• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #7 - Laws

dd7.png


After a couple weeks vacation, we’ve now returned to our usual weekly dev diary schedule! Today we will be diving deeper into Victoria’s politics to talk about Laws. Legal reform in your country creates different political, economic, and social conditions for your Pops, which over time changes the fabric of your society. This change can be slow and incremental, or fast and revolutionary - sometimes literally.

There are three major categories of Laws with seven sub-categories in each, which themselves contain up to half a dozen specific Law options. As always everything here is being heavily iterated upon, including these sub-categories, so the laws you see at release will not exactly match what we’re telling you here!

Power Structure
These Laws determine who is in control of different aspects of your country. It includes fundamental Governance Principles such as Monarchy and Parliamentary Republic, which determine who your Head of State is and what kind of powers they wield. Distribution of Power ranges from Autocracy and Oligarchy through various extensions of the voting franchise all the way to Universal Suffrage. Citizenship and Church and State Laws govern which Pops suffer legal discrimination in your country due to their culture or religion. The principles on which your Bureaucracy is run - such as hereditary or elected positions for bureaucrats - determine how expensive it is to keep track of each citizen and how much Institutions cost to run, but also directly benefit some groups over others. Conscription lets you raise a part of your civilian workforce as soldiers in times of war, and Internal Security governs how the Home Affairs anti-insurgent Institution works.

The Power Structure Laws of a typical European nation after having made a few strides towards liberalization. The numbers in green refers to the number of alternative Laws currently available to be enacted. This indicator is used throughout the UI to reveal how many options a sub-menu has without having to open it.
dd7_1.png

Economy
This set of Laws define where your treasury’s money comes from and how it can be spent. Your Economic System is crucial - this governs whether your country operates on principles of Mercantilism, Isolationism, or Free Trade, among others. Income Tax determines which Pops should be taxed and what range of tax burden is appropriate. No Income Tax at all is of course an option, and legislation to such effect will make some Pops both rich and happy! Poll Taxation, or levying a fixed tax per head, is another option primarily used in less industrialized societies. (There are other avenues of taxation as well, but these are the ones driven by legislation.) Finally, you can choose what form the Institutions of Colonization, Policing, Education System, and Health System will take in your country. For example, you can keep government spending under control by instituting Charity Hospitals, which have limited effect and boost the power of the clergy, or you could pass a Public Health Insurance Law which is costlier but can have a greater impact on the health of the masses.

Payroll Taxes require reasonable lower-class wages and a centralized population to pay off, but if so can form the economic basis for a budding welfare system as seen here. A tax system based on Levying might be more lucrative in countries with huge Peasant populations.
dd7_2.png

Human Rights
Enshrining the rights of the individual was a hallmark of the era. These Laws define how your Pops are treated and what manner of control you can enforce over their lives. Free Speech determines the degree of control you can enforce over your Interest Groups but restrictive rights throttle the spread of innovation. The Labor Rights Laws include outlawing serfdom, but extends all the way to establishing a Workplace Safety Institution to reduce the number of people literally crushed in the jaws of industry. Children’s Rights and the Rights of Women have a number of effects such as shifting the Workforce/Dependent demographics, affecting Dependent income, and extending the franchise. Welfare ensures the poor and disabled in your society are taken care of. Migration Laws can be used to influence Pop migration. Slavery Laws determine the legal status of owning people in your country. More details on that subject in a future dev diary.

Not a lot of concessions have been made here, but at least children may congregate freely after the factory whistle signals the end of their grueling workday.
dd7_3.png

Laws are almost always completely independent from one another. You can create a Constitutional Monarchy with hereditary succession but Universal Suffrage, or an Autocratic Presidential Republic with a strongman leader at the top of the food chain. You can have a Secret Police and still permit fully Protected Speech.

Our aim is to set all countries up with the best fitting Laws compared to what they actually had in 1836. This will vary wildly between countries, and will greatly influence what sorts of conditions and strategies are available to you at the start of the game. For example, the USA starts with Total Separation of Church and State, ensuring no Pops suffer legal discrimination on account of their religion, while Sardinia-Piedmont doesn’t take kindly to non-Catholic Pops. This will affect Pops who live in the country currently, but will also limit which Pops might migrate there - few Pops would make it their preference to move to a country where they’re mistreated by law.

As a result of these starting Laws Sardinia-Piedmont might have to look towards colonization or conquest if they start to run out of their native workforce, while North America is likely to get regular migration waves to help expand the frontier. By connecting these effects to starting Laws, many historically appropriate and recognizable aspects and behaviors of Victorian-era nations - such as their attractiveness to immigrants - are connected to a tangible property (e.g. poor or oppressed Pops emigrating to the USA both because of its demand for workforce and also its liberal Laws) rather than being arbitrarily encoded into the very fabric of the nation itself, the approach previous Victoria games took to encourage history in the a familiar direction.

However, these starting Laws are far from set in stone! You might want to reform your Laws to better suit the direction your society is going - for example, you might want to transition your Bureaucracy from a system of Appointees to Elected Bureaucrats in order to more effectively provide services from Government Institutions to all your incorporated territories (or maybe just because you want to disempower the otherwise powerful Intelligentsia.) Or your country’s Agrarian economy has plateaued on account of increased reliance on imports of manufactured goods, and you want to change course to the exciting opportunities provided by a Free Trade policy.

A common effect of Laws is to modify some parameter about your country, like give you more Authority or reduce certain Pops’ Mortality. But Laws can also permit or disallow the use of certain actions, such as Public Schools which permit the Compulsory Primary School Law; permit the Decree to Promote Social Mobility in a certain state; and even alter the effects of other parts of your society, like boost the efficacy of your Education System Institution. Without some degree of separation between Church and State, this form of secular school system is not possible.
dd7_4.png

Another reason to change Laws is because your people demand it. As we touched on in the previous dev diary, Interest Groups have Ideologies that lead them to favor some Laws over others - for example, the Industrialists have the Individualist Ideology that cause them to favor privately operated Education and Healthcare systems over publicly funded ones, to ensure best access is given to those of merit and morals (or in other words, Wealth). Reforming your current Laws to work more in accordance with your powerful Interest Groups’ Ideologies is a quick way to win their Approval, permitting you more leeway to go against their wishes in the future or as a quick pick-me-up in case their Standard of Living has recently taken a hit.

The inverse is also true. Introduce a bill to abolish the Monarchy in Great Britain and see how the Landed Gentry feel about that.

Even Trade Unionists have a hard time saying no to zero income taxes, but even that won’t make up for restricting the vote!
dd7_6.png

Enacting a Law is far from an instantaneous, one-click affair. First off, any reform must be supported by at least one Interest Group in your government who can champion the change. Once the reform has begun it can be a smooth process that’s over in a matter of months, or it can take years of gruelling debate in parliament or horsetrading between Interest Groups in order to pass. The amount of time it takes depends both on your government’s Legitimacy in the eyes of the people, and also on the Clout of the Interest Groups in your government that supports and opposes the new Law relative to the one it’s replacing. While broader coalitions of Interest Groups in government give you more options of Laws to enact, it also complicates getting them passed.

Changing your laws isn’t an entirely straightforward process in Victoria 3! In this case it’s just a matter of time before the Law is enacted, but if dissenting Interest Groups had also been part of this government there would be plenty of room for Debate and Stalling tactics that could cause this reform to take more effort than it’s worth.
dd7_5.png

Let me close out here by tying all this back to the Pops. As we have touched on in past dev diaries, Pops have a Profession, collect an income, and consume goods depending on the economic preconditions you have created in your country. These material concerns in combination with a few others, such as Literacy, determine which Interest Groups they support. Other aspects, such as your country’s Laws, influence how much Political Strength the Pops provide to those Interest Groups. The Interest Groups have an Approval score and favor certain Laws over others. As a result, different groups of Pops approve more or less of the society you have built depending on their economic well-being, and their demands for change is more or less intimidating depending on how many and strong they are. You may choose to placate an angry group, or further benefit an already content group for extra benefits. But in doing so, some other group will become displeased. Have you built your society resilient enough to navigate these ebbs and flows? And most importantly, which of the many, many routes will you take to move forward?

That is all for me this week! In this dev diary I mentioned Institutions a number of times, and next Thursday I will be back with more details on this powerful society-shaping tool. Until then!
 
  • 267Like
  • 186Love
  • 16
  • 8
  • 6
Reactions:

fr-rein

General
35 Badges
Dec 29, 2014
1.988
16.114
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome Gold
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
This looks a bit like a law system from CK2/3, with your subjects liking it or not and you adjusting it to make them like it. It gives this kind of vibe, much more subject-sensitive than, say, Stellaris or even Vicky2.

What can I say, I do love it :)
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

wilcoxchar

Field Marshal
98 Badges
Nov 15, 2004
5.111
17.598
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
Victoria 2's upper and lower house split always felt really gamey to me. The split between Upper and Lower house responsibilities (as Victoria 2 depicts it) doesn't make much sense in most political systems.
The difference between the upper and lower houses was also was something you never really had to pay attention to. Consolidating the legislature into one entity is probably for the best in terms of making it clear and actually important to gameplay.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:

demanvanwezel

General
88 Badges
Mar 27, 2009
2.419
4.622
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Impire
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
I noticed Tariffs were missing from the Economic Laws section. Are they part of these laws, or handled in a separate way?
from what I've seen tarrifs are set per good now (as it should be)
 
  • 6Like
Reactions:

NilsFabian

What have the primitives ever done for us
152 Badges
Oct 24, 2015
1.058
2.396
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Impire
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Darkest Hour
  • Ancient Space
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Magicka 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
Will slavery be enshrined for the USA like in Vicky 2?
How difficult would it be for the USA to change this law?
Is the US civil war scripted or would we be able to prevent it totally?
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:

Avald

Sergeant
95 Badges
May 16, 2016
55
98
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
You will have that. The Pops have three traits: religion, heritage, and language. Accordingly, emigrants from England are less discriminated against than other Europeans and even less than black people. For example, a black pop might have the description: African heritage and English language. He's way down, though. But a pop with an African heritage and a French language is located further down.
I have a question, where did you hear about this heritage vs language thing? First time i have heard of this.
 

lokthar

Private
87 Badges
Aug 26, 2009
19
20
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
It sounds like every law change will have to be initiated by the player. Wouldn't this lead to bizarre situations like being able to play the whole game with the liberals in the government without passing a single liberal law?
They do say that there are other ways of groups making their will known. I'd have to imagine that if you had enough support for the liberals to have them in power the whole game, but didn't do enough to appease them, that they'd either loose support amongst their component pops, or engage in some sort of rebellion, whether armed or civil to get what they want.
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:

NilsFabian

What have the primitives ever done for us
152 Badges
Oct 24, 2015
1.058
2.396
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Impire
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Darkest Hour
  • Ancient Space
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Magicka 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
I think it will be IF you change that law (with others parameters) that you’ll get the civil war
You might be right. I've clarified what I meant in my origianl post.
It would be interesting to know if the Civil war is somehow scripted or if it could happen anyway or no way
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:

News_12

Recruit
71 Badges
Sep 4, 2019
1
3
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
Will there be more specialization in designing institutions within each law given here? For example, would it be possible to have Presidential system with a unicameral legislature made up of representatives elected by population? Or a Parliamentary system with a bicameral system composing representatives based on population and by province (or in the case of the US, state)?
 
Last edited:
  • 3Like
Reactions:

dragonluke

Colonel
39 Badges
Jan 27, 2016
838
3.032
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
I have a question, where did you hear about this heritage vs language thing? First time i have heard of this.
the guy gave the source but I have to clarify one thing
It's cultures that have heritage and language, not pops, so cultures belonging to the american culture have the same heritage and language
 
  • 4Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Nerva

Colonel
5 Badges
Mar 30, 2008
1.117
215
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
One V2 detail I didn't like when playing as USA was the way the President was called First Minister (or was it Prime Minister?). It's been years since I've played V2 but I also seem to recall the Senate in V2 didn't follow the same electoral rules (I don't think there were 6-year terms) as the real USA. Obviously it is more coding and AI complexity to have variations for every system out there, and much easier to have a generic parliamentary system, but given the importance of the USA during this time period, I think having the real election/government mechanics makes a big difference in immersion.
 
  • 5Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Renegade3231

Sergeant
72 Badges
Jun 8, 2018
73
150
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Empire of Sin
  • Majesty 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
How interactive is the Stall and Debate piece of enactment. Can the player interact with this system at all to swing votes? Is this an event chain or are these just number tickers that adjust themselves and we don’t see anything but those changes in percentages. I don’t think too much interactivity is needed as this system looks very well designed and interactive as it is but it could provide nice flavor, especially depending on if espionage is added at any level.
For example if I see that Lord Thomas is preventing the repealmeant of the labor laws, maybe he could have a…happy little accident that would result in impairment or worse?
Perhaps a similar system as the ck3 duel system but for debating instead of combat.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

LucasG21

Captain
81 Badges
Feb 23, 2017
402
2.916
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Empire of Sin - Premium Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Victoria 2
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
Will slavery be enshrined for the USA like in Vicky 2?
How difficult would it be for the USA to change this law?
Is the US civil war scripted or would we be able to prevent it totally?
This is entirely emergent from the simulation, which at the moment runs a little something like this:
1. Wealthy Aristocrats are more likely to support the Landowner Interest Group, which in the USA's case is called the Southern Planters and have a pro-Slavery stance
2. The American south has a lucrative Plantation industry at game start, with potential to expand that doesn't exist in the north
3. Pops in incorporated states gain more Political Strength than Pops in unincorporated states
4. Wealthier Pops gain more Political Strength on account of their wealth
5. More Political Strength means more power over the country's Laws, and a stronger reaction if the player tries to move away from favored Laws

Which means that it's the relative profitability of the American south's slave plantations that cause the Southern Planters to have the political support they do. If the player nurtures this type of plantation economy the institution of slavery will become an even more dominant and important fixture of US politics, whereas if they shift their economy towards manufacturing industries (perhaps in part fueled by resources from plantations in UNincorporated states, where the Aristocrats may be wealthy but not as politically empowered) or service/government workers, they may be able to effect a political shift away from slavery without a civil war.
This is Lachek's answer to your question.

Link: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/slave-interest-groups.1478113/post-27598349
 
  • 7
  • 1Like
Reactions:

priamossz

First Lieutenant
88 Badges
Feb 1, 2016
210
350
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • King Arthur II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
So we have a private and state healthcare option which to this day people continously debate about which one is the better option. How do you guys differentiate between the two?
 
  • 3Like
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:

Fallofthepurple

Colonel
49 Badges
May 30, 2013
947
8.289
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV
to this day people continously debate about which one is the better option
Do they though?

My assumption would be that in in-game terms State-funded healthcare is a strain on your budget but in return provides healthcare for people that wouldnt have it because they cant afford it or otherwise would have to rely on charity.
 
  • 16
Reactions:

Vernichtere

Lt. General
57 Badges
Mar 26, 2010
1.615
4.199
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Majesty 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris
So we have a private and state healthcare option which to this day people continously debate about which one is the better option. How do you guys differentiate between the two?
As such, there is no debate as to the implications. A state system will simply boost the health of the low-income population. There are no examples in which the private system causes complete coverage of the population. At most there is a debate about how expensive the whole thing should be and whether you can force people to pay for others.
 
  • 11
  • 1Like
Reactions: