking the screen. I don't like it or find it worthwhile, but as long as the rest of the content is worthwhile (which is seems to be), it won't change my decision.
When are pre-orders going to be up on GG for DW anyways, I need to build up Blue Coins for something.
I have a question regarding the achievements: Will we be able to make our own achievements, say for a MP-game? Independent of Paradox-Connect and saved only localy or in the savegame itself?
I was thinking like:
I was thinking like:
Last edited:
Achievements are nice, its not really a reason for me to buy an expansion, but its kinda fun. I'm hoping for more cultural-economic stuff to do tho, like others have said, this game is not supposed to be focused on war but it seems like thats really the only fun part about it so I end up turning into a warmonger even when I don't intend to.
People are getting worked up over achievements..really? There are so many other things you could be complaining about; but this is the one thing that really "gets you"? It is added content so there really is no reason to complain. Paradox isn't turning into Activision and I don't think they plan to.
It isn't like Divine Wind's only feature is achievements, they are just a bonus on top of everything else. And with every game Paradox releases we will see them keep adding content even after the first patch.
I seriously wonder what some of the employees at Paradox think when they read over these comments. They aren't adding achievements to force you to do anything- it is a fun feature and it will always be that. A lot of you are making it out to be more than it really is. They aren't selling out, they aren't forcing anything down your throat.
It isn't like Divine Wind's only feature is achievements, they are just a bonus on top of everything else. And with every game Paradox releases we will see them keep adding content even after the first patch.
I seriously wonder what some of the employees at Paradox think when they read over these comments. They aren't adding achievements to force you to do anything- it is a fun feature and it will always be that. A lot of you are making it out to be more than it really is. They aren't selling out, they aren't forcing anything down your throat.
Oh, I won't.
Missed point. Paradox are now implicitly saying that people should play the vanilla versions of their games, in order to unlock these achievements, rather than playing mods - either the player's own, or community ones.
Looking to the future, it's the change of emphasis, and apparent direction of marketing, that worries me.
Plus, this was not a DD about Divine Wind at all, really, was it? I'm sure we want to know more about the game, not the meta-game that Paradox' marketing department are trying to thrust down our throats...
I really don't see how that argument is valid. Are we going to imply that with each new feature we're "implicitly steering people away from certain parts of the game"? C'mon.
Here's the bottom line, and I know some people hate to hear it. Paradox is a company, a company that needs to make money. Morever, we publish and release other games (Magicka, Warband, Commander, Lionheart etc).
You might not care about those games and thats perfectly fine - we accept that. But what you have to accept is that those "other games" are a really important part of PDX business. Without games like warband and Majesty you wouldn't be getting the number of games or level of quality you're getting in the games you do care about.
If Paradox just had kept making games on our core franchises and hadn't expanded into other projects (ie, done stuff you don't care about) Victoria 2 might not have seen the light of the day. Also, you'd have have fewer EU games with less degree of polish. The internal teams enjoy a ridiculous amount of comfort compared to regular game studios. A privelige enjoyed by few out there such as Blizzard and Valve to name a few).
They enjoy this luxury because Paradox can afford it. This enables them to take their time and really spend love and effort on the games. A big reason why they turn out so great (Victoria 2 tutorials is a great example).
So being so negative about A: a feature that isn't interesting to you and B: is OPTIONAL isn't helping.
In fact, Achievements could (will!) be really great for Paradox, which in extension is GREAT for you.
I wasn't around when the forum icons were introduced, but they are really similar to Achievements, they have no actual game impact and are entirely optional, but people love them anyway. What's not to say achievements will be equally successful?
steveh11 and Phelan: Paradox is not drifting away or abandoning the old fan base! We promise! Liken it to remodeling the house and adding new rooms. Sure the house will look different when you walk in, but you're room is still there, and it'll look (and smell) the same. You'll still find your games, toys and weird stuff under your bed. You still have your safe haven, it's just in a bigger house with other people's safe havens.
Finally, what we're launching with Divine Wind is just the very first version of it. It will only improve as we go along. Achievements for mods? Multiplayer achievements? User designed achievements? all great ideas, we'll take those to heart and see if we can cram'em into the system in the next version.
Johan posted the first achievement in another thread yesterday and it sparked som more responses and questions. I'm going to post a thread about the design process and guiding philosophies so you guys understand our reasoning a bit more.
Also, great to see more people voice moderate opinions on achievements.
/s
Does that mean that "Be the first to colonize the new world" and "sweden isn't overpowered" (which we only know from a screenshot) won't be in the final list?
Also, could you tell us something about how you plan to add new achievements? Will there only be 50 released with DW, and thats it - or will you now and then add new achievements for eu3?
Last edited:
i know not exactly on topic but what are your thoughts on this ? :
I know that there is no battlenet and we don't need stupid cd keys to play the game but you know, EU3 is (still) very easy to modify .
I know that there is no battlenet and we don't need stupid cd keys to play the game but you know, EU3 is (still) very easy to modify .
Chuckle. One of the very nice things about Paradox forums, as distinct from many, many other parts of the Wild West that is the internet, is that we manage to stay away from the flames and puerile name-calling here. <Shrug> I thought my opinions were voiced moderately - obviously they're different to yours, but I try to express myself with moderation and a soupcon of humour.
I'll look for Johan's post (anyone got a link they can throw me?) and I look forward to hearing more about the design process. But I stand by my opinions for the moment, and I suggest that as this thread has been diverted away from DW by the controversy that we take it to another venue. You have a thread open in "General Discussion" I believe.
Thank you for your long answer. Its good to know that Paradox really cares about his fans and that our fears are taken seriously. I can live with the bigger house, as long as I can sit with my fellow old guards before the chimney and feel comfortable. And maybe some loud (bragging) childs runnig around in the house could cheer us up on a could autumn day...