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Greetings, fellow gamers! Today's Horse Lords dev diary is about Tributary states, Succession in Nomad realms and Dynamic Mercenaries... but let us start with Tributary states!

The Crusader Kings vassalage system has served us fairly well, but in our design discussions, we often return to the problem of "degree"; that is, what are the terms of the contract, exactly? How tight should the contract be in non-Feudal realms, etc. Various improvements have been suggested, such as a "vassalage strength" value (a bit similar to Crown Authority, but for each vassal.) However, most of these ideas stumble on their complexity and the required amount of micro-management. When we were talking about the Nomads of the steppes, though, we really needed a looser type of subordination than outright vassalage. That is why we decided to introduce the concept of Tributaries (which we originally conceived of as a Nomad-only power, but soon chose to make available to all rulers as long as you have the expansion.)

Crusader Kings II - Tributaries.jpg


In Horse Lords, there are two new Casus Bellis related to Tributaries; "Make Tributary" and "Free Tributary" (doing exactly what they sound like.) On the map, the names of Tributary states are no longer shown, though they retain their own colors in the Realms map mode. Tributaries pay a monthly tax to their suzerain and cannot refuse the suzerain's call to wars. However, the suzerain is also expected to protect their tributaries. Apart from this, tributaries are still autonomous. A tributary can only have one suzerain (though the suzerain can be a regular vassal of another ruler's.) The tributary status ends on the death of either ruler, and tributaries can declare wars to free themselves, of course...

Now, let us return to the steppes and talk a bit about their unique form of succession... In reality, this was a complex matter that could be represented in many different ways, but since we already have various elective forms of succession, we decided to make it a bit less direct and more distinct (and no, it is not the horrible Ultimogeniture.:)) In short, among Nomads, the most prestigious son or brother inherits. Minors can inherit Clan rule, but not the tribal Khaganate. Prestige, you say? But isn't that a bit boring? Yes, the player should get some control over the choice of heir. That's why we are introducing the concept of Dynamic Mercenaries.

Crusader Kings II - Make me Proud.jpg


What you do, as a Nomad ruler, is send out your most promising sons and brothers to prove their mettle in the wide world. They will then take some of your Manpower and appear as a Mercenary Band, available for hire by rulers in the general region. As they earn money, the size of their regiment will increase. There are various new events for them as they experience adventures in the court of their employer, on distant battlefields, etc. You will receive notifications about the more significant escapades, and if you happen to be their employer, you are also likely to get some fascinating interactions. In general, dynamic mercenaries tend to increase their skills and gain Prestige, but it is, of course, also a dangerous life... The idea is to foster a strong heir by letting them prove their worth and gain enough Prestige to succeed you.

Crusader Kings II - Dynamic Mercs.jpg


The system with dynamic mercenaries is currently locked to Nomads only, but it is very easy to mod and we are likely to expand on it in future expansions. That's all for now folks. Next week; the Silk Road and Raiding Adventurers!
 
Love what you guys are doing with this expansion! A question though, will the Muslim North African states in the 769 start date become tributaries, or will they stay independent? I recall in an earlier Charlie dev diary that they're independent 'cause they don't really fit the then-current vassalage system, but they were nominally under the Caliph.
 
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That is why we decided to introduce the concept of Tributaries (which we originally conceived of as a Nomad-only power, but soon chose to make available to all rulers as long as you have the expansion.)
Oh dear....
Yes!
 
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Tributaries for everyone, but dynamic mercenaries only for hordes ?

The other way around would have been more logical, IMHO.

Well, sons going off on adventures would make sense in many cultures, but for the time being, we want it tied to Nomad Succession.
 
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I like the idea of a tributary system a great deal...

But can I just suggest that having a tributary end when either ruler dies would end up being incredibly frustrating? Get enough tributaries (as the Mongols will certainly do) and you'll end up having to constantly war to keep them...individually as they die off, and then all over again when the top nomad dies off. Considering that such wars are rarely quick, that could potentially put the nomadic empire in a constant loop where they rarely get to fight any other wars.

Perhaps it won't end up that way, I don't know. I suppose we'll have to see the system in action. But, from a player perspective, it sounds like eventually I would want to conquer the land outright just to have to keep from it constantly slipping out of my control.

An idea:

Perhaps, upon the death of either ruler, it fires an event where the tribute must be "renegotiated". A new tributary who is young, cowardly, or otherwise too frightened of the nomadic empire's power will simply renew the tribute. Likewise, a new nomadic ruler who is unimpressive or otherwise already has massive problems will see tributes slip from his grasp upon succession and will have to reclaim them.
 
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Sounds good - a question though - Do you have to declare war for someone to become tributary, or can you also ask them "politely" like when asking someone to become your vassal?

In the past, there is only war... (We have discussed adding peaceful options though. :)
 
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Great. I am really hyped for this expansion.

Now only thing we need associated with the dynamic mercenary feature, is ability to play as mercenaries and roam around as bands with family and court, with an off-map 'camp' building serving as the characters' house (similar to patricians' villas in merchant republics). And serve under various lords, pillage their lands (that's what mercenaries really did) for lack of pay. Or roam around as bandits pillaging and looting lands for money. Also asking famous people like princes to join your band, or ask for a king to give you patronage or give you a castle to serve as permanent vassals. And at the same time managing your mercenary band, it's leaders and number of soldiers (depending on money and prestige). :D

And of course when an opportunity presents, simply invade, attack and completely take over the weak lands and become feudal-style military warlords. Mamluks did this. Also this would be a huge step in unlocking monastic orders/theocracies.

How about this, dear devs? Even if as unofficial mods? :D
 
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Sounds good - a question though - Do you have to declare war for someone to become tributary, or can you also ask them "politely" like when asking someone to become your vassal?

It seems as a loot of work to first conquer, and then soon after letting them all go when your ruler dies.
Could there not be a chance of the tributaries continuing their tributary with the new ruler? If it works best for them that way and they like him, instead of standing alone out there on the steppes…?

EDIT- Why is the Dynamic Mercenary thing not also available for Pagans for example? Would fit great I think, as they also value prestige a lot in their life….
 
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The system with dynamic mercenaries is currently locked to Nomads only, but it is very easy to mod and we are likely to expand on it in future expansions.

:eek: I am even more excited for the future of Crusader Kings II now than ever before!
 
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I like the idea of a tributary system a great deal...

But can I just suggest that having a tributary end when either ruler dies would end up being incredibly frustrating? Get enough tributaries (as the Mongols will certainly do) and you'll end up having to constantly war to keep them...individually as they die off, and then all over again when the top nomad dies off. Considering that such wars are rarely quick, that could potentially put the nomadic empire in a constant loop where they rarely get to fight any other wars.

Perhaps it won't end up that way, I don't know. I suppose we'll have to see the system in action. But, from a player perspective, it sounds like eventually I would want to conquer the land outright just to have to keep from it constantly slipping out of my control.

An idea:

Perhaps, upon the death of either ruler, it fires an event where the tribute must be "renegotiated". A new tributary who is young, cowardly, or otherwise too frightened of the nomadic empire's power will simply renew the tribute. Likewise, a new nomadic ruler who is unimpressive or otherwise already has massive problems will see tributes slip from his grasp upon succession and will have to reclaim them.

Honestly, I'd like it if the Tributary system only ended when the suzerain dies. If I'm an Emperor-level Mongol leader, head of tens/hundreds of thousands of screaming warriors, why should I care if Count Joe Schmoe dies? His offspring had *better* keep paying tribute.....

Now if that god-like Mongol leader dies and his successor is some whiney little 17 year old brat, you can bet that any and all tribute is going to stop until he reconquers everything.
 
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Could you add an option while at war to "offer tribute"? If someone accepts your offer of tribute they would drop their war against you and instead start taking cash. Could offer a way for small states to survive without railroading or skynet AI.
 
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What's the notification with a mountain and an exclamation mark?
This "mountain" icon (minus the exclamation mark) is present in the clan screen and indicates the amount of land the clans desire from their overlord for them to be satisfied.
So I guess this notification indicates that the clans currently don't have enough land (and might probably become rebellous).
 
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