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It's time for the weekly dev diary and this time it's a biggie, as we proudly announce Horse Lords, the new Crusader Kings II expansion! So what makes the proud rulers of the endless steppes unique? Well, in short, their relative lack of permanent settlements. This expansion gives the nomadic peoples of the steppes a unique type of gameplay which is not centered around Castles, Temples and Cities at all. Playing as a Nomad, you are allowed to conquer and even own normal Holdings, but they are worth little to you except as vassal cash cows. What you really care about is more grazing land for your sheep and horses. Thus, nomad hordes simply have a total population, which grows relative to how many empty Holding slots exist in your provinces (steppe provinces are best, but some other terrain types are also acceptable).

Crusader Kings II - Nomad Population.jpg


A large fraction of your total Population counts as your Manpower, which is used to raise your regiments (much like the Retinue system.) Of course, if all your fighting men are dead, it will be a while before your Manpower replenishes! War on the steppes is fast and fluid; you only occupy an empty province for as long as one of your armies is standing there, or if you build a fort there to lock it down... and even then, you do not get much war score from the open wastes.

Crusader Kings II - The Empty Steppe.jpg


This brings us to the one Holding that actually means a lot to the hordes; their capital. Each nomad clan can only one of this special holding type, but there are more upgrades for it than any of the regular types, and these improvements have more unique effects too... To really defeat a nomad horde, you need to occupy their capital (or decisively beat them in battle, of course.) However, Nomads are allowed to move their capital around often; and that means they actually pull up stakes, 'buildings' and all, and move the whole thing to another location!

Crusader Kings II - Raising Hordes.jpg


Another special twist to the nomadic hordes is that even in defeat, they are still dangerous. Should a horde lose its last province, the tribe will still exist, and may use its remaining armies to conquer another land in which to settle. Naturally, nomads can choose to settle on a more permanent basis, by completely switching over to a Feudal, Tribal or Republican lifestyle. This is done by special decision, reminiscent of how Tribes work.

Now, as the astute among you might have wondered, Crusader Kings is largely about managing your turbulent vassals, so what replaces that important gameplay aspect for the Nomads? The answer to that, my friends, is the Clans, and that will be the subject of next week's dev diary! Until then...


Khaaaan.jpg
 

theKing1988

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Well to be honest i was not really happy when they announced The Old Gods but yeah that was perhaps the best expansion, i think that they are forcing quantity over quality . While the Mongols and other hordes helped shape the world that we know today and that the nomad culture itself is amazing it shouldnt be a priority for Paradox .

To provide good gameplay for what they already have made playable on the map should always be a priority imo.
 
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sreckom92

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Well to be honest i was not really happy when they announced The Old Gods but yeah that was perhaps the best expansion, i think that they are forcing quantity over quality . While the Mongols and other hordes helped shape the world that we know today and that the nomad culture itself is amazing it shouldnt be a priority for Paradox .
Paradox is looking to make money. They probably looked at the forum and selected the most requested feature. And indeed, steppe overhaul was the most wanted dlc theme in the last year. Quite a lot of people asked for it.
With Rajas of India and Charlemagne, they apparently wanted to attract new fans. Disregarding those 2, plus Sunset Invasion, rest of the expansions mostly went on to improve the depth of the game.
I'm all in for a Crusade-themed expansion, but if I were the developer, I would go and listen the majority of fans. Like I said, profit is the main reason behind expansion planning.
 
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TheDungen

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Paradox is looking to make money. They probably looked at the forum and selected the most requested feature. And indeed, steppe overhaul was the most wanted dlc theme in the last year. Quite a lot of people asked for it.
With Rajas of India and Charlemagne, they apparently wanted to attract new fans. Disregarding those 2, plus Sunset Invasion, rest of the expansions mostly went on to improve the depth of the game.
I'm all in for a Crusade-themed expansion, but if I were the developer, I would go and listen the majority of fans. Like I said, profit is the main reason behind expansion planning.
RoI (adding india) SoI (adding playable muslims) ToG (adding time) SSI (not sure I agree this is wide but it certainly didnt fix anything) CM (more time) and now this... isn't that more than half of the expansions. the ones that remain are SoA and WoL (which was very minor).
 
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Paradox is looking to make money. They probably looked at the forum and selected the most requested feature. And indeed, steppe overhaul was the most wanted dlc theme in the last year. Quite a lot of people asked for it.
With Rajas of India and Charlemagne, they apparently wanted to attract new fans. Disregarding those 2, plus Sunset Invasion, rest of the expansions mostly went on to improve the depth of the game.
I'm all in for a Crusade-themed expansion, but if I were the developer, I would go and listen the majority of fans. Like I said, profit is the main reason behind expansion planning.
Yeah but i mean come on CK2 sold over 1 mil copies they should atleast improve crusades in a free patch, i understand that they need the money but they dont need it that badly with profitable titles under their belt not asking money for every single new feature could be good for them to strenghten their relations with the customers/fans.
 
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KingNothing

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I was not really happy when they announced The Old Gods but yeah that was perhaps the best expansion, i think that they are forcing quantity over quality . While the Mongols and other hordes helped shape the world that we know today and that the nomad culture itself is amazing it shouldnt be a priority for Paradox .
I disagree simply because it is one of the few things that have been asked for constantly for the past two years.
 
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riadach

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So the clans all have capitals but none of them own counties. How do they choose where to place them?

Will there be the option to subject other tribes and if so, will they become another clan?

How do clans raise their armies? Do you give them to them by allocating horde armies to them as outlined in a previous dd?
 

KingNothing

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Am I the only one who's puzzled as to how they can do a Mongol themed expansion without opening the Chinese area for campaigning?
I don't think its really mongol themed. Its a steppe DLC, if you notice, Doomdark never once said the world Mongol in the dev diary. Only the ad says it.
 
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KingNothing

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I am not against the expansion i just want the game to be polished a bit before expanding it .
I don't think I am understand what you mean by "polished". They have 700 lines of bug fixes, reportedly massively increased speed, and this is a depth DLC, because it adds depth to the steppes. Those all sounds like polish to me. Now adding China or expanding the time line is what I think of when I hear the word expanding.
 
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TheDungen

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I don't think I am understand what you mean by "polished". They have 700 lines of bug fixes, reportedly massively increased speed, and this is a depth DLC, because it adds depth to the steppes. Those all sounds like polish to me. Now adding China or expanding the time line is what I think of when I hear the word expanding.
Yeah but we don't know wha thoose 700 lines of bug fixes are do we? And there are conceptual changes that could qualify for polish. Like a better liege/vassal system. Don't get me wrong I think this is awesome but there is always work to be done in polishing.

Granted polishing usually requires the stuff to be free patch so they really needs to add content that can be opted out of too in order to fund the free patches.
 

sreckom92

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I am not against the expansion i just want the game to be polished a bit before expanding it .
But the game IS getting polished with this expansion. Horse Lords will not push the start date back, or extend the map dramatically. It will improve the current map, and enhance the game-play of characters currently on the map.
Maybe you expected that improvement and polish on a different part of the map?
RoI (adding india) SoI (adding playable muslims) ToG (adding time) SSI (not sure I agree this is wide but it certainly didnt fix anything) CM (more time) and now this... isn't that more than half of the expansions. the ones that remain are SoA and WoL (which was very minor).
You are saying that depth is not all that much improving. I believe that it simply isn't improving in the direction that you would want.
All of those expansions improved the game somewhere. Although 2 expansions extended the start date, they also provided new content. Rajas of India benefited the rest of the map (notably Persia).
If you were to put aside technical issues and bugs, those expansions were pretty good.
 
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sreckom92

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But, sir, one MUST consider issues and bugs when evaluating a program! Virtually any application is just perfect otherwise
Indeed, but my point was that most of those expansions went on to improve the current map.
Also, issues that plagued the expansions are mostly gone.
 

toroltao

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My main concern about expanding the game is bad history. Information on Central Asia and China isn't exactly abundant, and the wiki pages for those areas are so awful they might as well be non-existent.
 
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mrstevehazzard

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So I'm wondering, will the Sogdians in 769 be Zoroastrian nomads?