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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #77 - Military Improvements

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Hello everyone, it’s Nik here again to give you all a look at the changes we have been working on for the military. Last time I was in a Dev Diary was back during Game Jam Part 1. I recommend taking a look back at the first parts of the dev diary to get all the information about changes that Guilherme and I had done. It's only been 2 months since the last patch, but with everything getting added lately I still can’t believe it was that short of a time, so let's hope I don’t forget anything.

Battle Condition Changes
Where to start? I guess the first place would probably be Battle Condition Rerolls. During battles there is now a chance that Battle Conditions will be rerolled multiple times throughout the course of the battle. When a Battle Condition is rerolled, there is a 10 day waiting period before the chance for it to reroll again. After the 10 days, each tick will increase the chance of the Battle Condition changing by 2%. This will repeat until the battle is over.

DD77_1.jpg

Command Script Changes
One of the biggest quality of life changes made was the amount of changes to what we refer to as the command scripts, a series of scripted values that decides how a war will progress. The goal of these changes is to remove as much randomness as possible when it comes to which general is picked to lead the battle, the amount of troops being allocated to said battle, and selection of the provinces when the battle is to take place.

Firstly, when it comes to the selection of generals (as previously brought up in the Game Jam Part 1 dev diary) there are now more factors in consideration for selecting the general who will lead the battle when the advancement bar goes up. Generals that have specialized defensive or offensive traits now have an increased chance of being selected. This will make it less likely that a general with the Expert Defensive Strategist Trait will lead an offensive battle while your Experienced Offensive Planner Trait general is left behind twiddling his thumbs. The troops under the command of the general are also taken into account. If one general has more modern troops as their base PM then that general and thus those units will also have a higher chance of being selected for the battle.

The size of battles used to be determined mainly by the infrastructure of a state. After that, it would compare the average offensive and defensive values of both sides, potentially boosting the numerical advantage of the side with inferior troops to compensate. These were the main determining factors for bringing more troops to a battle. We have now revamped the script to make it so these checks feel more impactful for having more troops.

After the province is selected, the script will go through the following checks to determine the size of the battle:
  • Start with the total number of battalions on the front
  • Subtract a random number of battalions proportional to the length of the front
  • Cap by a force limit determined by the battle province's infrastructure and combat width
  • Increase the side with the most battalions by a random value proportional to their relative numeric advantage

The final big change is the province selection. For this we have implemented additional checks and Strategic Objectives, which we will talk about in the following section. We have added a more reliable way of measuring the distance to either the closest Strategic Objective or the closest Wargoal, and scoring provinces higher the closer they are. When choosing a battle location, a few of the highest scoring provinces will be picked out and then the battle will be selected to take place at one of them. The group of provinces will be selected based on whether an active Strategic Objective applies to that front or not. If no Strategic Objective is placed then it will default to the closest Wargoal.

Strategic Objectives
Now for the big addition to the military system for 1.2, Strategic Objectives. I hinted at it a little before but we will go through it now. Strategic objectives are a way for the player to more control the direction in which a front advances. The player can now target a state per theater for their generals to attack towards. The Strategic Objective will not be removed until after the war is concluded or if the state is conquered by another nation. This is to allow you to keep the state targeted so if control is lost in that state, subsequent battles will target it again automatically. As stated in the last section, not selecting a strategic objective won't prevent a specific push in a direction. The generals will still go after the closest wargoals.

DD77_2.jpg

War Exhaustion Changes
The next change is to War Exhaustion. Some of these changes have been brought up in Dev Diary 75, go and check that one out again if you want additional information. War exhaustion wasn’t working in a way that we enjoyed. Taking a small amount of land holding it until the war was over is all that was required to get enough of a ticking war exhaustion and waiting till the end. We wanted to shift this so casualties will have a higher impact on the war itself. To this end we increased the impact on War Exhaustion for casualties, and decreased the amount of exhaustion for taking a small amount of land. However, the amount of exhaustion will now scale based on the amount of land that is occupied, the more land you occupy the more the exhaustion will scale up instead of being a percentage of a fixed value that correlates to the amount of land occupied.

DD77_3.png

Misc Quality of Life
It’s time to move on to the Quality of Life changes. These are the changes to the Equipment Adjustment modifier for military buildings, better information regarding selection of units and stopping reinforcements from joining during active battles.

Let's start with the changes to the Equipment Adjustment Modifier for military buildings when switching Production methods. The modifier has been increased from 75% to 80%, however there is now a second modifier for all the secondary Production method groups. This modifier is only a 20% reduction in the offense and defense of your units. If you swap out both a primary and secondary Production Method at the same time, it will combine to a 100%. Swapping out Artillery, Reconnaissance or Specialist Companies will not reset the primary modifier like it did previously.

DD77_4.jpg


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Another change we did was to the amount of information given to the player when there is an ongoing battle. Now in the Battle Tab, next to the Start of Battle number of soldiers, there is now an information icon that allows you to see how the size of the battle is being determined.

DD77_6.png

Additionally, we have included a tracker for the amount of men that have become Demoralized in battle and are no longer able to participate in the battle.

DD77_7.png


Finally the last change we have added to the battles is that battalions currently engaged in battle will never be reinforced by their barracks hiring new soldiers. New manpower generated from the new servicemen will join the battalions only after they have detached from the battle. This could frequently lead to battles lasting forever as both sides would just keep cycling in more and more troops effectively making the front unable to move.

That’s all from me. Thank you again to all of you who participated in the Open Beta. I will see you all again next time for the 1.2 Patchnotes.
 
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This comment is reserved by the Community Team for gathering Dev Responses in, for ease of reading.



Premium576 said:


Having played the beta a fair bit, I really like all of these changes, they make the warfare feel a whole lot better (and less frustrating, particularly with the strategic objectives.) Only possible complaint is that in the early game, I found wars could end very quickly due to the war exhaustion from casualties ticking up rapidly with the early military PMs and no techs reducing it. But I suppose this might actually be effectively modelling warfare at that time, so not really a complaint!
The numbers are definitely not 'done' in the open beta, war exhaustion from casualties has been majorly tuned down for the release version of 1.2 and other values like battle size have had some bugs fixed in them.
 
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Thank you again to all of you who participated in the Open Beta.​

I enjoyed the Open Beta tremendously. If ever the dev team has nothing to post in a given week, I'd love to hear from your experience with the OB in a dev diary!
 
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Looks intriguing! Hopefully this will lead to more enjoyable wars, though it's hard to say before I get my hands on it.

Will there be a way to see how the offensive / defensive score is calculated in a given battle?
 
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I've always liked the principles of warfare for Vic3, but felt it was too hands offs for my liking. With something as simple as Strategic Objectives I feel like I have a say in what my army does in the field. My enjoyment of warfare has thus gone up a lot. Do keep up with these warfare features please.
 
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If I understood this correctly, it means that longer a front is the less troops will be fighting at any given battle. If fronts are still limited by one battle at a time, won't this have an odd effect that longer a front is the longer it takes for any battles and casualties to happen? So a hypothetical Russian-Chinese front would see less men involved and less casualties over the course of say 3 years, than a Chinese-Korean one even if less troops are involved in Chinese-Korean front?

I feel like this only exacerbates some of the issues game currently has with long fronts, making them even more stagnant and uneventful, which feels counter-intuitive and counter-productive. Perhaps it might be prudent to split some of the longer fronts. Perhaps by adding a maximum front length which takes into consideration how many troops are subtracted by length of front. Say if more than half of troops would be removed from the battle, then it splits into two fronts.

Considering there can be sometimes as many as 5 to 10 fronts in some of the smaller areas of Europe with many belligerents or Southeast Asia with many belligerents and islands, I don't see why some of the larger fronts couldn't also be split to at least 2-3 fronts. Otherwise this can very well lead to very little progress or war exhaustion happening on the Russo-Chinese front, because both number of battles and the number of casualties would be very limited.
 
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Not too sure about bonus battalions from numerical superiority being applied after the infrastructure cap, but my impression has been skewed by the bug where the side the with the most brigades on a front always has twice the batallions in every battle
 
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Having played the beta a fair bit, I really like all of these changes, they make the warfare feel a whole lot better (and less frustrating, particularly with the strategic objectives.) Only possible complaint is that in the early game, I found wars could end very quickly due to the war exhaustion from casualties ticking up rapidly with the early military PMs and no techs reducing it. But I suppose this might actually be effectively modelling warfare at that time, so not really a complaint!
 
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These are some nice changes! I want to point out that after playing the beta for some time, I still don't understand the tooltip for number of regiments in battle.

In your example, there are 140 regiments in the front (that one is easy to understand). Then, 18 regiments are subtracted: is that the random number you were referring to? Not sure where the 18 comes from. After that, it says that forest CW is 0.6 and the state has 50 infra, so 103 regiments are subtracted. Again, I'm not sure where this number comes from: is it due to it being forest? or to only having 50 infra? or both contribute some? How is the value determined? I'd put all of that in the tooltip (or in nested tooltips at least). Finally, 11 regiments are added because I have more troops than them at the front. That's intuitive, but again I'm not sure where that number comes from, how is it computed? I'm assuming it's also scaled by the state infra and terrain.

I'm asking all this because sometimes I want to fight with more units (and sometimes with fewer) and I'd like to know the math behind it to better understand how to do it.
 
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One small problem that I noticed with these changes is that now Texas, without heavy financial and material help from the US (unlikely to happen with the AI in control of the US), is going to always lose to Mexico. It seems impossible to win as Texas.
 
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I don't see why some of the larger fronts couldn't also be split to at least 2-3 fronts. Otherwise this can very well lead to very little progress or war exhaustion happening on the Russo-Chinese front, because both number of battles and the number of casualties would be very limited.
Given that both HoI4 and V3 have had persistent and annoying problems with front splitting (in particular gaps opening up), I'd be very keen to find an alternative solution. Good or even adequate front splitting requires giving the AI knowledge of the geographic context. This is possible in Clausewitz games (because the provinces are fixed at game start) but it would require a lot of scripting and PDX have never gone very far down this route in their recent games.
 
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Hello everyone, it’s Nik here again to give you all a look at the changes we have been working on for the military. Last time I was in a Dev Diary was back during Game Jam Part 1. I recommend taking a look back at the first parts of the dev diary to get all the information about changes that Guilherme and I had done. It's only been 2 months since the last patch, but with everything getting added lately I still can’t believe it was that short of a time, so let's hope I don’t forget anything.

Battle Condition Changes
Where to start? I guess the first place would probably be Battle Condition Rerolls. During battles there is now a chance that Battle Conditions will be rerolled multiple times throughout the course of the battle. When a Battle Condition is rerolled, there is a 10 day waiting period before the chance for it to reroll again. After the 10 days, each tick will increase the chance of the Battle Condition changing by 2%. This will repeat until the battle is over.


Command Script Changes
One of the biggest quality of life changes made was the amount of changes to what we refer to as the command scripts, a series of scripted values that decides how a war will progress. The goal of these changes is to remove as much randomness as possible when it comes to which general is picked to lead the battle, the amount of troops being allocated to said battle, and selection of the provinces when the battle is to take place.

Firstly, when it comes to the selection of generals (as previously brought up in the Game Jam Part 1 dev diary) there are now more factors in consideration for selecting the general who will lead the battle when the advancement bar goes up. Generals that have specialized defensive or offensive traits now have an increased chance of being selected. This will make it less likely that a general with the Expert Defensive Strategist Trait will lead an offensive battle while your Experienced Offensive Planner Trait general is left behind twiddling his thumbs. The troops under the command of the general are also taken into account. If one general has more modern troops as their base PM then that general and thus those units will also have a higher chance of being selected for the battle.

The size of battles used to be determined mainly by the infrastructure of a state. After that, it would compare the average offensive and defensive values of both sides, potentially boosting the numerical advantage of the side with inferior troops to compensate. These were the main determining factors for bringing more troops to a battle. We have now revamped the script to make it so these checks feel more impactful for having more troops.

After the province is selected, the script will go through the following checks to determine the size of the battle:
  • Start with the total number of battalions on the front
  • Subtract a random number of battalions proportional to the length of the front
  • Cap by a force limit determined by the battle province's infrastructure and combat width
  • Increase the side with the most battalions by a random value proportional to their relative numeric advantage

The final big change is the province selection. For this we have implemented additional checks and Strategic Objectives, which we will talk about in the following section. We have added a more reliable way of measuring the distance to either the closest Strategic Objective or the closest Wargoal, and scoring provinces higher the closer they are. When choosing a battle location, a few of the highest scoring provinces will be picked out and then the battle will be selected to take place at one of them. The group of provinces will be selected based on whether an active Strategic Objective applies to that front or not. If no Strategic Objective is placed then it will default to the closest Wargoal.

Strategic Objectives
Now for the big addition to the military system for 1.2, Strategic Objectives. I hinted at it a little before but we will go through it now. Strategic objectives are a way for the player to more control the direction in which a front advances. The player can now target a state per theater for their generals to attack towards. The Strategic Objective will not be removed until after the war is concluded or if the state is conquered by another nation. This is to allow you to keep the state targeted so if control is lost in that state, subsequent battles will target it again automatically. As stated in the last section, not selecting a strategic objective won't prevent a specific push in a direction. The generals will still go after the closest wargoals.


War Exhaustion Changes
The next change is to War Exhaustion. Some of these changes have been brought up in Dev Diary 75, go and check that one out again if you want additional information. War exhaustion wasn’t working in a way that we enjoyed. Taking a small amount of land holding it until the war was over is all that was required to get enough of a ticking war exhaustion and waiting till the end. We wanted to shift this so casualties will have a higher impact on the war itself. To this end we increased the impact on War Exhaustion for casualties, and decreased the amount of exhaustion for taking a small amount of land. However, the amount of exhaustion will now scale based on the amount of land that is occupied, the more land you occupy the more the exhaustion will scale up instead of being a percentage of a fixed value that correlates to the amount of land occupied.

Misc Quality of Life
It’s time to move on to the Quality of Life changes. These are the changes to the Equipment Adjustment modifier for military buildings, better information regarding selection of units and stopping reinforcements from joining during active battles.

Let's start with the changes to the Equipment Adjustment Modifier for military buildings when switching Production methods. The modifier has been increased from 75% to 80%, however there is now a second modifier for all the secondary Production method groups. This modifier is only a 20% reduction in the offense and defense of your units. If you swap out both a primary and secondary Production Method at the same time, it will combine to a 100%. Swapping out Artillery, Reconnaissance or Specialist Companies will not reset the primary modifier like it did previously.


Another change we did was to the amount of information given to the player when there is an ongoing battle. Now in the Battle Tab, next to the Start of Battle number of soldiers, there is now an information icon that allows you to see how the size of the battle is being determined.

Additionally, we have included a tracker for the amount of men that have become Demoralized in battle and are no longer able to participate in the battle.

View attachment 952063

Finally the last change we have added to the battles is that battalions currently engaged in battle will never be reinforced by their barracks hiring new soldiers. New manpower generated from the new servicemen will join the battalions only after they have detached from the battle. This could frequently lead to battles lasting forever as both sides would just keep cycling in more and more troops effectively making the front unable to move.

That’s all from me. Thank you again to all of you who participated in the Open Beta. I will see you all again next time for the 1.2 Patchnotes.
Please please fix the issue with invading army teleporting back to homeland after successful battle, this has quite a potential to completely break some wars
 
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Playing a bit with it in MP with some friends, the change from land hold to casualties is absolutely amazing in terms of how the wars feel when being played out, both for Major vs Major as well as Minor vs Major. It also increases the importance of conscripts to stave off capitulation through casualties and helps makes wars more costly if going at it as well as just making conscripts feel like a good choice. All in all I do love it, especially when considering that now you can add the less WE from casualties modifier to more tech or events in moding and make it feel like an impactful bonus to get.

What I'd like to see, if we can get it for 1.2, is expanding on the "Battalions across length of front" piece of the UI. -18 in the screenshot tells us something, but it feels cryptic? Is it possible to also show a Current vs Parity value as well, or better explain that mechanic? It may just me being dumb and not understanding it, but it's the one piece of the UI that seems to not make sense at a glance if you don't already understand how it works.
 
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The troops under the command of the general are also taken into account. If one general has more modern troops as their base PM then that general and thus those units will also have a higher chance of being selected for the battle.​
Please give this feature an on-off switch.
Maybe I want to use my lesser-quality troops to soften up the enemy first.
Or maybe even to spend some troublesome and aggressive colonial pops.
 
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I find it so weird that your soldiers seemingly forget what a rifle is when you switch production methods.

A malus at the start and slowly scaling to the new pms strength I can see that. It takes time to get used to new equipment and tactics. But the way the modifier works your troops arent even able to fight with the equipment and tactics they already know anymore.
 
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"The player can now target a state per theater for their generals to attack towards."
How is theater defined programmatically?

"there is now an information icon"
Why did you feel we needed the information icon instead of just having it be a mouseover of the panel or the number of units at start value?

"If one general has more modern troops as their base PM then that general and thus those units will also have a higher chance of being selected for the battle."
Will the specialist PMs be considered when determining modernity of the troops? Are Flamethrower Companies more modern than Machine Gunner?

Is there a reason we need such a larger section of the battle panel used by the Generals gesticulating at each other in some sort of rap battle?
 
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This is good to see, but I believe the system will require further refinement if its going to be interesting - frontline management in form of secondary objectives, drawing preferred trenchlines/fortifying provinces and setting up preferred battle sites at weak points/pincer movements. This has potential if refined further, maybe finally ending the need for stacks, at least past Napoleonic warfare.
 
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