Winter Teaser #3 - Cultural Traditions

[Vityviktor]

Also, I'm not sure why this thing isn't "fixed" yet.

Why is the County of Castelo Branco Asturleonese instead of Galician?

 

[azarada]

Hello and welcome to another winter teaser

In this short teaser today I bring you more cultural traditions as well as previews of some cultures we haven’t shown you before.

Chanson De Geste
View attachment 786090​

In some cases cultural traditions are regional variants on more generically available one. Instead of the more widely available Martial Admiration tradition that we’ve shown previously the cultures that have a Frankish heritage will have access to the Chanson de Geste tradition. This both grants access to the Valets innovation when the Late Medieval era comes around and highlights the role of troubadours in the French region.

Performative Honor
View attachment 786093​

For those that have Flavor Pack 1 the Shield Maiden related content is now connected to a new cultural tradition called Performative Honor, which is available for cultures of the North Germanic Heritage.

Persian Culture
View attachment 786105​

One of the traditions of Persian culture highlights the prevalence of philosophical thought among its members, another gives access to a royal gardener court position.

Butr Culture
View attachment 786107​

Cultures with a Berber heritage and a presence in desert or dry lands will have access to the Desert Ribats tradition, which unlocks the Mulathamun Man at arms type among other things.

Catalan Culture
View attachment 786108​

Maritime Mercantilism is a tradition that makes coastal holdings more useful to a culture, as seen here in the lineup of Catalan Traditions.

Cisalpine Culture
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Any culture that has the Roman culture somewhere in its ancestry can adopt the Republican Legacy tradition which is a special version of the more generally available Parochialism cultural tradition. This highlights the special Republican heritage in the italic sphere and will let you create a number of Republican vassals out of your counts who will become overseers, or Podestàs.

Mongol Culture
View attachment 786110​

The Steppe Tolerance tradition highlights that for some cultures what your subjects believe was not as important as it was for others…



And that was all for this short winter teaser. These are some of my personal favorite traditions in the update, I hope you found them as interesting as I do!

Is any part of this coming into the base game?

 

[TempestM]

Is any part of this coming into the base game?

All of it. Read FAQ

 

[tsr-aph]

Given the way that Performative Honour is written, can we assume that if you have a female-dominated religion, men can gain the title "Shieldmaiden", or will you add a new localisation for male Shieldmaidens?

 

[TempestM]

Given the way that Performative Honour is written, can we assume that if you have a female-dominated religion, men can gain the title "Shieldmaiden", or will you add a new localisation for male Shieldmaidens?

"Femboy Vikings"

There's already a male version, Shieldswain

 

[Von Lauenburg]

There seem to be a lot of mechanics, incentivizing culture and faith change (on top of it being modular by nature).
Are there any cultural traditions that incentivize the opposite?
French and italians, for instance, could get bonus for keeping Catholicism and not converting to cannibal popes, etc.

 

[ikki]

This bit make so little sense. Why I am as a viking in Sicily can go duel some adulterer-ruler in Scandinavia?? Why is this a feature? If I'm not their liege and have the same rank, have no relation to the victim, why would I be the judge of them?

View attachment 788023

You want tyo be the viking that killed 1000 men?

 

[SMiki Lorebringer]

I just had an idea that I'm curious how feasible for modding it would be, since while cool might be too in the weeds for official development. But looking at the cultural descriptions, I finally figured out what the trigger for the "Vulgar" language is - it's denoting that the language is part of a diverged or hybrid culture and not part of its "original" culture anymore. So now, I'm thinking it would be very cool if when you diverged or hybridized cultures with vulgar languages, you could have it speak a new "original" language (probably named after the new culture) instead of keeping one of the vulgar languages. Even though I know languages are supposed to represent broader language groups, it would still help a lot to represent the emergence of the beginning of modern languages around this time, and would be a neat thing to have combined with the court languages. Having it require a vulgar language to create a new original language would also help to stop new languages from popping up everywhere.

Interesting, I thought thought they initially planned that no new languages would pop up during the gameplay. So now every time you merge two cultures, the "Vulgar" adjective is added before the language's name?

Edit: I'm not making a statement, I'm just asking, no reason to give me the painful Disagree reacts

 

[Prometheus_1]

Hello and welcome to another winter teaser

In this short teaser today I bring you more cultural traditions as well as previews of some cultures we haven’t shown you before.

Chanson De Geste
View attachment 786090​

In some cases cultural traditions are regional variants on more generically available one. Instead of the more widely available Martial Admiration tradition that we’ve shown previously the cultures that have a Frankish heritage will have access to the Chanson de Geste tradition. This both grants access to the Valets innovation when the Late Medieval era comes around and highlights the role of troubadours in the French region.

Performative Honor
View attachment 786093​

For those that have Flavor Pack 1 the Shield Maiden related content is now connected to a new cultural tradition called Performative Honor, which is available for cultures of the North Germanic Heritage.

Persian Culture
View attachment 786105​

One of the traditions of Persian culture highlights the prevalence of philosophical thought among its members, another gives access to a royal gardener court position.

Butr Culture
View attachment 786107​

Cultures with a Berber heritage and a presence in desert or dry lands will have access to the Desert Ribats tradition, which unlocks the Mulathamun Man at arms type among other things.

Catalan Culture
View attachment 786108​

Maritime Mercantilism is a tradition that makes coastal holdings more useful to a culture, as seen here in the lineup of Catalan Traditions.

Cisalpine Culture
View attachment 786109​

Any culture that has the Roman culture somewhere in its ancestry can adopt the Republican Legacy tradition which is a special version of the more generally available Parochialism cultural tradition. This highlights the special Republican heritage in the italic sphere and will let you create a number of Republican vassals out of your counts who will become overseers, or Podestàs.

Mongol Culture
View attachment 786110​

The Steppe Tolerance tradition highlights that for some cultures what your subjects believe was not as important as it was for others…



And that was all for this short winter teaser. These are some of my personal favorite traditions in the update, I hope you found them as interesting as I do!

As Italian I never heard of cisalpine culture as it never exhisted! There is only one Italian culture common to both north and south.

 

[Jayvee94]

As Italian I never heard of cisalpine culture as it never existed! There is only one Italian culture common to both north and south.

Citizens in the Middle Age Italy may have identified themselves as their more local culture. (As the North Italians are now. So, I've heard)

There are the North Italian Principalities in the HRE, The Papal States, Sicily/Naples and Sardinia.

It may not be actually called Cisalpine but the North Italians have a shared culture with the some parts of the former Burgundy (notably Savoy who eventually unified Italy).

 

[grommile]

As Italian I never heard of cisalpine culture as it never exhisted!

There exists a subfamily of Romance called "Gallo-Italic" (Romagnol, Lombard, Piedmontese, Emilian, and Ligurian), spoken in northern Italy, which is also sometimes called "Cisalpine". That's probably where Paradox got the name from.

As for the notion that your country has only one culture, I absolutely do not believe you, either now or a thousand years ago – just like I wouldn't believe a German who said the same thing about their country.

 

[Prometheus_1]

Citizens in the Middle Age Italy may have identified themselves as their more local culture. (As the North Italians are now. So, I've heard)

There are the North Italian Principalities in the HRE, The Papal States, Sicily/Naples and Sardinia.

It may not be actually called Cisalpine but the North Italians have a shared culture with the some parts of the former Burgundy (notably Savoy who eventually unified Italy).

Its not like that , already in 1300 Italian culture was perceived as one clearly recognizeable by reading Dante too.

 

[Prometheus_1]

There exists a subfamily of Romance called "Gallo-Italic" (Romagnol, Lombard, Piedmontese, Emilian, and Ligurian), spoken in northern Italy, which is also sometimes called "Cisalpine". That's probably where Paradox got the name from.

As for the notion that your country has only one culture, I absolutely do not believe you, either now or a thousand years ago – just like I wouldn't believe a German who said the same thing about their country.

You may not believe me but you can believe experts on geopolitics ant antropologists ?
If you can understand Italian this might be informative for you...

L’INSOSPETTABILE OMOGENEITÀ DEGLI ITALIANI - Limes

1. Sebbene ne siano ignari, gli italiani hanno nell’omogeneità la loro caratteristica più rilevante. Nonostante rivendichino una parcellizzata alterità, hanno nell’uniformità culturale la loro dimensione più strategica. Gli abitanti del Bel Paese denotano evidenti particolarità di matrice...

www.limesonline.com

L’Italia esiste, ma gli italiani non lo sanno - Limes

Gentile Direttore, è stato per puro caso che mi sono imbattuto nell’invito della vostra rivista. Certe riflessioni sul tema da voi proposto le vado tuttavia facendo da circa vent’anni. Conservo un vivido ricordo di una conversazione del 1987 con un amico milanese, durante una colazione a casa...

www.limesonline.com

Limes is the most acredited Italian journal of geopolitical studies.
The Italian cultural ant ethnic omogeneity its pretty solid and uncomparable to the exhisting more fractured and diversified realities of other countries like Germany, Spain or England, France acquired a better omogeneity due to forced standardization of the culture among centuries apart in Corsica and oversea territories.

 

[grommile]

The Italian cultural ant ethnic omogeneity its pretty solid

And yet Lega Nord existed in its original form.

 

[Prometheus_1]

And yet Lega Nord existed in its original form.

Lega nord ceased to exhist time ago also because was just a political protest party and not an expression of any cultural exhisting ancestral or real identity ... also considering that many of nord inhabitants nowday come from the south, they bluffed for an impossible secession to cut the more industrialized north from the more agricultural south just for terms of endemic problem still unresolved of the southern regions that remained less industrialized and developed than north and represent a burden to economy .

 

[IndigoRage]

And yet Lega Nord existed in its original form.

I've seen a lot of variation between Italians on this. I've known Italians who will mention that in the north they have languages that basically only populate a small valley and there'll be a different language and slightly different identity in the next valley over. On the other side a lot of "The micro-second someone wrote in Florentine the Italian nation was born" and "people speaking dialects are wrong".

 

[Prometheus_1]

I've seen a lot of variation between Italians on this. I've known Italians who will mention that in the north they have languages that basically only populate a small valley and there'll be a different language and slightly different identity in the next valley over. On the other side a lot of "The micro-second someone wrote in Florentine the Italian nation was born" and "people speaking dialects are wrong".

Those are dialects not languages! Though many are or were almoust on the verge of becoming true languages but in most cases arent enough differentiated.
Then its true that Italy on countrary of France supports local linguistic diversity of languages preserving them and not forcing "Italian standardization" like survivinf forms of Norman descent dialects, occitan, germanic , albanian , slav or French.
Italian was picked from Florentine because was the most intellegible both north and south as well as more clean, evoluted and with academic prestige, also was already in use as language to communicate beyond dialects in the Italian peninsula and in the rest of europe as cultural and commercial language before English and French.

 

[Viridianus]

Its not like that , already in 1300 Italian culture was perceived as one clearly recognizeable by reading Dante too.

The most favorable answer to this would be "people in real life can host several varying levels of identity simultaneously". The more thorough version of that favorable answer is that what they identified with when they said Italian was more akin to what the gameplay calls "Latin" culture group (just like many Slavs do identify as Slavs to a degree) - while still maintaining quite enough of their more local identities to cause cultural conflicts between a Palermian, a Venetian, a Sardinian, and a Viterbian, which are reflected by giving them different gameplay cultures.

Oh, and I hope you won't try saying that Sardinian, the literally most-divergent of Western (i.e. non-Balkan) Romance, is not a language of its own.

 

[vyshan]

So in regards to the Italian Culture. It does exist though it is more central italian for the regions of Tuscany, Rome, Umbria and so on. Now I do think there are some issues with Italy and Cisalpine is one of them.

In regards to naming. I do think that Cisalpine should be renamed to Lombard, after all the region of northern Italy is called Lombardy. The famous Lombard League was in the north for a reason. There is a lombard culture but it is I believe meant to be the culture of the Langobards. Which is what it should be renamed too. The culture group as a whole is called Latin, though I think it would be better fitting to call it Italian. As for the culture called Italian, I think renaming it to Roman or Tuscan might work. I do think that there are some missing cultures like Neapolitan and Venetian as well.

One could possibly go with the EU4 culture set up which has the following cultures: Dalmatian, Ligurian, Lombard, Maltese, Neapolitan, Piedmontese, Romagnol, Sardinian, Sicilian, Tuscan, Umbrian, Venetian. But that might be a bit too much.

 

[Prometheus_1]

So in regards to the Italian Culture. It does exist though it is more central italian for the regions of Tuscany, Rome, Umbria and so on. Now I do think there are some issues with Italy and Cisalpine is one of them.

In regards to naming. I do think that Cisalpine should be renamed to Lombard, after all the region of northern Italy is called Lombardy. The famous Lombard League was in the north for a reason. There is a lombard culture but it is I believe meant to be the culture of the Langobards. Which is what it should be renamed too. The culture group as a whole is called Latin, though I think it would be better fitting to call it Italian. As for the culture called Italian, I think renaming it to Roman or Tuscan might work. I do think that there are some missing cultures like Neapolitan and Venetian as well.

One could possibly go with the EU4 culture set up which has the following cultures: Dalmatian, Ligurian, Lombard, Maltese, Neapolitan, Piedmontese, Romagnol, Sardinian, Sicilian, Tuscan, Umbrian, Venetian. But that might be a bit too much.

There are several Italian subcultures ! But not a nordic macroculture , all can be grouped in the Italian one . I am more for those like Ue4 than a nonexhisting cisalpine one.
Btw at the time also adriatic current Croatian and Slovenian coasts were Italian of dialect ( dalmatico and Istro ) as well as the Ragusa maritime republic .

In south I could see a Norman-talian culture .

Sardinian is a language per se, the culture us Italian still though.