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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #8 - Institutions

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Let’s talk about Government Institutions! These are the “services” your government provides to its Pops - and I use scare quotes here because while that does certainly include things like schools and workplace safety controls, it also means conscription offices, militarized police, and poorhouses.

While Laws are political hot buttons with your Interest Groups, Institutions are a side effect of those Laws, and it’s not as politically fraught to expand your pre-existing health care system as it is to establish or dismantle it. But the Laws that bring an Institution into existence also govern what side effects they have, and Interest Groups will care a lot about those.

As we all know, Institutions run on Bureaucracy like gamers run on caffeine (I would have said “cars run on gas”, but that isn’t universally true anymore, is it?). Bureaucracy comes from Government Administration buildings, which employ Clerks and Bureaucrats that consume Paper (and later on other goods, like Telephones) in the process. The more Government Administration buildings you have, the more and larger Institutions you can operate at once.

Running a positive Bureaucracy balance is great for remaining responsive to your people’s evolving needs. In the meantime, any excess Bureaucracy will be used to marginally improve construction efforts around your country.
dd08_1.png

The cost of Institutions, or the cost of one level of an Institution, is dependent on the size of the population across your Incorporated states. An important aspect of Institutions is that the effects and benefits they apply only affect Incorporated parts of your country - if you have any colonial frontiers, contested territory, or recently annexed land you haven’t Incorporated yet, these do not pay taxes to you nor do they cost you Bureaucracy, but they also can’t access your awesome hospitals.

Ways of decreasing the cost of providing Institutions to your people include:
  • Passing Laws to decentralize your Bureaucracy with elected rather than appointed officials
  • Society inventions like Behaviorism that provide insight into people management
  • Refraining from Incorporating colonies and conquered territories
  • Sending a whole bunch of people to their deaths in terrible wars (warning: side effects may vary)
dd08_2.png

Currently planned Institutions are:
  • School System - educates your populace
  • Health System - increases your population health
  • Police - decreases the effects of Turmoil
  • Workplace Safety - reduces workplace mortality
  • Social Security - impacts how poor your population can get
  • Home Affairs - counteracts revolutionary sentiment
  • Conscription - lets you recruit civilians as conscripts during wartime
  • Colonial Affairs - advances your colonial frontiers

To establish these Institutions you have to have sufficient Bureaucracy for their operation, and then enact an enabling Law. There are always several different Laws that enable a certain Institution, and which you choose will “flavor” the Institution accordingly. For example, the Colonial Affairs Institution will generate colonial growth in all your established colonies in relation to the size of your Incorporated population, by encouraging people to move and invest there. But if you have the Colonial Resettlement Law each level of it will also provide increased colonial migration pull to entice your population to move there, while the Colonial Exploitation Law will increase the throughput of colonial industries while reducing the Standard of Living of Pops who live there.

Switzerland has 3 levels of Religious Schools, 1 level of Local Law Enforcement, and 1 level of a Private Health System with a second level currently in progress.
dd08_3.png

The Bureaucracy you invest into Institutions can be redistributed as needed, but this takes time. For example, if you have a level 3 Health System and level 2 Home Affairs, and a per-level cost of 142 Bureaucracy, you’re paying 710 Bureaucracy for the privilege which you have to generate from Government Administration buildings. But if your population grows such that each level costs 173 instead, maintaining these levels will cost you 865. Assuming this puts you at a deficit of -155 Bureaucracy, you will suffer a pretty hefty Tax Waste penalty, which causes a percentage of all taxes collected to never quite make it all the way to your treasury.

In response to this disaster you may be forced to reduce the level of one of these Institutions, which will restore your Bureaucracy balance to +18 while you expand your bureaucracy to be able to regain the lost level. If you took the level from the Health System, your Pops will suffer reduced health in the interim, while if you reduce Home Affairs, you better hope you have no anarchist bomb-throwers lurking around in the shadows. Since Institutions expand gradually, restoring your lost level will take some time, so if possible it’s best to stay ahead of the change and expand your Government Administration proactively if you experience strong population growth or immigration waves to your incorporated states.

That’s all for Institutions! Until next week!
 
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wilcoxchar

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Very interesting. Having which law you have enacted affect what each institution does is great and opens up a lot of possibilities. Good stuff.
 

Zalthor

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The Government Administrations that provide Bureaucracy is the cost, and it's a substantial one.
This seems very questionable. There would be additional costs with some of the institutions (such as social security, which pays a certain amount to pops that would otherwise be below the poverty line) beyond simply paying more bureaucrats to manage the new welfare system.
 
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wilcoxchar

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It says "Government Administration in West Switzerland", so I take bureaucracy is now produced and spent locally, based on states. Am I wrong?
Bureaucracy is produced by government administration buildings located in states, but it goes to the national capacity.
 

LucasG21

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So does that mean we are now able to incorporate colonies into our central government with little to no restrictions? If so, I'm suddenly very excited! It would be very nice to fulfil the dream of the Propaganda Movement and integrate Cuba and the Philippines as integral and fully equal nations within the Kingdom of Spain, to say nothing of Luso-Tropicalism and the Francophone évolué projects.

Also, if you overreach over double your bureaucratic capacity, will you automatically lose institution levels, or is 0% taxation the only malus?
 
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IsaacCAT

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In response to this disaster you may be forced to reduce the level of one of these Institutions, which will restore your Bureaucracy balance to +18 while you expand your bureaucracy to be able to regain the lost level. If you took the level from the Health System, your Pops will suffer reduced health in the interim, while if you reduce Home Affairs, you better hope you have no anarchist bomb-throwers lurking around in the shadows. Since Institutions expand gradually, restoring your lost level will take some time, so if possible it’s best to stay ahead of the change and expand your Government Administration proactively if you experience strong population growth or immigration waves to your incorporated states.

From this paragraph it seems that you could change your nation institutions from one focus to another just reducing the level on some and increasing the others. Bureaucracy is neutral and does not understand if it is used for schools or for colonization? Isn't it a bit odd? We all like to bash bureaucrats but they are people with a mindset.

It is not only a matter of time (since institutions expand gradually) but IMHO institutions should have a cultural/political component besides the bureaucracy cost. If the cultural/political aspect is not included, all nations will expand their institutions for the max benefit without any national flavour.

On this regard, Institutions seem to be designed for the benefit of the player. Historically, institutions were the result of social change and at the same time they produced social upheaval. Are you planning to introduce other Institutions than the ones created by the player using bureaucracy? e.g. art academies, workers schools, masons, unions, press, music groups, guilds, sports associations, etc...
 
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dahan24

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since colonial policy is tied to law does this make it impossible to have one colony that is focused on settlement and another that is focused on exploitation?
 
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Clophiroth

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2. Why do institutions at various levels expand political strength of certain Interest Groups? In Swiss example in particular - why does devout gain 60% political strength increase instead of just becoming more content?


Because it´s the Religious Schools law: The Church is in control of schooling, which naturally increases their power.
 
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Hammrtime

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Another Great Dev Diary.

I am curious about the institution costs and if they scale upwards in certain situations. An example being the conscription office needs more bureaucracy during a war as you are no longer just signing people up but also calling them up.
 

Palna Thoke

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The Government Administrations that provide Bureaucracy is the cost, and it's a substantial one.
Okay got it, so the GA building represents much of the public sector in a way: stuff like schools, police stations etc.
In that case it would be cool if employment changed a bit with institution levels. Like if you had the law enforcement institution to then employ a percentage of servicemen in the building instead of only clerks and bureaucrats.
 
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EntropyAvatar

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The cost of Institutions, or the cost of one level of an Institution, is dependent on the size of the population across your Incorporated states. An important aspect of Institutions is that the effects and benefits they apply only affect Incorporated parts of your country - if you have any colonial frontiers, contested territory, or recently annexed land you haven’t Incorporated yet, these do not pay taxes to you nor do they cost you Bureaucracy, but they also can’t access your awesome hospitals.
This seems like you could have pretty weird scenarios. Like say you conquer but don't incorporate a well-developed state with a lot of government admin buildings. You get Bureaucracy from them which you can use to provide healthcare, education and policing in distant incorporated states that have no government buildings. At the same time the state where the doctors, nurses, teachers and police officers live and work has none of these services.
 
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MTGian

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For example, the Colonial Affairs Institution will generate colonial growth in all your established colonies in relation to the size of your Incorporated population, by encouraging people to move and invest there. But if you have the Colonial Resettlement Law each level of it will also provide increased colonial migration pull to entice your population to move there, while the Colonial Exploitation Law will increase the throughput of colonial industries while reducing the Standard of Living of Pops who live there.
Oh, so the type of colony won't be set on a per-colony basis? That's a pity...
Hmmm. This does seem a little bit problematic. If I am the USA and I am both expanding west and have colonies in Africa, then I am forced to pick between either exploiting the western colonial frontier or encouraging migration to Africa?
 
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PhilzuNeide

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To make sure I fully understand this: Each level of an institution costs the same amount of bureaucracy and also costs the same as a level from a different institution? So Schools level 1 would cost the same as Social Security going from 4 to 5?
 
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Melian Erios

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Hey, I'm loving the sounds of all this, only just got around to reading the dev diaries today, I have a few questions related to the past few dev diaries :)

- You've mentioned anarchists a few times in past dev diaries, if they undertook a successful revolution how do they function within this governance system described this and last week? Also will left anarchists actually be represented in Victoria 3, unlike the situation in Victoria II?
- How / when are interest group leaders replaced? Is there a chance for an interest group to get a leader they end up disagreeing with, can the interest group end up replacing them?
- With some laws it seems they've been made mutually exclusive when that might not be so representative, eg. with the education system, it sounds like religious, private, and public schools are mutually exclusive, when in reality this is often not the case and many countries have and have had a mix of these. Are there any plans around this and similar things?
 
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NilsFabian

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Paradox promoting the libertarien nightmare. All hail the Bureaucracy. As a german I approve the message.

Will there be a tooltip explanation how the numbers for the bureaucratic upkeep are calculated
 
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YaBoiSomeone

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Hey, I'm loving the sounds of all this, only just got around to reading the dev diaries today, I have a few questions related to the past few dev diaries :)

- You've mentioned anarchists a few times in past dev diaries, if they undertook a successful revolution how do they function within this governance system described this and last week? Also will left anarchists actually be represented in Victoria 3, unlike the situation in Victoria II?
- How / when are interest group leaders replaced? Is there a chance for an interest group to get a leader they end up disagreeing with, can the interest group end up replacing them?
- With some laws it seems they've been made mutually exclusive when that might not be so representative, eg. with the education system, it sounds like religious, private, and public schools are mutually exclusive, when in reality this is often not the case and many countries have and have had a mix of these. Are there any plans around this and similar things?
For The Anarchists, i believe it would be something like a grand council and other councils that have to agree with the grand councils decisions
 

MTGian

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This seems like you could have pretty weird scenarios. Like say you conquer but don't incorporate a well-developed state with a lot of government admin buildings. You get Bureaucracy from them which you can use to provide healthcare, education and policing in distant incorporated states that have no government buildings. At the same time the state where the doctors, nurses, teachers and police officers live and work has none of these services.
If government administration buildings are not built in population centers, then that is going to be quite immersion breaking for me.

If I understand correctly, the problem is that there is a lot abstracted into GA buildings. We have the local government, government service buildings (police, hospitals, etc), and the federal government. I have no problem with federal government buildings being focused in the capital, but if local government and government service buildings are not located in population centers, then that is going to bug me.
 
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Zalthor

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- You've mentioned anarchists a few times in past dev diaries, if they undertook a successful revolution how do they function within this governance system described this and last week? Also will left anarchists actually be represented in Victoria 3, unlike the situation in Victoria II?
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From the Everything We Know So Far thread.
 
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