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Winter Teaser #5 - Mendicant Mystics Making a Mess

Welcome comrades! We’ve not got anything major on the docket for the day’s dev diary, so we’ll be taking a little peak at a cultural tradition that’s dear to my heart instead. Just to whet the appetite for more content a little.

001.PNG


Mendicant Mystics is a moderately uncommon tradition, one that synergises well with faiths that already boost the mystic lifestyle. Moreover, though, there’s something that just _speaks_ to me, personally, about the idea of impassioned people wandering the world, sharing their wisdom and message.

Consequently, I’ve spruced it up a little bit, adding some flavour to the idea of living in a culture where wandering know-it-all is a valid career choice. To reflect this, the following events will all _try_ to grab characters from the pool first, so wandering characters of such a culture are often at risk of deciding to become a mystic once they hit the road, and if a mystic breaks in to annoy you once, there’s every chance the same mystic might come knocking a second time down the line...

002.PNG


After all, who better than a stranger covered in twigs and mud to teach your children some valuable life lessons?

003.PNG


Or, indeed, yourself.

004.PNG


Really, they’re altruists...

005.PNG


… of course, for some folks, the wandering may get too much eventually.

006.PNG


Hmmm, can’t really put my finger on why I like the idea of mendicant mystics so much. Something about them just seems delightfully familiar to me, I guess. Ah well.

Thanks for reading folks, and we’ll see you next dev diary!
 
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I can see this partnering well with the Literalism/Legalism/Esotericism combo for someone running "scholarly mystic" dynastic clans.

On random conversions, maybe the events specifically about religious conversion, like the Kristjani one above, could only occur in areas surrounding a religion with the mendicant preachers tenet (like Kristjani in-game) that overlaps a culture with mendicant mystics (which I imagine that culture will have). It would be a nice way to reduce it should people feel it's too much otherwise.

Edit: Fixed a bit. Also, I wish the Literalism tenet wasn't stuck to Abrahamism. It does exist in Theravada, which is nice.
 
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Do you have an example in mind of a real faith that spread in this way? I can think of examples where a ruler was converted by a preacher sent by a neighboring state, but I'm not familiar with any cases where a wandering preacher managed to convert a ruler.
First one that comes to mind is it's how Buddhism spread in Central Asia. But also it just reflects the general concept of religion spreading through trade networks and general missionary-driven proselytization.
 
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First one that comes to mind is it's how Buddhism spread in Central Asia. But also it just reflects the general concept of religion spreading through trade networks and general missionary-driven proselytization.
But these are missionaries, patronized by powerful Buddhist states like the Wei dynasty, not wandering mendicants without state backing like the guy in the event.
 
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But these are missionaries, patronized by powerful Buddhist states like the Wei dynasty, not wandering mendicants without state backing like the guy in the event.
You've got it backwards. I'm not talking about it spreading from China, I'm talking about its spread from India through Central Asia that ultimately led to its spread to China.
 
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Hopefully not all of these mendicant characters are painted as foolish loons. It would be nice if there were characters following this lifestyle that actually seem enlightened in some way and not all following a strawman pattern. The events in this preview seem a bit unidirectional in this regard.
 
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You've got it backwards. I'm not talking about it spreading from China, I'm talking about its spread from India through Central Asia that ultimately led to its spread to China.
Oh, that's earlier than I thought you were talking about (we're getting pretty far afield from CK3's time period). But I still think that spread was state-driven, with organized missionary expeditions from the Kushan empire. It's not really an example of what we see in this event.

I would be happy to see a return of the mechanic we had in CK2, where rulers could sponsor missionaries to neighboring realms. That was an interesting and interactive mechanic driven by important characters. This event is just randomly generated characters appearing from the void to convert a ruler to a religion that has no power or influence.

If we need another mechanic to convert rulers to local religions (I'm not sure we do - characters can convert freely, and it's just a matter of writing reasonable AI logic to do so), I'd rather it be a more involved process. Something where vassals and/or councillors can attempt to sway the would-be convert king, something that interacts with the populace of the counties the religion is coming from.

Just having a guy show up at your door one day and the next day you're a heretic is troubling. It makes an already random world feel even more random.
 
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Hopefully not all of these mendicant characters are painted as foolish loons. It would be nice if there were characters following this lifestyle that actually seem enlightened in some way and not all following a strawman pattern. The events in this preview seem a bit unidirectional in this regard.
It would also be interesting to have some be presented as accompanying a larger party, like a trade caravan or a small envoy delegation or mercenary band passing through to give them more variety.
 
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Oh, that's earlier than I thought you were talking about (we're getting pretty far afield from CK3's time period). But I still think that spread was state-driven, with organized missionary expeditions from the Kushan empire. It's not really an example of what we see in this event.

I would be happy to see a return of the mechanic we had in CK2, where rulers could sponsor missionaries to neighboring realms. That was an interesting and interactive mechanic driven by important characters. This event is just randomly generated characters appearing from the void to convert a ruler to a religion that has no power or influence.

If we need another mechanic to convert rulers to local religions (I'm not sure we do - characters can convert freely, and it's just a matter of writing reasonable AI logic to do so), I'd rather it be a more involved process. Something where vassals and/or councillors can attempt to sway the would-be convert king, something that interacts with the populace of the counties the religion is coming from.

Just having a guy show up at your door one day and the next day you're a heretic is troubling. It makes an already random world feel even more random.
It tended to be more trade driven than state driven, especially along the Silk Routes. And was still that way even a fair ways into the CK time period though most of it was two or three centuries beforehand, true. And speaking more generally, proselytizing missionaries accompanying merchants or trade delegations or even just becoming missionaries as a way of getting out from a disagreeable ruler in their homeland would cause people to strike out on their own to convert other places, or trying to become wealthy or gain protection by currying favor with foreign rulers. Additionally, it was in fact the rulers who converted usually before the people because it served as a way of getting out from under the local religious leadership and establishing a new vein of legitimacy and control through adopting a new faith that the local ruler could more easily control its figureheads, traditions, and practices. So I don't really see anything wrong with an event for a mystic from a culture that tends toward such customs coming through your court and maybe convincing a ruler do adopt the religion along the way.
 
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It tended to be more trade driven than state driven, especially along the Silk Routes. And was still that way even a fair ways into the CK time period though most of it was two or three centuries beforehand, true. And speaking more generally, proselytizing missionaries accompanying merchants or trade delegations or even just becoming missionaries as a way of getting out from a disagreeable ruler in their homeland would cause people to strike out on their own to convert other places, or trying to become wealthy or gain protection by currying favor with foreign rulers. Additionally, it was in fact the rulers who converted usually before the people because it served as a way of getting out from under the local religious leadership and establishing a new vein of legitimacy and control through adopting a new faith that the local ruler could more easily control its figureheads, traditions, and practices. So I don't really see anything wrong with an event for a mystic from a culture that tends toward such customs coming through your court and maybe convincing a ruler do adopt the religion along the way.
Somehow trade-driven missionaries seeking to become wealthy feel like the opposite of mendicants to me. While Buddhist missionaries might travel with trade caravans and along trade routes, they were still patronized by powerful Buddhist states that drove the spread. It wasn't just a small heretic community that send out a lone wanderer to convert a king.

I'd be very happy to see a mechanic that spreads religion via trade systems - that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about, where religious change is driven by the state of the world and interaction between realms. But that's not what this event is. This is just a random conversion that occurs in a vacuum.
 
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Do you have an example in mind of a real faith that spread in this way? I can think of examples where a ruler was converted by a preacher sent by a neighboring state, but I'm not familiar with any cases where a wandering preacher managed to convert a ruler.
Christianity itself has a lot of this, I mean the kingdom of Armenia converted because a preacher refused to pray to pagan gods, the king imprisioned him and the the king goes mad for some time, and then the king converted to Christianity.
 
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Sounds as if the Devs pooled their frustration with certain individuals that are part of the wider community and rebranded them mystics :)
 
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But these are missionaries, patronized by powerful Buddhist states like the Wei dynasty, not wandering mendicants without state backing like the guy in the event.

I think the Hiberno-Scottish mission would be very similar to what is envisioned in game. Wandering monks (peregrinati) circulating the continent, converting kings and their subjects but under no central authority.

 
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Torredebelem

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Are these events made for just this particular cultural tradition or all cultural traditions have their own pool of events?

If covered indepth to all cultural traditions this is a great addition to the game. If the later and these events were added casuistically, it's obviously ok as more events are always welcome, but not too relevant in the great scheme of the whole gameplay.
 

Torredebelem

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So you're saying if I pick this trait I get a bunch of pop ups which I cannot disable through notification settings which dont exist in CK3? More over if I have ANY of these culture people in my empire I will get pop ups from their cultural wandering goons meaning the amount of pop ups which I cannot avoid has increased tremendously?
While mechanics are the skeleton of the game, events are the meat of it.

Written by someone who would love to have CK2 style notifications implemented, the events given by the developer in this DD are not "notifications" by any forms or means. They provide ways to tell an emergent story the player can affect - through the option he/she picks - but never control - through the RNG involved in receiving such events and the consequences of his/her choices in the future.
 
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Riamus

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This event is just randomly generated characters appearing from the void to convert a ruler to a religion that has no power or influence.
Just to clarify, these aren't usually going to be randomly generated characters, but characters already in the game that are taken whenever possible from a pool of appropriate characters and can reappear later.

As to the rest, my main issue with rulers converting is only when I have to constantly deal with it with my vassals. In CK2, it got really annoying to have vassals converting constantly. I eventually had to turn off the secret religion option because it seemed that every single vassal would want to convert to something else. If we are just talking about an event that may randomly occur a limited amount in a game, I'm actually okay with that even if it's ahistorical.

My main interest in this is that these aren't generated characters, but ones already in the game and that they can come back again later. This shows a step in the right direction with events, where the game actually attempts to pick valid characters and tie events to one another to create a coherent story instead of it all being completely random. Granted, there is a long way to go in this regard, but if they are doing it with this, there's hope they'll continue to move in this direction.
 
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