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It's time for the weekly dev diary and this time it's a biggie, as we proudly announce Horse Lords, the new Crusader Kings II expansion! So what makes the proud rulers of the endless steppes unique? Well, in short, their relative lack of permanent settlements. This expansion gives the nomadic peoples of the steppes a unique type of gameplay which is not centered around Castles, Temples and Cities at all. Playing as a Nomad, you are allowed to conquer and even own normal Holdings, but they are worth little to you except as vassal cash cows. What you really care about is more grazing land for your sheep and horses. Thus, nomad hordes simply have a total population, which grows relative to how many empty Holding slots exist in your provinces (steppe provinces are best, but some other terrain types are also acceptable).

Crusader Kings II - Nomad Population.jpg


A large fraction of your total Population counts as your Manpower, which is used to raise your regiments (much like the Retinue system.) Of course, if all your fighting men are dead, it will be a while before your Manpower replenishes! War on the steppes is fast and fluid; you only occupy an empty province for as long as one of your armies is standing there, or if you build a fort there to lock it down... and even then, you do not get much war score from the open wastes.

Crusader Kings II - The Empty Steppe.jpg


This brings us to the one Holding that actually means a lot to the hordes; their capital. Each nomad clan can only one of this special holding type, but there are more upgrades for it than any of the regular types, and these improvements have more unique effects too... To really defeat a nomad horde, you need to occupy their capital (or decisively beat them in battle, of course.) However, Nomads are allowed to move their capital around often; and that means they actually pull up stakes, 'buildings' and all, and move the whole thing to another location!

Crusader Kings II - Raising Hordes.jpg


Another special twist to the nomadic hordes is that even in defeat, they are still dangerous. Should a horde lose its last province, the tribe will still exist, and may use its remaining armies to conquer another land in which to settle. Naturally, nomads can choose to settle on a more permanent basis, by completely switching over to a Feudal, Tribal or Republican lifestyle. This is done by special decision, reminiscent of how Tribes work.

Now, as the astute among you might have wondered, Crusader Kings is largely about managing your turbulent vassals, so what replaces that important gameplay aspect for the Nomads? The answer to that, my friends, is the Clans, and that will be the subject of next week's dev diary! Until then...


Khaaaan.jpg
 
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Where is the promised piece of change log?
 
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Any chance we get Manichean and Nestorian fleshed out now, since there were historically hordes that adhered to both?

Also, in the spirit of Eurovision just passed, can we get the achievement "Dschinghis Khan" for conquering de jure Germany as the Mongols?
 
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Hopefully...

But time to get serious... so Groogy will holy sites be safe from destruction? If not then will we be able to rebuild them, and will it still cause problems (like breaking the religious screen causing crashes)? and finally with the map expansion will any of the Tengri holy sites be moved?
You can turn the entire world into ash if so is the will of the Khan
 
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Wait, wait, wait.

Could I hypothetically raze every single non-capital holding on the map to make room for my horde if I conquered the whole damn thing? I understand that this means I would be giving up vassal cash cows and killing the income of the entire world, but can I do it?

Bonus question: Can I raze the special temple holdings important to other faiths to make room for population? Would this seriously impact the moral authority of the realm in question?

I have this vision of sacking Rome and Mecca and razing them both to the ground in the name of Tengri (and to make room for more horses).
As nomads you can completely level Constantinople if you spend enough effort on it. (probably gonna take more than 10 years of constant burning it)
 
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Looks nice, like the new emperor ring,

Manpower? What? Is this a Steppe Horde thing only? Or are we actually putting in a mechanic that will stop empires from bleeding there army dry in a war, demobilizing for about 2 years and being back to full strength?

Also is that a Zoroastrian Steppe Horde?

Only hordes, and yes its a Manichean Horde
 
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What is the reasoning behind making hordes empire level? Does that just mean that they can vassalise kings and below, usurp/destroy empires, and cannot be vassalised themselves? Can clans usurp the horde or declare independence to form their own horde?

Pretty much everything in this post. Yes the clans can force a new Khan or form their own horde.
 
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Will Northern Africa and inner Arabia contain any nomads? Will actual nomads be responsible for decadence revolts now?

EDIT: I'm super excited! This is so awesome! I bet the Game of Thrones mod people are ecstatic, too.
 
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The crusades are fairly key events in the ck2 era, and they generally never succeed unless the player plays catholic and make sure they do. The early crusades were massive sucesses.

Huh? Even the 1101 mini-Crusade was soundly defeated by the Turks under Kiliji Arslan. Aleppo was captured by non-Christian forces in 1128, and was one of the reasons the Pope called for a second crusade.

The actual Second Crusade took Lisbon in 1147 (good for them), but the main body in the Holy Land failed to take Damascus.

The initial crusade against the Wends in 1147 was a failure, although the Scandinavians managed to eventually defeat the Wends later (ironically enough, when no Papal Bulls officially calling for crusades were promulgated, making them Holy Wars in CK2 terms).

The Third Crusade could hardly be called a victory since Saladin still held Jerusalem. That's certainly not a successful crusade in CK2 terms.

The Northern Crusades were largely successful once the Livonian Sword Brothers and Teutonic Knights got involved, as the local Christians were unsuccessful in conquering the pagan Prussians by themselves. In the game, the Baltic pagans tend to get wiped out once Christians in the region get access to holy orders. Seems historical to me.

The Fourth Crusade didn't even attack non-Christians and instead took Constantinople. Call that a win if you want, but it doesn't even seem to meet the game criteria for a crusade.

The Albigensian Crusade was a success.

Seems to me, just looking at the first century of crusading, that the crusades were not a massive success.

it's only later that they start getting repelled. Catholicism realy does quite badly in game, in reality it spread like a wildfire. Being expelled from the holy land was basically the only major defeat of catholic powers as the hands of others in the period.

Hmm, spread like wildfire and the only major defeat of Catholic powers in the period? I don't think so.

Aside from the crusades I listed earlier, let's look at some other defeats.

In 1249, the King of France, Louis IX, was captured during his campaign to take Egypt. (You know him better as Saint Louis.) He also later loses in an attempt to take Tunisia.

In 1244, the Khwarezm took Jerusalem, defeating the Christians there just like they defeated everyone else.

In 1195, Catholics lose the battle of Alarcos, resulting in a retreat to Toledo and the Almohads taking a bunch of stuff.

In 1221, crusaders are beaten and surrender in Egypt, bringing the Fifth Crusade to a miserable end.

There are countless cases of temporary successes (Sixth Crusade comes to mind), but aside from gains in Iberia, long term successes were lacking in the Holy Land, Anatolia, North Africa, and Egypt.

In fact, the consistent inability of Catholicism to take and hold territory in certain areas suggests that Catholics had an easier time defeating or converting pagans than defeating or converting Muslims. Which is more or less how it works in the game.
 
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Only hordes, and yes its a Manichean Horde
damn, I have felt like this game really needs a mechanic to put defeated empires and kingdoms in there grave, since as it stands now, nations only have to wait a few months to regain military strength unlike say EU4 or Vicky 3 where if a nation loses all its manpower they often easily get dog piled and partitioned, but in CK2 levies, especially vassal levies seem to come back way too quick, makes it near impossible for rebels or hosts in win since even if they can win a battle or two, the ruler can just come back with another army in a year or so and the host doesn't get to replenish they have to suffer siege attrition instead
 
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First! (Because I had to unlock the achievement, damnit!)

If the retinues need to replenish after taking losses will it cost manpower?
 
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It has been 3 years since this game came out and i am still waiting for actual crusades.I mean come on its right there in the title Crusader Kings how about an actual expansion that expands that field.

I can see that you are new to the forum. Doomdark has said that the name is unfortunate because it doesn't represent what the game is about. But it is too late to change. The name is therefore an invalid argument when discussing the game's content.
 
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