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It's time for the weekly dev diary and this time it's a biggie, as we proudly announce Horse Lords, the new Crusader Kings II expansion! So what makes the proud rulers of the endless steppes unique? Well, in short, their relative lack of permanent settlements. This expansion gives the nomadic peoples of the steppes a unique type of gameplay which is not centered around Castles, Temples and Cities at all. Playing as a Nomad, you are allowed to conquer and even own normal Holdings, but they are worth little to you except as vassal cash cows. What you really care about is more grazing land for your sheep and horses. Thus, nomad hordes simply have a total population, which grows relative to how many empty Holding slots exist in your provinces (steppe provinces are best, but some other terrain types are also acceptable).

Crusader Kings II - Nomad Population.jpg


A large fraction of your total Population counts as your Manpower, which is used to raise your regiments (much like the Retinue system.) Of course, if all your fighting men are dead, it will be a while before your Manpower replenishes! War on the steppes is fast and fluid; you only occupy an empty province for as long as one of your armies is standing there, or if you build a fort there to lock it down... and even then, you do not get much war score from the open wastes.

Crusader Kings II - The Empty Steppe.jpg


This brings us to the one Holding that actually means a lot to the hordes; their capital. Each nomad clan can only one of this special holding type, but there are more upgrades for it than any of the regular types, and these improvements have more unique effects too... To really defeat a nomad horde, you need to occupy their capital (or decisively beat them in battle, of course.) However, Nomads are allowed to move their capital around often; and that means they actually pull up stakes, 'buildings' and all, and move the whole thing to another location!

Crusader Kings II - Raising Hordes.jpg


Another special twist to the nomadic hordes is that even in defeat, they are still dangerous. Should a horde lose its last province, the tribe will still exist, and may use its remaining armies to conquer another land in which to settle. Naturally, nomads can choose to settle on a more permanent basis, by completely switching over to a Feudal, Tribal or Republican lifestyle. This is done by special decision, reminiscent of how Tribes work.

Now, as the astute among you might have wondered, Crusader Kings is largely about managing your turbulent vassals, so what replaces that important gameplay aspect for the Nomads? The answer to that, my friends, is the Clans, and that will be the subject of next week's dev diary! Until then...


Khaaaan.jpg
 

TheDungen

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I understand, but I think the two being distinct relationships would be rather interesting. See again the example I used in the first post. Like a tributary doesn't have follow the laws of its liege, and couldn't be arrested but still pays the liege a small tax for protection.
Protection is the word, both tribute systems and feudal one are glorified protection rackets. The tribute systems are just more up front with it.
 
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pyrusmole

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Protection is the word, both tribute systems and feudal one are glorified protection rackets. The tribute systems are just more up front with it.
Right. We are not in disagreement. All I'm asserting is that a distinction in terms of gameplay would be useful for expressing a more nuanced relationship. A direct vassal possesses certain privileges a tributary would lack, like ability to serve as an elector in an elective government, but is also subject to the laws of the crown, or could be imprisoned by his liege. The simple question is this: if I am a feudal lord, can have a tributary state using the tributary system that will be incorporated in the upcoming expansion, or is this tributary system only available to hordes?
 
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fishface60

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So have I got this right.
Your population growth and cap is determined by the number of empty provinces you own.
Your manpower growth is always higher than your base population growth.
When you recruit a horde regiment, it reinforces at the manpower growth rate, removing an equal amount from your population pool.

Or are manpower and population separate pools?

Do Nomads get income based on their population, or do they have to either rely on the income of their capital, or get some vassals or tributaries.

Also, do Duchies and Kingdoms de-jure drift into Nomad Clan or Horde titles?
 
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General Karthos

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I thought this meant that you could make your horse your heir like you can sometimes make him your Chancellor. Or horses for all your positions in your court and council.

Ah well.

Seriously though... this looks interesting, and those of you clamoring for a steppe nomad based expansion seem to finally get what you wanted. I will watch with interest, mixed with caution, and see how I feel as time progresses.
 

TheDungen

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Right. We are not in disagreement. All I'm asserting is that a distinction in terms of gameplay would be useful for expressing a more nuanced relationship. A direct vassal possesses certain privileges a tributary would lack, like ability to serve as an elector in an elective government, but is also subject to the laws of the crown, or could be imprisoned by his liege. The simple question is this: if I am a feudal lord, can have a tributary state using the tributary system that will be incorporated in the upcoming expansion, or is this tributary system only available to hordes?
Yes you are quite correct, I'm just saying that with these mechanics in place perhaps the devs should take a look at feudalism and use what they've learned from writing the tribute mechanics (as well as taking a look at the feudal state in eu4 the hre) to make it softer.
 

TheDungen

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I thought this meant that you could make your horse your heir like you can sometimes make him your Chancellor. Or horses for all your positions in your court and council.

Ah well.

Seriously though... this looks interesting, and those of you clamoring for a steppe nomad based expansion seem to finally get what you wanted. I will watch with interest, mixed with caution, and see how I feel as time progresses.
Look at it the way I do, it can't possibly make the steppes work worse than they do presently.
 

aitaituo

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I thought this meant that you could make your horse your heir like you can sometimes make him your Chancellor. Or horses for all your positions in your court and council.

Ah well.

I have been reporting the announcement as the long awaited Ponies DLC.
 
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JosephConrad

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This DLC will lead to an interesting conflict between those settled states on the edge of the Steppe and the Nomadic Hordes; and will make the whole Khanate thing much more realistic. Actual, historical ways of representing how the Khanates worked.

Will Russia receive more focus with this DLC, 'cause that would make sense.
 

Djacir

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That means that i can finally destroy their cities, sell their people into slavery and bring the heathen gods back to Vaes Dothrak?

Thanks Paradox, take my money.
 
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TheDarkMaster

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Will there be a new icon for empty holdings controlled by tribals to go with the nomad empty holding icon? Will there be ways to establish new tribal holdings in the new patch? Say, if a tribal settles land from a nomad or takes control of other holdings and either isn't able to or doesn't want to change governments?
 

illathid

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Will there be a new icon for empty holdings controlled by tribals to go with the nomad empty holding icon? Will there be ways to establish new tribal holdings in the new patch? Say, if a tribal settles land from a nomad or takes control of other holdings and either isn't able to or doesn't want to change governments?

yes. Look at the empty holding here:
ck2_12.jpg
 

CplKatie

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I was so excited when I heard through the grapevine that the next DLC would be equestrian but to my dismay not a single My Little Pony reference was to be seen. /sadface
 
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TheDungen

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I was so excited when I heard through the grapevine that the next DLC would be equestrian but to my dismay not a single My Little Pony reference was to be seen. /sadface
Well we haven't seen the achievments yet. I'm guessing one called Friendship is money. For either forcing someone to pay tribute to you or for giving tribute to someone.
 
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