• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Greetings, fellow gamers! Today's Horse Lords dev diary is about Tributary states, Succession in Nomad realms and Dynamic Mercenaries... but let us start with Tributary states!

The Crusader Kings vassalage system has served us fairly well, but in our design discussions, we often return to the problem of "degree"; that is, what are the terms of the contract, exactly? How tight should the contract be in non-Feudal realms, etc. Various improvements have been suggested, such as a "vassalage strength" value (a bit similar to Crown Authority, but for each vassal.) However, most of these ideas stumble on their complexity and the required amount of micro-management. When we were talking about the Nomads of the steppes, though, we really needed a looser type of subordination than outright vassalage. That is why we decided to introduce the concept of Tributaries (which we originally conceived of as a Nomad-only power, but soon chose to make available to all rulers as long as you have the expansion.)

Crusader Kings II - Tributaries.jpg


In Horse Lords, there are two new Casus Bellis related to Tributaries; "Make Tributary" and "Free Tributary" (doing exactly what they sound like.) On the map, the names of Tributary states are no longer shown, though they retain their own colors in the Realms map mode. Tributaries pay a monthly tax to their suzerain and cannot refuse the suzerain's call to wars. However, the suzerain is also expected to protect their tributaries. Apart from this, tributaries are still autonomous. A tributary can only have one suzerain (though the suzerain can be a regular vassal of another ruler's.) The tributary status ends on the death of either ruler, and tributaries can declare wars to free themselves, of course...

Now, let us return to the steppes and talk a bit about their unique form of succession... In reality, this was a complex matter that could be represented in many different ways, but since we already have various elective forms of succession, we decided to make it a bit less direct and more distinct (and no, it is not the horrible Ultimogeniture.:)) In short, among Nomads, the most prestigious son or brother inherits. Minors can inherit Clan rule, but not the tribal Khaganate. Prestige, you say? But isn't that a bit boring? Yes, the player should get some control over the choice of heir. That's why we are introducing the concept of Dynamic Mercenaries.

Crusader Kings II - Make me Proud.jpg


What you do, as a Nomad ruler, is send out your most promising sons and brothers to prove their mettle in the wide world. They will then take some of your Manpower and appear as a Mercenary Band, available for hire by rulers in the general region. As they earn money, the size of their regiment will increase. There are various new events for them as they experience adventures in the court of their employer, on distant battlefields, etc. You will receive notifications about the more significant escapades, and if you happen to be their employer, you are also likely to get some fascinating interactions. In general, dynamic mercenaries tend to increase their skills and gain Prestige, but it is, of course, also a dangerous life... The idea is to foster a strong heir by letting them prove their worth and gain enough Prestige to succeed you.

Crusader Kings II - Dynamic Mercs.jpg


The system with dynamic mercenaries is currently locked to Nomads only, but it is very easy to mod and we are likely to expand on it in future expansions. That's all for now folks. Next week; the Silk Road and Raiding Adventurers!
 
Sounds good - a question though - Do you have to declare war for someone to become tributary, or can you also ask them "politely" like when asking someone to become your vassal?

In the past, there is only war... (We have discussed adding peaceful options though. :)
 
  • 17
  • 5
Reactions:
Tributaries for everyone, but dynamic mercenaries only for hordes ?

The other way around would have been more logical, IMHO.

Well, sons going off on adventures would make sense in many cultures, but for the time being, we want it tied to Nomad Succession.
 
  • 25
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:
That is why we decided to introduce the concept of Tributaries (which we originally conceived of as a Nomad-only power, but soon chose to make available to all rulers as long as you have the expansion.)
Thats good since they weren't the only ones using this tributary system.


Now, let us return to the steppes and talk a bit about their unique form of succession... In reality, this was a complex matter that could be represented in many different ways, but since we already have various elective forms of succession, we decided to make it a bit less direct and more distinct (and no, it is not the horrible Ultimogeniture.:)) In short, among Nomads, the most prestigious son or brother inherits. Minors can inherit Clan rule, but not the tribal Khaganate. Prestige, you say? But isn't that a bit boring? Yes, the player should get some control over the choice of heir. That's why we are introducing the concept of Dynamic Mercenaries.
Is it gonna be just as rigidly locked as muslim, republic and tengri succession? :confused:
 
Could you add an option while at war to "offer tribute"? If someone accepts your offer of tribute they would drop their war against you and instead start taking cash. Could offer a way for small states to survive without railroading or skynet AI.
 
  • 15
Reactions:
I'm not sure I like the idea of tributaries being forced to DoW. That's sort of the opposite of the point of a tributary. I think the ideal would be they sit out wars and they can have multiple states they pay tribute to.

But in most cases of Mongol tributary relationships, the tributaries were very much expected to contribute to their overlords' wars - either with troops or gold (or in kind). Severe punishment on non-compliance was also on the table, as seems to have happened with some of the Rurikid tributaries.
 
  • 6
  • 5
Reactions:
Another promising update, tributaries should offer lots of opportunities.

I was wondering, even though in the base game it won't be, could it be possible to mod the tributary state to be inheritable? Maybe with an on_death event for the tributary, reassigning the condition to his successor?
 
  • 3
Reactions:
Raiding adventurers next you say? :) that will be an interesting one for me especially. Strangely enough, I prefer to chase those raiders off rather than doing some of it myself.

For example, does this mean playing as Charlmagne in France from 769, that there could be a good chance of me getting raided by the Tengri Magyars from hungary now? like they did historically?
 
  • 6
Reactions:
Worse, sounds like you let them go when THEIR ruler dies too. I find that a little weird.

Well, it does sound relatively historical, nonetheless. Especially the subjugation of one tribal group to another seems frequently to have been conceived of as a personal allegiance to another, stronger leader. In such a context, personal dependency would have had to be re-earned.
 
  • 5
Reactions:
Well, sons going off on adventures would make sense in many cultures, but for the time being, we want it tied to Nomad Succession.
Maybe it could be allowed for european cultures, only restricted to non-heir children.
The idea being that while the heir is perfectly content in your court, the other sons would not want to stay idle and would want to leave to start their own thing, make something of their life (with the ability to come back if they ever get bored of the adventurous life).
 
  • 5
Reactions:
But in most cases of Mongol tributary relationships, the tributaries were very much expected to contribute to their overlords' wars - either with troops or gold (or in kind). Severe punishment on non-compliance was also on the table, as seems to have happened with some of the Rurikid tributaries.

While the hordes might be the focus of this expansion most tribute relationships weren't the hordes. The tribute relationships in Iberia or the middle east or Britain or the tributaries of Charlemange would be free of expectations of service.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
The system with dynamic mercenaries is currently locked to Nomads only, but it is very easy to mod and we are likely to expand on it in future expansions.

:eek: I am even more excited for the future of Crusader Kings II now than ever before!
 
  • 19
  • 1
Reactions:
While the hordes might be the focus of this expansion most tribute relationships weren't the hordes. The tribute relationships in Iberia or the middle east or Britain or the tributaries of Charlemange would be free of expectations of service.

Hm, a good point. Yeah, in fact the nomadic tributaries and other arrangements are vastly different, and ideally not to be represented by a single system. But now I'm just envisioning the impossible. Maybe it would be an acceptable compromise to make tributaries (at least for non-nomads) renewable upon succession - if the relations are high enough.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Tributaries...Eurasian nomadic empires...all sorts of wonderful stuff...the future of this game grows ever brighter...

 
  • 2
Reactions:
Can anyone elaborate on those portraits please?