• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #6 - Interest Groups

DD6 Thumb.png


Hello once again and welcome back to yet another Victoria 3 dev diary. Where previous dev diaries have been focusing on the economy, we’re now going to switch gears to another core pillar of the Victoria series - internal politics! More specifically, we’re going to be talking about Interest Groups, which form the nucleus of Victoria 3’s political gameplay.

What then, are Interest Groups? Fundamentally, an Interest Group is a collection of pops that espouse certain political views and want to change the country to be more in line with those views. Interest Groups are drawn from a number of different templates, but will vary in their exact views from country to country, based on factors such as the local religion, which social movements have appeared in the country or the personal views of their leader.

The Landowners is an Interest Group dominated by the Aristocracy and tends to be firmly in the conservative side of politics
dd6_1.png


As mentioned, Interest Groups are fundamentally made up of Pops - all individuals in all Pops are either members of an Interest Group or Politically Inactive, with the ratio in each based on factors such as Profession, Wealth, Literacy etc. Individuals inside Pops contribute Political Strength to their Interest Group of choice, with the amount they contribute again dependent on multiple factors, the main ones being their material Wealth and the status (and/or votes!) they are offered under the nation’s power structure.

For example, a single wealthy Aristocrat in an Oligarchy will provide hundreds or even thousands times the political strength of a poor laborer. The total Political Strength of all Pops in an Interest Group is what gives it its level of Clout - the amount of political weight it can assert on the country and the government. It’s important to note though that Pops are not unified in which Interest Groups they support - individuals within Pops are the ones who decide their Interest Group, and a single Pop can potentially have individuals supporting every Interest Group in the game (in different numbers).

Some Pops have no political strength at all, usually due to being disenfranchised under the nation’s laws (such as people of a religion or culture that is discriminated against, or women in countries that haven’t instituted women’s suffrage). These Pops are ‘outside the system’ so to speak, unable to demand reform through the regular political system of Interest Groups, and instead having to rely on other methods to put pressure on the government, but we won’t focus on those today.

Individual members of a Pop can support different Interest Groups - or stay out of politics altogether!
dd6_2.png

As mentioned above, Interest Groups have a number of ideologies which determine their views on which laws the country should or should not enact. Different Interest Groups will have different ideologies (the Landowners are significantly more conservative than the Trade Unions, for example - shocking, I know!) but these are not entirely set in stone - they can change over the course of the game and will also vary based on the current leader of the Interest Group, who comes with his or her own personal ideology and view of the world. Additionally, some Interest Groups in certain countries have unique ideologies colored by their religion and culture, such as the Confucian Scholars Interest Group in Qing China who (unsurprisingly) espouse a Confucian ideology.

Interest Groups will generally favor laws that benefit them in some way
dd6_3.png

I mentioned previously that Interest Groups have a level of Clout based on the total Political Strength of their constituent Pops. Clout is calculated by comparing their Political Strength to that of the other Interest Groups in the country - if all the Interest Groups in Belgium put together have 100k Political Strength and the Landowners have 30k, they correspondingly get 30% of the Clout in Belgium. The Interest Group’s Clout will determine their classification - Powerful, Influential or Marginalized.

Interest Groups also have a level of Approval, which is based on factors such as how much they approve of the country’s laws, whether they are in government or in opposition, and how many of their individual members are Loyalists or Radicals (more on those in a later dev diary). There are numerous other factors that can affect Approval as well, such as how you react to certain events or decisions that you take.

Together, the classification and Approval of an Interest Group determines which Traits are active for an Interest Group at any given time, and how impactful they are. There are different traits, positive and negative, with positive traits being activated when an Interest Group is happy and negative ones when they are… not so happy. If an Interest Group is Powerful, the effects of any traits they have active (good or bad) are stronger, while an Interest Group that is Marginalized cannot activate traits at all, as they are too weak to exert an effect on the whole country.

Traits are, of course, not the only way that Interest Groups can affect a country, and it’s even possible for one (or several!) angry Interest Groups to start a civil war, potentially bringing in foreign countries to support them.

Keep the aristocracy happy, and they’ll be more willing to reinvest their ‘hard-earned’ money into the country
dd6_4.png

Now, something that’s been a hotly debated topic in the community in regards to Interest Groups is Political Parties and whether they will be a part of Victoria 3 so I want to briefly touch on this. What I can tell you for now is that we are currently looking into a solution where parties can form in certain countries as constellations of Interest Groups holding a shared political platform. This is something that’s by no means fully nailed down at this point though, so don’t take this as a 100% firm commitment to how they would function. What I can tell you for sure is that we will come back to this particular topic later!

That’s all for today, though we’ll certainly be coming back to the subject of Interest Groups and looking at the different types you will encounter in later dev diaries. With July and summer vacations coming up, we’re going to take a short break from Development Diaries, but we’ll be back on July 22nd as Mikael returns to continue talking about politics in Victoria 3, on the subject of Laws.
 
  • 341Like
  • 122Love
  • 21
  • 8
  • 6
Reactions:
Can different interest groups potentially overlap on certain ideologies?
Definitely, there are many cases where Interest Groups both share ideologies (the Armed Forces and Petit-Bourgeoisie are both Patriotic, for example) and where the Interest Groups' ideologies make them ideological allies for the purpose of changing a certain Law but not another. For example, the Intelligentsia would rather have Religious Schools than No Schools, and so would the Devout - but once enacted, the Intelligentsia would usually prefer a more secular school system while the Devout would loathe dismantling Religious Schools in favor of some other flavor, and would rather get rid of organized education altogether.
 
Last edited:
  • 48Like
  • 17Love
  • 10
  • 1
Reactions:
Outside of major events, yes. Leaders are randomly generated but this is strongly influenced by the Interest Group in question and the state of your country. You might end up with an Abolitionist as the country's religious leader, and this might be much more likely depending on what your state religion is, while you're not going to get an Anarchist Leader of the Armed Forces.

No reforming into the Black Army? Dang, curse realism. :(

Actually, would there be an "Armed Forces" interest group for anarchists, though? Would *that* armed forces leader be likely to be anarchist?
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Now, something that’s been a hotly debated topic in the community in regards to Interest Groups is Political Parties and whether they will be a part of Victoria 3 so I want to briefly touch on this. What I can tell you for now is that we are currently looking into a solution where parties can form in certain countries as constellations of Interest Groups holding a shared political platform. This is something that’s by no means fully nailed down at this point though, so don’t take this as a 100% firm commitment to how they would function. What I can tell you for sure is that we will come back to this particular topic later!

I am pleased to see this actually being addressed and look forward towards seeing what will eventually be presented in a functional form for the game.
 
Instead of hard caps that have a big impact like at least +10 loyalty it would seem much better if for example anything between -5 to +5 has no effect and values above slowly give a scaling effect so +5.1 gives 0.1*base effect, until a cap is reached, unless that would be a performance issue of course.
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Can there be more than one Interest Group of the same "template"? I imagine this would be important for countries with more than one influential religion, for instance. One example that comes to mind is Japan, who had both Shinto Shrines and influential Buddhist Temples coexisting in power until the Shinto was elevated and the Buddhists were marginalized during the Meiji Revolution.

(well, the situation was a bit more complex, with both religions often being synchronized and the Meiji government more or less creating a new religion on top of the old Shinto, but the point is that there were two religions with political power in the country)
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Definitely, there are many cases where Interest Groups both share ideologies (the Armed Forces and Petit-Bourgeoisie are both Patriotic, for example) and where the Interest Groups' ideologies make them ideological allies for the purpose of changing a certain Law but not another. For example, the Intelligentsia would rather have Religious Schools than No Schools, and so would the Devout - but once enacted, the Intelligentsia would usually prefer a more secular school system while the Devout would loathe dismantling Religious Schools in favor of some other flavor, and would rather get rid of schools altogether.
I sense what could be the basis for political parties, no? Interest Groups having shared ideologies is exactly the sort of thing that would lead them to band together and push for a common political platform under the banner of a party in a democracy.
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:
Can player interact with IG leaders directly (in foreign countries too!) and influence who will be new ones? Like using intrigues to put more loyal trade unions leader or bar undesirable aristocrat?
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:
Can we please not have political parties.
Agreed. As long as the clout of the different interest groups accounts for electoral franchises and what not (which they will going by this DD), then IGs represent a good standalone abstractization of politics from a structuralist perspective. Adding parties on top of it might just lead to poor synchronicity between the two mechanics.

At the very least, if Paradox remains intent on adding parties, they should postpone this for a future DLC or significant free update post-release rather than weakening the mechanical foundations of the base game.
 
  • 15
  • 8Like
Reactions:
Can we please not have political parties.
I'm afraid your opinion is likely a minority one on this matter. They are too important to the time period to be excluded from those countries where it would make sense for them to exist.
 
  • 14
  • 8Like
  • 7
Reactions:
I would like to ask whether elections will be in the game and if so, how will they be implemented?
Elections will be in the game for sure! We will cover the mechanics of those in a separate dev diary, but for now I can say that while non-democratic systems tend to experience political shifts gradually as Pops change and update their preferences in response to (mostly) economic forces, elections will have the possibility to be major turning points for a country as mass political strength is redistributed all at once. They also tend to (but don't have to) grant relatively more political strength to the lower classes, which shifts the political balance of power.
 
  • 49Like
  • 14
  • 6Love
Reactions:

If 2 or more interest groups share an affinity for military spending or free trade, they might band together to form a party so they can pool their resources and push together on interests that matter to them.
 
  • 2Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
Elections will be in the game for sure! We will cover the mechanics of those in a separate dev diary, but for now I can say that while non-democratic systems tend to experience political shifts gradually as Pops change and update their preferences in response to (mostly) economic forces, elections will have the possibility to be major turning points for a country as mass political strength is redistributed all at once. They also tend to (but don't have to) grant relatively more political strength to the lower classes, which shifts the political balance of power.
Are you able to confirm whether you are able to remain as conservative/religious country throughout the game? Or is it inevitable that you shift away from Piety and Conservatism towards liberalism.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
So what happens when women's suffrage occurs? Is it simply a Dependence decrease, and an increase in that affected Pops social consciousness?
More Dependents get to cast a vote, which makes the piece of the Political Strength pie made up of Votes even larger. This in turn tends to grant more political strength to the common folk.
 
  • 29Like
  • 20
  • 2Love
Reactions:
Agreed. As long as the clout of the different interest groups accounts for electoral franchises and what not (which they will going by this DD), then IGs represent a good standalone abstractization of politics from a structuralist perspective. Adding parties on top of it might just lead to poor synchronicity between the two mechanics.

At the very least, if Paradox remains intent on adding parties, they should postpone this for a future DLC or significant free update post-release rather than weakening the mechanical foundations of the base game.
Let's put it this way. Each pop has a certain affinity for each interest group, just like in real life. The ideology which satisfies those affinities the best (given that there's no apathy) gets the vote.
 
Agreed. As long as the clout of the different interest groups accounts for electoral franchises and what not (which they will going by this DD), then IGs represent a good standalone abstractization of politics from a structuralist perspective. Adding parties on top of it might just lead to poor synchronicity between the two mechanics.

At the very least, if Paradox remains intent on adding parties, they should postpone this for a future DLC or significant free update post-release rather than weakening the mechanical foundations of the base game.
I just don't want to be 'forced' to engage with political parties. I can't stand political parties.
 
  • 19
  • 5Haha
  • 1
Reactions: