• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Greetings, fellow gamers! Today's Horse Lords dev diary is about Tributary states, Succession in Nomad realms and Dynamic Mercenaries... but let us start with Tributary states!

The Crusader Kings vassalage system has served us fairly well, but in our design discussions, we often return to the problem of "degree"; that is, what are the terms of the contract, exactly? How tight should the contract be in non-Feudal realms, etc. Various improvements have been suggested, such as a "vassalage strength" value (a bit similar to Crown Authority, but for each vassal.) However, most of these ideas stumble on their complexity and the required amount of micro-management. When we were talking about the Nomads of the steppes, though, we really needed a looser type of subordination than outright vassalage. That is why we decided to introduce the concept of Tributaries (which we originally conceived of as a Nomad-only power, but soon chose to make available to all rulers as long as you have the expansion.)

Crusader Kings II - Tributaries.jpg


In Horse Lords, there are two new Casus Bellis related to Tributaries; "Make Tributary" and "Free Tributary" (doing exactly what they sound like.) On the map, the names of Tributary states are no longer shown, though they retain their own colors in the Realms map mode. Tributaries pay a monthly tax to their suzerain and cannot refuse the suzerain's call to wars. However, the suzerain is also expected to protect their tributaries. Apart from this, tributaries are still autonomous. A tributary can only have one suzerain (though the suzerain can be a regular vassal of another ruler's.) The tributary status ends on the death of either ruler, and tributaries can declare wars to free themselves, of course...

Now, let us return to the steppes and talk a bit about their unique form of succession... In reality, this was a complex matter that could be represented in many different ways, but since we already have various elective forms of succession, we decided to make it a bit less direct and more distinct (and no, it is not the horrible Ultimogeniture.:)) In short, among Nomads, the most prestigious son or brother inherits. Minors can inherit Clan rule, but not the tribal Khaganate. Prestige, you say? But isn't that a bit boring? Yes, the player should get some control over the choice of heir. That's why we are introducing the concept of Dynamic Mercenaries.

Crusader Kings II - Make me Proud.jpg


What you do, as a Nomad ruler, is send out your most promising sons and brothers to prove their mettle in the wide world. They will then take some of your Manpower and appear as a Mercenary Band, available for hire by rulers in the general region. As they earn money, the size of their regiment will increase. There are various new events for them as they experience adventures in the court of their employer, on distant battlefields, etc. You will receive notifications about the more significant escapades, and if you happen to be their employer, you are also likely to get some fascinating interactions. In general, dynamic mercenaries tend to increase their skills and gain Prestige, but it is, of course, also a dangerous life... The idea is to foster a strong heir by letting them prove their worth and gain enough Prestige to succeed you.

Crusader Kings II - Dynamic Mercs.jpg


The system with dynamic mercenaries is currently locked to Nomads only, but it is very easy to mod and we are likely to expand on it in future expansions. That's all for now folks. Next week; the Silk Road and Raiding Adventurers!
 
Will we be able to turn tributaries into regular vassals? Will we be able to threaten someone with war if they do not become our tributary? Will we always have the make tributary CB on anyone of a lower rank, or is it only under certain circumstances?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I notice in the first screen that the empire rank nomad is tributary to another empire rank nomad. What are the limits on tributaries in terms of rank if any? Could a count have an empire as a tributary?
 
Tributaries sounds somewhat like vassals in EU4. Could be of some use for the early colonizing powers in pre-EU4 era. *looks at Iberian peninsula* :p
 
  • 1
Reactions:
HL looks really good. I like the dynamic mercenary system, it could be useful for other cultures as well, depending on how much one could tweak it. Is there a way that the mercenary only works for a specific character ?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Great diary, as always. But I wonder why Cuman Khanate changed to empire tier? By 2.3.6 it is kingdom tier title but in screenshot it is an empire? Why every horde must be an empire tier title? Can't a horde be a kingdom or duchy tier title in Horse Lords? And what determines which title will start as a horde and which not?
 
Great diary, as always. But I wonder why Cuman Khanate changed to empire tier? By 2.3.6 it is kingdom tier title but in screenshot it is an empire? Why every horde must be an empire tier title? Can't a horde be a kingdom or duchy tier title in Horse Lords? And what determines which title will start as a horde and which not?

They have stated before that independent hordes can only be empire tier. Clans within hordes are king-tier and it's also possible to have duchy titles and county titles within a horde symbolising the amount of grassland your tribe commands.
 
  • 4
Reactions:
Not sure why you'd bother to block off Dynamic Mercenaries to Nomads only when you acknowledged that it fits other cultures, made it very easy to mod in and you're planning on expanding it later anyway. If you expand it then we won't have to mod it which means it'll work in ironman.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Yes, but very moddable.

Are you aware that your posts are not recognized as developer's post? It prevents from sorting yours by "show dev posts only" which is a nice feature in dev diaries...

Otherwise, it all sounds good. I'm not sure how good tributaries will be for non hordes; loosing it on ruler death means it's probably just better to conquer the old way. I guess it was mostly designed to allow hordes to subjugate one another though.
 
  • 5
Reactions:
Two Questions
-1: will we have some have some leeway on what levies we can give ours sons to start up (retinues), and will what we give them affect their future merc band composition or will it be culture/religion locked ie Muslims ilkhanate and Seljuks) get Camels, Mongols get Horse Archers et cetera.
-2: If I have two competing sons each with their own mercenary band, and one inherits and the other one has a fairly large group and the ambitious trait, can he push his claim with said group
 
  • 5
Reactions:
chose to make available to all rulers as long as you have the expansion
Thanks you so much Doomdark, that was an awesome decision. will you then remove the damn subjugation CB? Considering that's kind of what it represents?
This systme may in time be useful to redo the whole vassal system (like when you do ck3) to something more organic.

In short, among Nomads, the most prestigious son or brother inherits.
Great system is there a chance we'll see prestige and dynastic prestige be more useful further on?

The system with dynamic mercenaries is currently locked to Nomads only, but it is very easy to mod and we are likely to expand on it in future expansions.
To bad I could see it being made open to everyone and the old boring mercenaries going away. I mean the baltic sea cogs are called hanseatic navy in the game files, make sense the hansa should be able to hire it's navy out to the highest bidder.

In the past, there is only war
In the grim darkness of the far past there is only war?
 
Now I'm itching to hear about that Silk Road....
Is it going to be just a bunch of modifiers in certain provinces, or is it going to be a real feature that we can interact with?
If it comes with a bunch of events, it will definitely make Persia my favorite region to play in.
 
  • 3
Reactions:
Would be nice of you got rid of the empire crest from hordes though. Thta map is barely viewable.
 
  • 6
  • 2
Reactions: