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Hi again folks! It's a big day today with the release of the Common Sense expansion for EUIV! Naturally, we are releasing a patch for CKII in tandem, in order to keep the save game converter up-to-date.

Patch Notes here:
- Updated government calculation to be up to date with EU4 1.12
- Fixed the localisation issues on Mac and Linux with country names
- Ibadi is now its own main religion like it should be

NOTE: We are aware of an issue on Mac and Linux caused by EU4's recent engine upgrade, which broke EU4's ability to find the exported games from CK2. For now, you have to manually copy the exported save from eu4_export/mod to EU4's mod folder but this will be fixed ASAP by the EU4 team.

Now then, this time I thought I'd talk about the internal dynamics of the nomadic hordes. As I mentioned last time, Nomads use population and manpower rather than relying on levies and taxes from Holdings, so they tend to have a lot fewer normal vassals than other realms. To compensate for this, Nomad hordes rely on a variable number of member Clans instead. The Clans are similar to regular vassals in some respects, except that they also employ Manpower and Population (oh, and you are allowed to play as a vassal Clan too, of course), and each Clan has a special opinion called Clan Sentiment of the other Clans, separate from that of its chief. As a horde grows, it will be encouraged to increase the number of member Clans. Likewise, you can have too many Clans for the amount of available land.

Crusader Kings II - Clan Management.jpg


Effective management of the Clans takes some effort due to their infighting and Sentiments. We have added a new screen to give you a proper overview of the situation. Red lines between the Clans indicate an ongoing "Blood Feud" and green lines a "Blood Oath". A Clan can only have one "blood brother" Clan, but many feuds. Feuds are started either by simple declaration, or by raiding one of the other Clans in the realm... Yes, even though you might all be serving same Khan, nothing stops you from raiding a fellow Clan's land! Blood Oaths are similar to marriage alliances; they last as long as both of the Clan Chiefs are alive, but they are only type of alliance that allows you to call another Clan to war in internal wars (and that includes the Khan!) Blood Feuds are much more persistent and can only be settled with a payment of blood money... or by the other Clan's extinction.

Another twist to the Oath and Feud status is that actions taken against one Clan will affect the Sentiment of its enemy or blood brother, as appropriate. For example, an oath-bound Clan will also become hostile to whomever is raiding you, and will dislike any clans you are in Feud with for as long as the Oath lasts. Feuding parties are allowed to freely declare outright wars against each other, fighting over the grazing lands in a single county.

Crusader Kings II - Feud.jpg


Clans can be a bit tricky to manage, not just because of their own infighting but also because they don't follow any system of laws like the Feudal realms do; they are more about frankly expecting and demanding things from their Khan. If they view the Khan as weak and pathetic they are quite prone to attempt to have him replaced with another Clan chief (usually through membership in a special Faction.)

Apart from proposing Blood Oaths and declaring Feuds, the Khan also has access to a number of special actions against the other Clans. He can demand that they split in order to maintain balance within the tribe, or even absorb them; unless they refuse, of course! Clans are also free to adopt the religion of another Clan, should they like it better for some reason (steppe nomads are fairly open-minded about religious matters.)

I am sure there is more I should mention about Clan management, but since I really need to get back to work, I'll leave you with this. :) Next time; Tributaries, Nomad succession and dynamic mercenaries!
 

Coldfire4134

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Will we be able to use the character creator to choose government type?

I want to form the viking horde of Ireland in the year 1066.
 
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Deth_Glitch

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I see the Holy Roman Horde in my mind right now... trust me, its messy.
 
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ngppgn

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@Groogy: Somewhat technical question here:

Currently, if a character holds a landless title but owns no provinces and try to raise any retinue/mercenries/holy orders, one of this hapoens:

-if your title has a capital Province defined in landed_titles, the troops will spawn there.
-otherwise, the troops will spawn in ANY/ALL, that is, nowhere in the map.

With hordes that loose all the land becoming landless, has this issue been dealt with?
(please, be yes, since right now this behavior precludes the playability of landless characters, either in vanilla or in mods.

Edit: as an added question, will despossessed/landless hordes be able to loot? Under the current rules they wouldn'y because a) they would need a friendly province to toggle looting on and b) gold from looting only gets to your treasurery if you are looting a province which is neighbour to your land.

Arguably, these two issues should be adresses if you want these landless hordes be an actual threat or aa playable possibility, rather than an annoyance or a delayed but no less certain game over
 
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Jorlem

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Between this and the duel mechanic in Way of Life, you guys are specifically out to make all my contributions to AGOT redundant, aren't you?
Eh, vanilla duels are kinda useless anyway, given the restrictions on who you can duel with. If rivals were a bit more frequent, then maybe, but as is, you can almost never duel anyone in vanilla, so the GoT duels are better simply by dint of actually getting to use them more than once or twice in a game.

(Oddly, carousing has the exact opposite issue, where you can do the action with almost everyone, but it is so tedious to do so that I almost never use it.)
 
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NecroGangster

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Will it be possible for a clan to become independent from a Horde?
 

Slavicist

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Hi again folks! It's a big day today with the release of the Common Sense expansion for EUIV! Naturally, we are releasing a patch for CKII in tandem, in order to keep the save game converter up-to-date.

Patch Notes here:
- Updated government calculation to be up to date with EU4 1.12
- Fixed the localisation issues on Mac and Linux with country names
- Ibadi is now its own main religion like it should be

NOTE: We are aware of an issue on Mac and Linux caused by EU4's recent engine upgrade, which broke EU4's ability to find the exported games from CK2. For now, you have to manually copy the exported save from eu4_export/mod to EU4's mod folder but this will be fixed ASAP by the EU4 team.

Now then, this time I thought I'd talk about the internal dynamics of the nomadic hordes. As I mentioned last time, Nomads use population and manpower rather than relying on levies and taxes from Holdings, so they tend to have a lot fewer normal vassals than other realms. To compensate for this, Nomad hordes rely on a variable number of member Clans instead. The Clans are similar to regular vassals in some respects, except that they also employ Manpower and Population (oh, and you are allowed to play as a vassal Clan too, of course), and each Clan has a special opinion called Clan Sentiment of the other Clans, separate from that of its chief. As a horde grows, it will be encouraged to increase the number of member Clans. Likewise, you can have too many Clans for the amount of available land.

View attachment 129483

Effective management of the Clans takes some effort due to their infighting and Sentiments. We have added a new screen to give you a proper overview of the situation. Red lines between the Clans indicate an ongoing "Blood Feud" and green lines a "Blood Oath". A Clan can only have one "blood brother" Clan, but many feuds. Feuds are started either by simple declaration, or by raiding one of the other Clans in the realm... Yes, even though you might all be serving same Khan, nothing stops you from raiding a fellow Clan's land! Blood Oaths are similar to marriage alliances; they last as long as both of the Clan Chiefs are alive, but they are only type of alliance that allows you to call another Clan to war in internal wars (and that includes the Khan!) Blood Feuds are much more persistent and can only be settled with a payment of blood money... or by the other Clan's extinction.

Another twist to the Oath and Feud status is that actions taken against one Clan will affect the Sentiment of its enemy or blood brother, as appropriate. For example, an oath-bound Clan will also become hostile to whomever is raiding you, and will dislike any clans you are in Feud with for as long as the Oath lasts. Feuding parties are allowed to freely declare outright wars against each other, fighting over the grazing lands in a single county.

View attachment 129482

Clans can be a bit tricky to manage, not just because of their own infighting but also because they don't follow any system of laws like the Feudal realms do; they are more about frankly expecting and demanding things from their Khan. If they view the Khan as weak and pathetic they are quite prone to attempt to have him replaced with another Clan chief (usually through membership in a special Faction.)

Apart from proposing Blood Oaths and declaring Feuds, the Khan also has access to a number of special actions against the other Clans. He can demand that they split in order to maintain balance within the tribe, or even absorb them; unless they refuse, of course! Clans are also free to adopt the religion of another Clan, should they like it better for some reason (steppe nomads are fairly open-minded about religious matters.)

I am sure there is more I should mention about Clan management, but since I really need to get back to work, I'll leave you with this. :) Next time; Tributaries, Nomad succession and dynamic mercenaries!

Groogy I've got a question regarding the DLC - what will happen immediately upon update but before the DLC purchase? Will the features simply be not there and there would be no change, or will all the nomads simply be locked from playing without the Horse Lords?
 
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Yvanoff

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also if you declare war while you are landless, you instantly loses said war (-99% warscore) unless some conditions are met (like for mercenaries who can declare war if they are not paid, but if you try playing a mercenary chief (console command) declare war and you'll be instantly losing it)

I'd assume all these issues were fixed though. I mean, they announced the roaming, landless hords as a new feature of the DLC. they must have reworked the thing, otherwise said feature would just not be usable
 

Groogy

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Groogy I've got a question regarding the DLC - what will happen immediately upon update but before the DLC purchase? Will the features simply be not there and there would be no change, or will all the nomads simply be locked from playing without the Horse Lords?

It's very technical and hard to explain in the layman terms. Easiest way I guess would be to say nomads are not generated unless you have the expansion
 
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alfian

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Will Alans or Caucasians have their portraits?
 
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I'm so excited for the inclusion of Tarim Basin! What religions will the counties likely have though?

In the early periods, it would be ideal to have a mixture of Manichean and Buddhist provinces in my opinion, as well as also some Nestorian, Zoroastrian, even Tengri and an occasional Muslim courtier. Khotan, for example, was a major center of Buddhism and had great influence on Buddhists elsewhere, particularly that of Tibet. Meanwhile the Uighurs who ruled the Tarim Basin were initially Manichean, but they, like most of the region, shifted to Buddhism more or less by the 1066 start date. In fact Buddhism was still going strong after the post-Mongol invasions, and it wasn't until around the start of EUIV's timeframe that the region started to be Islamicized.
 
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It's very technical and hard to explain in the layman terms. Easiest way I guess would be to say nomads are not generated unless you have the expansion
Why is it so? All the DLC released so far made it so that religions/governments that were DLC-locked were still being used by the AI.

As a side note: are the Kara-Khitai in?
 

Groogy

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Why is it so? All the DLC released so far made it so that religions/governments that were DLC-locked were still being used by the AI.

As a side note: are the Kara-Khitai in?

Because we couldn't do it any other way and yes of course they are in. They are a potential random name for a clan. (not scripter so dont remember if they are in history database)
 
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jim198913

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Feuds are started either by simple declaration, or by raiding one of the other Clans in the realm... Yes, even though you might all be serving same Khan, nothing stops you from raiding a fellow Clan's land! Blood Oaths are similar to marriage alliances; they last as long as both of the Clan Chiefs are alive, but they are only type of alliance that allows you to call another Clan to war in internal wars (and that includes the Khan!) Blood Feuds are much more persistent and can only be settled with a payment of blood money... or by the other Clan's extinction.

A few questions regarding what you said.

Can you still form alliances outside of your realm by using your children or relatives?

Does this mean established tribal vassals and other tribal/feudal pagans now raid each other in the realm? presuming their overall liege has the "nomadic government type"?

If you as the khan help a fellow clan fight another clan you have in your realm. How do the borders stand when you are fighting one of your own clans? I mean, does that clan you are fighting temporally become a revolt realm until the war is over of how the way the feudals work? or does he still remain one of your clans while you are fighting him?

Last question, since the counties are more or less empty, will we ever see peasant/religious and liberation revolts in those regions anymore?
 
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Slavicist

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It's very technical and hard to explain in the layman terms. Easiest way I guess would be to say nomads are not generated unless you have the expansion

So until I purchase the expansion, I'll still be able to play the Mongols or whichever and they'll be unreformed tribes just like e.g. the Norse?

Nothing Nomadic-related's coming along with the free patch?
 

Finnway

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This dev diary made me realize CK2: Horse Lords is inspired by Mad Max: Fury Road

Clan Wars.jpg
 
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