All New Fatherland--Recruitment Thread

[ozman2]

Came up with the following fictional names

Mach 2.5 Fighter-Bomber
MODEL_GER_12_7;RLM 'Jagdbomber-X'

Mach 2.5-3 Interceptor
MODEL_GER_13_9;RLM 'Abfangjäger-X'

Supersonic attack fighters (successors to tactical bombers)
MODEL_GER_15_8;RLM 'Sturmvogel'
MODEL_GER_15_9;RLM 'Sturmvogel-2'

Gunship equivalents
MODEL_GER_17_8;RLM 'König Monster'
MODEL_GER_17_9;RLM 'König Monster-2'

Advanced naval bombers
MODEL_GER_16_5;RLM 'Seegeier'
MODEL_GER_16_6;RLM 'Seegeier-2'
MODEL_GER_16_7;RLM 'Seegeier-3'


I agree with the downgrade of Messerschmitt P.1111 to 15_7 as it was not supersonic.

Any better ideas or perhaps names for the at least the first of the advanced naval bombers?

 

[Stahlwolf]

Came up with the following fictional names

Mach 2.5 Fighter-Bomber
MODEL_GER_12_7;RLM 'Jagdbomber-X'

Mach 2.5-3 Interceptor
MODEL_GER_13_9;RLM 'Abfangjäger-X'

Supersonic attack fighters (successors to tactical bombers)
MODEL_GER_15_8;RLM 'Sturmvogel'
MODEL_GER_15_9;RLM 'Sturmvogel-2'

Gunship equivalents
MODEL_GER_17_8;RLM 'König Monster'
MODEL_GER_17_9;RLM 'König Monster-2'

Advanced naval bombers
MODEL_GER_16_5;RLM 'Seegeier'
MODEL_GER_16_6;RLM 'Seegeier-2'
MODEL_GER_16_7;RLM 'Seegeier-3'

So you really wanna go with possible project names by the RLM?
The RLM was just the institution which recognized a need for some specific new aircraft, stated the specific requirements and chose the company who would eventually win the contract, after comparing all the proposals.
But they rarley had anything to do with the actual name of the plane which entered service with the Luftwaffe.
So, IMO this idea of calling the fictional German aircrafts "RLM xyz" is actually not a very good one. Absolutely no offense intended.
Just something for you to think about.

Just a minor correction: König Monster --> Königsmonster (although I would go with a different name. I just heard that word the first time in my life )

 

[ozman2]

So you really wanna go with possible project names by the RLM?
The RLM was just the institution which recognized a need for some specific new aircraft, stated the specific requirements and chose the company who would eventually win the contract, after comparing all the proposals.
But they rarley had anything to do with the actual name of the plane which entered service with the Luftwaffe.
So, IMO this idea of calling the fictional German aircrafts "RLM xyz" is actually not a very good one. Absolutely no offense intended.
Just something for you to think about.

Just a minor correction: König Monster --> Königsmonster (although I would go with a different name. I just heard that word the first time in my life )

Well I'll get opinions for a little while. They're really "project X" type names, since we have no idea who would actually build the planes. The appearance would probably be similar to American planes, since some of the German designers (especially Alexander Lippisch who I think was the most able), so another idea is to use the American model numbers and an arbitrary German manufacturer, or the name of the most likely designer. (I'm sure it would be Lippisch for all the interceptors for example). I'm not really fond of using "next generation" names unless there's some indication as to what they might be (for example the Lippisch P13 was supersonic-capable according to specs and an article in Popular Mechanics), and its successors had designations up to DM-4. (website Luft 46). Königsmonster actually comes from a Japanese anime series "Macross Frontier" but the description fits what a gunship (like the AC-130) does so well, "large-scale variable bomber with overwhelming firepower. Despite the heavy armoring and high defensive capabilities, the unit is heavy and restricted in movement. Strategic use of the 4 rail guns and massive payload is done in cooperation with other variable fighters." The "Sturmvogel" is also referred to by the series, but it originated with Hitler's ideas of an attack plane for the war in France. I could also easily see the Germans using the name 'Valkyrie' for one of their planes but the Americans got the name in real life for the B-70 project.

Here are some ships:
MODEL_GER_23_8;Saalwächter-class;Saalwächter-class;Classe Saalwächter;Saalwächter-class;Saalwächter-Klasse;Saalwächter-Klasse;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_25_9;Bremen-class;Bremen-class;Bremen-class;Bremen-class;Bremen-Klasse;Bremen-Klasse;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_26_8;Hindenburg-class;Hindenburg-class;Classe Hindenburg;Hindenburg-class;Hindenburg-Klasse;Hindenburg-Klasse;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_26_9;Hitler-class;Hitler-class;Classe Hitler;Hitler-class;Hitler-Klasse;Hitler-Klasse;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_28_6;Type 205-class;Type 205-class;Type 205-class;Type 205-class;Type 205-Klasse;Type 205-Klasse;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_28_7;Type 206-class;Type 206-class;Type 206-class;Type 206-class;Type 206-Klasse;Type 206-Klasse;;;;;x

I'm not so sure about Raeder class because he was still alive in 1960 and I think it unlikely that he would have a ship class named after himself while still alive.
'Hindenburg' might also be a good name for a gunship (the namesake Zeppelin destroyed in 1938)

 

[Stahlwolf]

Yeah, 'Sturmvogel' is certainly an excellent choice for a name of a fictional 3rd Reich aircraft.

Regarding your Lippisch-theory, you seem to forget one thing... Lippisch P13 is the designation of Lippisch's aircraft design, but I would actually bet a lot of money, that the very same aircraft, once entered sevice with the Luftwaffe, would have a completely different designation. Indicator for that thesis would be the 'Horten H IX', probably better known as 'Gotha Go 229'.
The Horten brothers had the same assignment as Lippisch. They came up with revolutionary concepts, which were evaluated by the RLM. If that specific concept proved to be worth building, an actual aircraft manufacurer was contracted to produce the new aircraft for the Luftwaffe.
But those aircrafts always got their offical designations based on the German naming pattern.

Usually every aircraft had the name of the manufacturer, followed by a two letter tag, which was indicater for the developer or manufacturer (best example would be the aircrafts, developed by Kurt Tank, who was working for Focke-Wulf. He was responsible for the creation of the Fock-Wulf Ta 152 or Ta 183). Eventually every German aircraft model received a number, which was unique. That means, you won't find two different aircraft models which share the same number. Additionally, some (not all of them) of these aircrafts also received some kind of a nick name, f.e. 'Würger' or 'Schwalbe' or whatever.

So IMO, it is most logic to follow that pattern, when we talk about fictional aircraft designations for the 3rd Reich.

 

[ozman2]

Well we have no idea what the number would be and can only guess at the ultimate manufacturer (then again one person might design the plane and the contract might go to somebody else). And you're right--it might not have the manufacturer's number at all--but we have no idea what it might end up with so the manufacturer's number is still the best choice. I like the idea of going with the drawing board plans if they meet specs or are a likely followup (with some documentation) otherwise fictional and descriptive names without a number.
How about some carrier names following the Graf Zeppelin?
Were any planes suitable as naval (patrol/torpedo) bomber? They need to be turboprop or mixed jet/propeller driven (like some US models) but they don't need to be fast--just long range.

Another idea for the gunships might be 'Russlandbomber'.

 

[Stahlwolf]

Well we have no idea what the number would be and can only guess at the ultimate manufacturer (then again one person might design the plane and the contract might go to somebody else). And you're right--it might not have the manufacturer's number at all--but we have no idea what it might end up with so the manufacturer's number is still the best choice. I like the idea of going with the drawing board plans if they meet specs or are a likely followup (with some documentation) otherwise fictional and descriptive names without a number.

Well, that is the point, when we talk about fictional model names for an ahistorical scenario, isn't it?
Somebody has to find likely names for hypothetical war gear which should continue the naming pattern, used by the Nazis before the timeline went ahistorical. Well, at least, that's what I did with my game.

How about some carrier names following the Graf Zeppelin?

Well, at least in modern terms a carrier is a symbol for power and prestige. When we talk about a victorious 3rd Reich, you can certainly bet whatever you like, that at some point they would have build a modern aircraft carrier which carries the name of (a probably dead at that time) Adolf Hitler. I think, in my game the nuclear aircraft carrier is called "Hitler-class".
Regarding the models that lead up to the nuclear carrier, I would just go with the names that can be found in the unitnames.csv, such as "Friedrich der Große-class", "Clausewitz-class", "Wagner-class" or "Germania-class".
Hm, that last one should probably be a modern era carrier too, cause such a name would not have been chosen lightly, cause that would had been in fact a pretty powerful/prestigious name to the Nazis.

Were any planes suitable as naval (patrol/torpedo) bomber? They need to be turboprop or mixed jet/propeller driven (like some US models) but they don't need to be fast--just long range.

None that I know of. Those "revolutionary" aircraft designs were all intended to take more important roles as interceptor, intercontinental bomber or whatsoever.

Another idea for the gunships might be 'Russlandbomber'.

Nah...
I know you got that idea thanks to the 'Amerikabomber". But... Project "Amerikabomber" got its name thanks to its intended purpose.
In that case, its purpose was to master the distance between the Greater Reich and the US. Of course it should also be able to fly back after its "package was delivered".
I can't see any similar purpose, which could be connected to the name "Russlandbomber". At least not, if it is a Gunship we're talkin' about.

 

[ozman2]

Well the nameing scheme as I understand it is:
1)Contracted manufacturer
2)Designers initials or first two letters of last name
3)RLM number
4)(sometimes) descriptive name
The first three are unknown for fictional planes, and only the 4th can be surmised. Anyway came up with escort carrier names and carrier names. And it sounds like the gunships will be Königmonster unless someone comes up with a better name.

MODEL_GER_26_3;Otto Lilienthal-class
MODEL_GER_26_4;Friedrich der Große-class
MODEL_GER_26_5;Clausewitz-class
MODEL_GER_26_6;Richthofen-class
MODEL_GER_26_7;Hindenburg-class
MODEL_GER_26_8;Hermann Göring-class
MODEL_GER_26_9;Hitler-class
MODEL_GER_27_0;Weser-class
MODEL_GER_27_1;Kiel-class
MODEL_GER_27_2;Rostock-class
MODEL_GER_27_3;Danzig-class
MODEL_GER_27_4;Königsberg-class
MODEL_GER_27_5;Memel-class
MODEL_GER_27_6;Großdeutschland-class
MODEL_GER_27_7;Sommerfeld-class (that's the nuclear model)

 

[Stahlwolf]

Well the nameing scheme as I understand it is:
1)Contracted manufacturer
2)Designers initials or first two letters of last name
3)RLM number
4)(sometimes) descriptive name

Well, your understanding is correct.
Although 2) was not always the case. F.e. some of Kurt Tanks earlier designs were referred to as the usual "Fw" for Focke Wulf.
Dunno exactly why, maybe because he was not that "famous" in the beginning. I think he was just some usual employee at that time. Later, he became one of the rising stars in German aircraft industries, like the Hortens or Lippisch.

And it sounds like the gunships will be Königmonster unless someone comes up with a better name.

What about "Junkers Ju 256 'Orkan/Sturmwind/Bussard/Falke/Habicht'?

MODEL_GER_26_3;Otto Lilienthal-class
MODEL_GER_26_4;Friedrich der Große-class
MODEL_GER_26_5;Clausewitz-class
MODEL_GER_26_6;Richthofen-class
MODEL_GER_26_7;Hindenburg-class
MODEL_GER_26_8;Hermann Göring-class
MODEL_GER_26_9;Hitler-class
MODEL_GER_27_0;Weser-class
MODEL_GER_27_1;Kiel-class
MODEL_GER_27_2;Rostock-class
MODEL_GER_27_3;Danzig-class
MODEL_GER_27_4;Königsberg-class
MODEL_GER_27_5;Memel-class
MODEL_GER_27_6;Großdeutschland-class
MODEL_GER_27_7;Sommerfeld-class (that's the nuclear model)

Sounds good to me.

 

[ozman2]

Junkers is certainly a possible manufacturer. What the Americans did (and Germans might have done also) was to convert a military transport or obsolete civilian airliner to a gunship. True purpose built aircraft were not built until the 70s (US A-10 Warthog and Soviet Sukhoi Frogfoot)

A large bird of prey sounds good-Habicht for the Gunships.

 

[Stahlwolf]

Well, in that case, we could probably just take the Transall C-160 and modifiy its designation, I guess...
Although we know, that there would not be a Transall, if the 3rd Reich would have survived '44/45

 

[unmerged(86439)]

How about using a FW-200 or FW-300 in the Transalls place? Or rather the Arado Ar 232?

 

[unmerged(36449)]

uhmmmmm... where's the download link?

 

[von_Ysselstein]

uhmmmmm... where's the download link?

bump

 

[Samilou]

bump

It is in Nomonhan's signature.

 

[ozman2]

I'm not going to be that active with HOI2 any more. Fatherland is included in the Cold War Extension (Fatherland is an integrated part and dependent on it), which is in my sig. Mediafire generally works better than Rapidshare these days.
See my Cold War Extension thread for more details. At the end I posted instructions on those wishing to continue development.
Sincerely and good luck,
nomonhan

 

[Samilou]

I'm not going to be that active with HOI2 any more. Fatherland is included in the Cold War Extension (Fatherland is an integrated part and dependent on it), which is in my sig. Mediafire generally works better than Rapidshare these days.
See my Cold War Extension thread for more details. At the end I posted instructions on those wishing to continue development.
Sincerely and good luck,
nomonhan

I am very happy to see you are alive.

Thank you for everything.

 

[unmerged(184991)]

Ummmm hi, i wanna play fatherland but for AOD, can someone make an aod version ? thanks

 

[Samilou]

Ummmm hi, i wanna play fatherland but for AOD, can someone make an aod version ? thanks

I am working on one right now. But don't expect anything remotely close to perfection. It is progressing slow too, but I've made it a school project so it will have to be done before spring next year, or I will fail that course.

 

[erica]

Have this mod finished?

 

[ozman2]

For HOI2, I do not plan to develop the mod at this point. It works for the first few years but tends to get into trouble about 1956. If the Vietnam events are eliminated it could go further. It's still useful for things like plotting PuYi's dream or the comeback of the Soviet bear, etc. Further development will take place on the AoD platform and I'm going to let Samilou give his ideas for most of the enhancement.