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It's time for the weekly dev diary and this time it's a biggie, as we proudly announce Horse Lords, the new Crusader Kings II expansion! So what makes the proud rulers of the endless steppes unique? Well, in short, their relative lack of permanent settlements. This expansion gives the nomadic peoples of the steppes a unique type of gameplay which is not centered around Castles, Temples and Cities at all. Playing as a Nomad, you are allowed to conquer and even own normal Holdings, but they are worth little to you except as vassal cash cows. What you really care about is more grazing land for your sheep and horses. Thus, nomad hordes simply have a total population, which grows relative to how many empty Holding slots exist in your provinces (steppe provinces are best, but some other terrain types are also acceptable).

Crusader Kings II - Nomad Population.jpg


A large fraction of your total Population counts as your Manpower, which is used to raise your regiments (much like the Retinue system.) Of course, if all your fighting men are dead, it will be a while before your Manpower replenishes! War on the steppes is fast and fluid; you only occupy an empty province for as long as one of your armies is standing there, or if you build a fort there to lock it down... and even then, you do not get much war score from the open wastes.

Crusader Kings II - The Empty Steppe.jpg


This brings us to the one Holding that actually means a lot to the hordes; their capital. Each nomad clan can only one of this special holding type, but there are more upgrades for it than any of the regular types, and these improvements have more unique effects too... To really defeat a nomad horde, you need to occupy their capital (or decisively beat them in battle, of course.) However, Nomads are allowed to move their capital around often; and that means they actually pull up stakes, 'buildings' and all, and move the whole thing to another location!

Crusader Kings II - Raising Hordes.jpg


Another special twist to the nomadic hordes is that even in defeat, they are still dangerous. Should a horde lose its last province, the tribe will still exist, and may use its remaining armies to conquer another land in which to settle. Naturally, nomads can choose to settle on a more permanent basis, by completely switching over to a Feudal, Tribal or Republican lifestyle. This is done by special decision, reminiscent of how Tribes work.

Now, as the astute among you might have wondered, Crusader Kings is largely about managing your turbulent vassals, so what replaces that important gameplay aspect for the Nomads? The answer to that, my friends, is the Clans, and that will be the subject of next week's dev diary! Until then...


Khaaaan.jpg
 

nicochrish

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Wait why is everyone misspelling Groogy's name on this thread did I miss the memo or something?

Misspelling the mighty and magnificent Groody's name? That's what I call playing with fire!
 
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tumblr_inline_mxgtxgg3L61s6lcwy.png


I SHALL BURN YOU ALL!
Emperor Protects
Ah, yes the magical train from Alice Madness returns that corrupts everything it touches controlled by a creepy and vile man who treats children like dolls (not going to go any further)... That seem like a respectable heresy train... But anyway we should all know misspell Groogy's name is in it's own way an infraction even if it isn't in the rules (yet). :p
 
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nicochrish

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Quoted by Groogy?! Well that's one of my life's goals accomplished. :D
 
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I know but strangely I was pointing out people were misspelling his name and now I am accused heresy by the looks of it but yours looks well justified.

Guilty by association, I suppose. At least my place at the stake will have been well earned.

EDIT: That said, I do hope that our gruesome fate will be postponed for long enough that we'll still have the oportunity to play at least one Borjigin campaign with this awesome new expansion...
 
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I know but strangely I was pointing out people were misspelling his name and now I am accused heresy by the looks of it but yours looks well justified.

Exterminatus spares no filth touched by the taint of heretical minds.
 
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Pretty much everything in this post. Yes the clans can force a new Khan or form their own horde.

Is the amount of clans hardcoded as with republics? (ie a clan forming its horde will immediately generate a new vassal clan for the Khan left with just two vassal clans).

Are nomads supposed to be strong and viable until the end game, or are they supposed to adapt to stay competitive (in a similar vein than tribals)?
 

Groogy

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I still want to know if you can subjugate other hordes and make them part of yours (like clans?).
If they are a different culture, no

Is the amount of clans hardcoded as with republics? (ie a clan forming its horde will immediately generate a new vassal clan for the Khan left with just two vassal clans).

Are nomads supposed to be strong and viable until the end game, or are they supposed to adapt to stay competitive (in a similar vein than tribals)?
You can play nomad to the end if you want I believe. And yes there is a hard coded(in defines.lua) upper limit of clans but the actual amount can fluctuate depending on what's happening.
 
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Guilty by association, I suppose. At least my place at the stake will have been well earned.

EDIT: That said, I do hope that our gruesome fate will be postponed for long enough that we'll still have the oportunity to play at least one Borjigin campaign with this awesome new expansion...
Hopefully...

But time to get serious... so Groogy will holy sites be safe from destruction? If not then will we be able to rebuild them, and will it still cause problems (like breaking the religious screen causing crashes)? and finally with the map expansion will any of the Tengri holy sites be moved?
 

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How about Horde population. Is there an upper-limit for how much population an empty holding slot will generate?

And are there certain terrain types where the holding slots will generate more horde population?
 

riadach

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If they are a different culture, no
That's a shame.

It would be quite representative if it was. The magyars were once subject hordes of the Khazars, likewise the Pechenegs were to the Cumans. The Golden Horde had a variety of sub-hordes of different nationalities under their banners.
 
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Hopefully...

But time to get serious... so Groogy will holy sites be safe from destruction? If not then will we be able to rebuild them, and will it still cause problems (like breaking the religious screen causing crashes)? and finally with the map expansion will any of the Tengri holy sites be moved?

It could be a cool little feature if they could be destroyed and rebuilt. Giving huge bonuses to prestige and piety to the person and dynasty who rebuilt it.
 
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fanoI

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If they are a different culture, no

Why this limitation? Is it hardcoded or can be modded?

You can play nomad to the end if you want I believe. And yes there is a hard coded(in defines.lua) upper limit of clans but the actual amount can fluctuate depending on what's happening.

Can we have more information about this clans mechanic? How much they are similar to Patricians? They have a sort of clan holding? With special buildings? We can use these clans with "feudal" government that are not nomads to simulate unlanded playable characters (for different types of Republics, to make playable Holy Orders / Mercenaries and so on...).
 
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Rags17

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Not really it fails to take into account why iberia fell to the christians. (Younger sons of european knightly families went south to aid in the struggle, and carve out realms of their own, coupled with that the umayyads no longer had the backing of a united arabic empire) It wasn't mere chance. Granted there should be some chance of it happening but not 50%.

I've written elsewhere that in my perfect version of the game every historical outcome has around a 90% chance of happening. In the short term this means things would track true to history, but over time the chance that anyone gets exactly the same outcome as real life would approach zero. I agree that the chance of Iberia turning christian was probably 90% or more - after the Ummayad decline there was really nothing stopping them.


Wait why is everyone misspelling Groogy's name on this thread did I miss the memo or something?

No one is misspelling Grooyg's name, you're just reading it wrong.
 
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Mackus

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I wonder how Seljuks will be represented. They were very much nomad for most of their existence, like later mongols.

I wonder if decadence should be disabled/limited for tribal and nomad muslim.
Tribal muslim mongols and turks should have elective gavelkind, and that would offset their lack of decadence invasions.
Nomads would get their own mechanics to offset their strengths, and also shouldn't get decadence.
The rationale for decadence, is that you are shaming your dynasty with hedonism, but nomads and tribals are not degenerated by decadent ways of cities. They live on steppes or desert (Altaics, Bedouins, Berbers).

Easiest way to implement it, would be making impossible for characters in who are tribal/nomad (or in tribal/nomad courts) to get "decadent" trait, and make event causing decadence invasion not trigger. No need to hardcode it.
 
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