• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #7 - Laws

dd7.png


After a couple weeks vacation, we’ve now returned to our usual weekly dev diary schedule! Today we will be diving deeper into Victoria’s politics to talk about Laws. Legal reform in your country creates different political, economic, and social conditions for your Pops, which over time changes the fabric of your society. This change can be slow and incremental, or fast and revolutionary - sometimes literally.

There are three major categories of Laws with seven sub-categories in each, which themselves contain up to half a dozen specific Law options. As always everything here is being heavily iterated upon, including these sub-categories, so the laws you see at release will not exactly match what we’re telling you here!

Power Structure
These Laws determine who is in control of different aspects of your country. It includes fundamental Governance Principles such as Monarchy and Parliamentary Republic, which determine who your Head of State is and what kind of powers they wield. Distribution of Power ranges from Autocracy and Oligarchy through various extensions of the voting franchise all the way to Universal Suffrage. Citizenship and Church and State Laws govern which Pops suffer legal discrimination in your country due to their culture or religion. The principles on which your Bureaucracy is run - such as hereditary or elected positions for bureaucrats - determine how expensive it is to keep track of each citizen and how much Institutions cost to run, but also directly benefit some groups over others. Conscription lets you raise a part of your civilian workforce as soldiers in times of war, and Internal Security governs how the Home Affairs anti-insurgent Institution works.

The Power Structure Laws of a typical European nation after having made a few strides towards liberalization. The numbers in green refers to the number of alternative Laws currently available to be enacted. This indicator is used throughout the UI to reveal how many options a sub-menu has without having to open it.
dd7_1.png

Economy
This set of Laws define where your treasury’s money comes from and how it can be spent. Your Economic System is crucial - this governs whether your country operates on principles of Mercantilism, Isolationism, or Free Trade, among others. Income Tax determines which Pops should be taxed and what range of tax burden is appropriate. No Income Tax at all is of course an option, and legislation to such effect will make some Pops both rich and happy! Poll Taxation, or levying a fixed tax per head, is another option primarily used in less industrialized societies. (There are other avenues of taxation as well, but these are the ones driven by legislation.) Finally, you can choose what form the Institutions of Colonization, Policing, Education System, and Health System will take in your country. For example, you can keep government spending under control by instituting Charity Hospitals, which have limited effect and boost the power of the clergy, or you could pass a Public Health Insurance Law which is costlier but can have a greater impact on the health of the masses.

Payroll Taxes require reasonable lower-class wages and a centralized population to pay off, but if so can form the economic basis for a budding welfare system as seen here. A tax system based on Levying might be more lucrative in countries with huge Peasant populations.
dd7_2.png

Human Rights
Enshrining the rights of the individual was a hallmark of the era. These Laws define how your Pops are treated and what manner of control you can enforce over their lives. Free Speech determines the degree of control you can enforce over your Interest Groups but restrictive rights throttle the spread of innovation. The Labor Rights Laws include outlawing serfdom, but extends all the way to establishing a Workplace Safety Institution to reduce the number of people literally crushed in the jaws of industry. Children’s Rights and the Rights of Women have a number of effects such as shifting the Workforce/Dependent demographics, affecting Dependent income, and extending the franchise. Welfare ensures the poor and disabled in your society are taken care of. Migration Laws can be used to influence Pop migration. Slavery Laws determine the legal status of owning people in your country. More details on that subject in a future dev diary.

Not a lot of concessions have been made here, but at least children may congregate freely after the factory whistle signals the end of their grueling workday.
dd7_3.png

Laws are almost always completely independent from one another. You can create a Constitutional Monarchy with hereditary succession but Universal Suffrage, or an Autocratic Presidential Republic with a strongman leader at the top of the food chain. You can have a Secret Police and still permit fully Protected Speech.

Our aim is to set all countries up with the best fitting Laws compared to what they actually had in 1836. This will vary wildly between countries, and will greatly influence what sorts of conditions and strategies are available to you at the start of the game. For example, the USA starts with Total Separation of Church and State, ensuring no Pops suffer legal discrimination on account of their religion, while Sardinia-Piedmont doesn’t take kindly to non-Catholic Pops. This will affect Pops who live in the country currently, but will also limit which Pops might migrate there - few Pops would make it their preference to move to a country where they’re mistreated by law.

As a result of these starting Laws Sardinia-Piedmont might have to look towards colonization or conquest if they start to run out of their native workforce, while North America is likely to get regular migration waves to help expand the frontier. By connecting these effects to starting Laws, many historically appropriate and recognizable aspects and behaviors of Victorian-era nations - such as their attractiveness to immigrants - are connected to a tangible property (e.g. poor or oppressed Pops emigrating to the USA both because of its demand for workforce and also its liberal Laws) rather than being arbitrarily encoded into the very fabric of the nation itself, the approach previous Victoria games took to encourage history in the a familiar direction.

However, these starting Laws are far from set in stone! You might want to reform your Laws to better suit the direction your society is going - for example, you might want to transition your Bureaucracy from a system of Appointees to Elected Bureaucrats in order to more effectively provide services from Government Institutions to all your incorporated territories (or maybe just because you want to disempower the otherwise powerful Intelligentsia.) Or your country’s Agrarian economy has plateaued on account of increased reliance on imports of manufactured goods, and you want to change course to the exciting opportunities provided by a Free Trade policy.

A common effect of Laws is to modify some parameter about your country, like give you more Authority or reduce certain Pops’ Mortality. But Laws can also permit or disallow the use of certain actions, such as Public Schools which permit the Compulsory Primary School Law; permit the Decree to Promote Social Mobility in a certain state; and even alter the effects of other parts of your society, like boost the efficacy of your Education System Institution. Without some degree of separation between Church and State, this form of secular school system is not possible.
dd7_4.png

Another reason to change Laws is because your people demand it. As we touched on in the previous dev diary, Interest Groups have Ideologies that lead them to favor some Laws over others - for example, the Industrialists have the Individualist Ideology that cause them to favor privately operated Education and Healthcare systems over publicly funded ones, to ensure best access is given to those of merit and morals (or in other words, Wealth). Reforming your current Laws to work more in accordance with your powerful Interest Groups’ Ideologies is a quick way to win their Approval, permitting you more leeway to go against their wishes in the future or as a quick pick-me-up in case their Standard of Living has recently taken a hit.

The inverse is also true. Introduce a bill to abolish the Monarchy in Great Britain and see how the Landed Gentry feel about that.

Even Trade Unionists have a hard time saying no to zero income taxes, but even that won’t make up for restricting the vote!
dd7_6.png

Enacting a Law is far from an instantaneous, one-click affair. First off, any reform must be supported by at least one Interest Group in your government who can champion the change. Once the reform has begun it can be a smooth process that’s over in a matter of months, or it can take years of gruelling debate in parliament or horsetrading between Interest Groups in order to pass. The amount of time it takes depends both on your government’s Legitimacy in the eyes of the people, and also on the Clout of the Interest Groups in your government that supports and opposes the new Law relative to the one it’s replacing. While broader coalitions of Interest Groups in government give you more options of Laws to enact, it also complicates getting them passed.

Changing your laws isn’t an entirely straightforward process in Victoria 3! In this case it’s just a matter of time before the Law is enacted, but if dissenting Interest Groups had also been part of this government there would be plenty of room for Debate and Stalling tactics that could cause this reform to take more effort than it’s worth.
dd7_5.png

Let me close out here by tying all this back to the Pops. As we have touched on in past dev diaries, Pops have a Profession, collect an income, and consume goods depending on the economic preconditions you have created in your country. These material concerns in combination with a few others, such as Literacy, determine which Interest Groups they support. Other aspects, such as your country’s Laws, influence how much Political Strength the Pops provide to those Interest Groups. The Interest Groups have an Approval score and favor certain Laws over others. As a result, different groups of Pops approve more or less of the society you have built depending on their economic well-being, and their demands for change is more or less intimidating depending on how many and strong they are. You may choose to placate an angry group, or further benefit an already content group for extra benefits. But in doing so, some other group will become displeased. Have you built your society resilient enough to navigate these ebbs and flows? And most importantly, which of the many, many routes will you take to move forward?

That is all for me this week! In this dev diary I mentioned Institutions a number of times, and next Thursday I will be back with more details on this powerful society-shaping tool. Until then!
 
  • 267Like
  • 186Love
  • 16
  • 8
  • 6
Reactions:

Tulwath

First Lieutenant
88 Badges
Jun 3, 2003
242
85
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Magicka
Is racism/segregation modelled by a law or something else? For example American Jim Crow. Do discriminatory laws target specific groups (e.g. in America prejudice towards black and Chinese people) or all non-accepted minorities?
There seems to be cultural exclusion for citizenship but we still don't know about ethnic discrimination. I hope it is in there. Can you really create a 19th century simulator without representing different levels of discrimination?
 
  • 9Like
Reactions:

Vernichtere

Lt. General
57 Badges
Mar 26, 2010
1.615
4.199
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Majesty 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris
There seems to be cultural exclusion for citizenship but we still don't know about ethnic discrimination. I hope it is in there. Can you really create a 19th century simulator without representing different levels of discrimination?
You will have that. The Pops have three traits: religion, heritage, and language. Accordingly, emigrants from England are less discriminated against than other Europeans and even less than black people. For example, a black pop might have the description: African heritage and English language. He's way down, though. But a pop with an African heritage and a French language is located further down.
 
  • 11Like
Reactions:

Lithaeus

Private
21 Badges
Nov 8, 2018
11
76
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
There were major differences between different faiths (Chrisitan, Muslim, Eastern etc.) and their ways of dealing with the government and how a "State Religion" would operate under them. It would be unfortunate if the European schism between religion and secularity was just cut and paste all over the globe.

Will different religions have different effects if they are in a nation in which they are a state religion, with ripple effects on other laws. For example, if the Ottoman Empire has Sunni Islam (and please don't include the different schools of thought like Hanafi and Hanbali as they were not that relevant) as a state religion, and Russia has Roman Orthodoxy as their state religion, will there be a difference in effects on their institutions/laws?
 
  • 20Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Somberg

General
62 Badges
Mar 26, 2011
1.756
1.273
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities in Motion
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Since the process of enacting laws has been drawn out, do you know beforehand roughly how long it would take to get it passed? Other than knowing how much support or opposition there is for it does the game also tell you an estimated date for when it should be fully enacted and in force? Want to know if it's just a guessing game for the player or if we have a more precise idea of how long the process might take.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Andrzej2

Colonel
47 Badges
Jul 2, 2010
876
2.585
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Majesty 2
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Rome Gold
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
So there is no senate in Vic 3? No separate suffrage laws for upper and lower house? I can't have senate with appointed nobility and lower house elected?


If so then it's really disappointing. In Vic 2 while playing monarchy I often gave up and introduced universal suffrage in lower house while I still got appointed senate. Other options for senate were also fun like seats per state etc.
 
  • 11
  • 4Like
  • 2
Reactions:

BrytonJSwan

hatched from an egg from the bottom of the sea
57 Badges
Apr 2, 2015
432
2.724
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
This looks amazing! This is a massive step up from Victoria 2 imo. Great stuff!

So then are "governance principals" essentially this game's version of government types from Vicky 2? Like is that where things like "Proletariat Dictatorship" and whatnot will eventually show up? Or maybe I'm not looking at this the right way, I'm not sure.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

blobmaneatsme

Corporal
22 Badges
May 21, 2020
34
252
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Magicka
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II
dd7_5.png

can we get a better quality version of this image it looks like someone downloaded a thumbnail

Since the process of enacting laws has been drawn out, do you know beforehand roughly how long it would take to get it passed? Other than knowing how much support or opposition there is for it does the game also tell you an estimated date for when it should be fully enacted and in force? Want to know if it's just a guessing game for the player or if we have a more precise idea of how long the process might take.
the image above when zoomed in shows an estimated end date under the icon on the left
 
  • 6
  • 4Like
  • 3
Reactions:

Muhu

Corporal
11 Badges
Feb 20, 2012
38
329
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Magicka
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
It sounds like every law change will have to be initiated by the player. Wouldn't this lead to bizarre situations like being able to play the whole game with the liberals in the government without passing a single liberal law?
 

unmerged(760025)

Captain
38 Badges
Jun 25, 2013
424
2.232
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pride of Nations
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
The inverse is also true. Introduce a bill to abolish the Monarchy in Great Britain and see how the Landed Gentry feel about that.

Wait... So that means that it will be possible the end the british monarchy without purposely letting a rebellious movement taking over ?
If I managed to marginalized the interest groups that are staunch supporters of the royal family and empowers groups either indifferent toward the monarchy or that opposed it, I could theoretically then pass a law to transition from a monarchy to, for example, a republic ?
 
  • 3Like
  • 2Love
Reactions:

BrotherJonathan

Petty King of Washington
49 Badges
Jun 15, 2015
949
2.054
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Knights of Honor
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
This is a MAJOR improvement over the system in the first two games. Especially liking that Accepted Culture is now controlled by a law, rather than by the ruling political party.
Also, will there be prohibition/anti-alcohol laws in the game, to represent the influence of temperance movements during this period? They could have the effects of slightly boosting worker producticity and pleasing religious interest groups at the cost of increasing crime and POP militancy, as well as the more obvious effect of the more extreme versions shutting down all industries producing alcohol.
 
  • 10Like
  • 1
Reactions:

wilcoxchar

Field Marshal
98 Badges
Nov 15, 2004
5.104
17.578
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
Love how laws have been expanded. The adaptation of siege mechanics to passing legislation is beautiful.
 
  • 6Haha
  • 5Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Mikeboy

Lt. General
83 Badges
Aug 27, 2010
1.485
46
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • March of the Eagles
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
Would be good to see something on federal v. unitary states.
 
  • 13Like
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:

Somberg

General
62 Badges
Mar 26, 2011
1.756
1.273
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities in Motion
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
This looks amazing! This is a massive step up from Victoria 2 imo. Great stuff!

So then are "governance principals" essentially this game's version of government types from Vicky 2? Like is that where things like "Proletariat Dictatorship" and whatnot will eventually show up? Or maybe I'm not looking at this the right way, I'm not sure.
I think government types are likely to end up being a label based on some combination of Governing Principles and Distribution of Power laws. So an Absolute Monarchy would be Monarchy + Autocracy for example.
 
  • 10Like
Reactions:

Baneslave

Field Marshal
121 Badges
Apr 9, 2004
6.941
2.252
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
So there is no senate in Vic 3? No separate suffrage laws for upper and lower house? I can't have senate with appointed nobility and lower house elected?


If so then it's really disappointing. In Vic 2 while playing monarchy I often gave up and introduced universal suffrage in lower house while I still got appointed senate. Other options for senate were also fun like seats per state etc.
Victoria 2's upper and lower house split always felt really gamey to me. The split between Upper and Lower house responsibilities (as Victoria 2 depicts it) doesn't make much sense in most political systems.
 
  • 9
  • 6Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Cpt.Cross

Colonel
53 Badges
Oct 19, 2019
923
3.174
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Empire of Sin
  • Empire of Sin - Premium Edition
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
When disguntled POPs migrate will they aim for the best country for them or the closest "acceptable" nation? Will POP's class affect the distance they can move?
 
  • 5Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Griffin01

Corporal
75 Badges
Apr 5, 2015
48
194
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
I presume that the Monarchy vs Republic choice lies in principles of governance, and that power distribution covers the amount of say the head of state and the people have in the government. Though taking "a few" strides towards liberalization isn't what I'd call abolishing monarchy in Europe.

Is it possible to have a system where both the head of state and the parliament have some say when it comes to policy? Without one eclipsing the other.
Somewhat connected to the former question, is "middle ground" actually an option this time, or is it going to be like Vicky 2, where "middle" options were only stepping stones from one side to the other? I think it would be a great disservice to the political system if "moderate" options aren't viable at all.
 
  • 1
Reactions: