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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #58 - Interest Revisions

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Hello and welcome to yet another Victoria 3 development diary. Today is going to be a fairly brief dev diary discussing some design changes in diplomacy that happened as a result of internal playtesting and feedback, specifically to the mechanics of Interests and their significance in the game.

Interests, as you may recall from Dev Diary #19, are essentially a country having a diplomatic presence in a particular Strategic Region, either as a result of owning territory there, having a subject that owns territory there, or through a Declared Interest. Back then, Interests merely limited where you start Diplomatic Plays and Establish Colonies, and acted as a guide for the AI in terms of which countries it needed to care about

With so many Great Powers maintaining Interests there, Europe is a perilous place to start a Diplomatic Play in
DD58_1.jpg

So, what has changed between then and now? Well, basically, playtesting revealed two principal issues with Interests in the game. The first was that they simply didn’t feel significant enough, because they only tied directly into colonization and diplomatic plays. The second was that the number of declared Interests a country had available to them was based solely on rank, which meant that Austria with its miniscule navy was able to maintain almost as global a presence as the British with their, well, definitely not so miniscule navy.

To solve the first problem, we decided to do a little experiment - what if instead of just limiting colonization and diplomatic plays, Interests were required for all forms of diplomacy, up to and including trade? This was an idea we’d kicked around previously, but the concern was that it’d simply be too limiting, particularly where trade was concerned, because as mentioned, the only way to get more Interests was to increase your country rank, and once you were a Great Power, well that was it. No more trade partners, at least not of your own choosing.

The solution to the second problem, then, turned out to also be the key to the first one: tying the navy directly into declared Interests. The number of declared Interests from rank were reduced, and instead, Naval Bases now produce declared Interests, with one declared Interest provided per 10 flotillas that a country has. In other words, while Austria can now maintain a handful of declared Interests around Europe to look out for its national interests (pun intended), the size of Britain’s fleet allows it to poke its nose into the business of just about any corner of the world that it wants to.

Spain’s navy may not be what it once was, but it’s still large enough to allow the Spanish a greater diplomatic reach than their Major Power rank would otherwise allow
DD58_2.jpg

With this change made, our experiment truly came together, and allowed us to greatly expand the scope of the Interest mechanic. Instead of just being a requirement for taking over land, Interests now signify a formal diplomatic presence in a region without which you simply do not have the ability to interact with that region at all - no French diplomats in Southeast Asia means no French diplomacy in Southeast Asia.

In no particular order, here are all the mechanics that now tie into Interests:
  • Diplomatic Plays & Colonization: As before, a country must have an Interest in a region to start a Diplomatic Play or begin colonizing there.
  • Diplomatic Actions: To conduct diplomacy with a country, you must now have at least one overlapping Interest - meaning they must have an Interest in any strategic region where you also have an Interest. For example, Texas can conduct diplomacy with Britain if Britain maintains an Interest in the Dixie Region, even if Texas has no Interests outside the Dixie region.
  • Trade: To establish a trade route between two markets, one of the two market owners has to have an Interest in any region where the other market is present. For example, if the USA maintains an Interest in La Plata where the Argentine market is present, then Argentina and the USA can trade with each other, even if Argentina doesn’t have an Interest anywhere in North America.
  • Notifications: You will only be informed about diplomatic going-ons between countries with which you have an overlapping Interest, and in states where you have an Interest in the region.

As much as the Sikh Empire might desire European allies against Britain, their landlocked position limits their options - without a coast they will have to wait for one of those powers to take an interest in North India
DD58_3.jpg

Ultimately, the result of these changes were threefold: It made Interests a far more central mechanic to the game, it increased the need for maintaining a large fleet-in-being for empires with global ambitions, and it increased immersion by having who you could and could not deal with simply make more sense. An isolated Bhutan in the Himalayas now truly feels isolated, rather than inexplicably being able to send embassies to Paraguay at a whim.

That’s it for today! I’ll be back next week with another Dev Diary on a hotly anticipated topic: The AI of Victoria 3.
 
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Very good change! But maybe even more : Every county should have 1-3 Interest for neigbour regions and you need for "far away interest" a Navy. For examble Without navy Brasil should not make a interest in south china but in Caribben.
 
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I think tying interests to naval power is very elegant, simple and clever, but I also think you need to expand on this and consider more than naval power. For countries that have no land route between each other, naval power is a great way to represent power projection and potential interest. Perhaps the interest system should consider land military power along with naval power, weighted by land routes.

For example, Prussia should have great influence inside Europe because of their military and location, but they should also get at least minor potential interest in neighboring regions, like north Africa or the middle East. Like some kind of power-proximity-probability calculation, i.e. it could look at military power, how close are the regions in question, and how difficult would it be to for the declaring interest to move their military to the declared interest, then the total possibility to have interest or influence in a region can be determined.

So instead of just looking at ranking and navy, it looks at military power in total AND the ability to move it around. This would also prevent cheese strategies where a country could spam cheap naval units but have minimal actual military power and still have huge influence and power projection.
 
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Ferrous Will

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@Wizzington Does having a nation in your Custom's Union give you an interest where the junior participant has presence?
 
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Tvarog

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They're not hiding any information from what I can tell. It's just notifications, and judging from earlier builds, limiting the amount of notifications to just the areas you're interested in is definitely preferable to ignoring the notifications because most of the time it's not relevant to you.
Yeah, but why completely different gameplay decisions are choosing what information is relevant to me?
 
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Tamwin5

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Is it just me, or are these two bullet points essentially saying the same thing? Is there something granular that I'm missing that makes them worth separate bullet points?

For diplomacy, you need to both share an interest in atleast one region.
For trade, one nation's interest has to share the presence of another's market

This means the criteria for trade is stricter.

Russia and Japan can both do diplomacy with each other if they bump into each other in China, but unless one of them has an interest in a region where the other's market exists neither can trade with the other

Trade isn't strictly stricter. Specifically for the case of customs unions. If I'm America, and I bring Mexico into my market, then I could trade with anyone who had an interest in Central America, even if I didn't have an interest there. Of course, you need to have overlapping interests to even form the customs union in the first place, but that could happen in an entirely separate strategic region. Most of the time though I imagine you'll already have interests in regions with your market, either because they are from colonies/vassals (who give interests directly) or because you declared an interest to diplomacy there in the first place.
 

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Trade isn't strictly stricter. Specifically for the case of customs unions. If I'm America, and I bring Mexico into my market, then I could trade with anyone who had an interest in Central America, even if I didn't have an interest there. Of course, you need to have overlapping interests to even form the customs union in the first place, but that could happen in an entirely separate strategic region. Most of the time though I imagine you'll already have interests in regions with your market, either because they are from colonies/vassals (who give interests directly) or because you declared an interest to diplomacy there in the first place.
Im operating under the assumption that, if someone is under your CU, they kinda function as a psuedo-subject, and therefore you project interest from them.

I donno it just kinda makes sense that way.
 
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Seems like a good change. I hope a few other systems will get a similar fleshing out before launch.
 

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I don't like this. One of the things I enjoy about Paradox games is watching the world develop beyond my immediate influence, and receiving notifications about things that I'm not involved in makes it much easier to do that.

In other words, message settings are an important part of grand strategy games, and getting rid of them was a mistake.
I agree, there should be some type of message setting (or a decision option at the start of the game) that does allow for all notifications to be given to the player if they wish it so.
 
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I don't like this. One of the things I enjoy about Paradox games is watching the world develop beyond my immediate influence, and receiving notifications about things that I'm not involved in makes it much easier to do that.

In other words, message settings are an important part of grand strategy games, and getting rid of them was a mistake.
I actually like this decision, at least as an option. I usually feel far too flooded with messages in games like Vicky 2 or EUIV to particularly care about any of them, or even read any of them. This will make it far more manageable, and is more self-selecting for what I care about. I do agree there should be an option for all-notifications though--there should always be options for things like this.
 
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Yeah, but why completely different gameplay decisions are choosing what information is relevant to me?
Because you are declaring a diplomatic interest in a region. Practically by definition that means the goings-on in the region are relevant to you.
 
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Huh, people really seem set on having their notifications enabled. I suppose as an option that couldn't do too much harm. I wouldn't want it by default though.

Are there any limits to declaring interests based on navy as well? Consider Belgium, for example. Maybe Belgium wants to tear the Netherlands down a bit and end the threat, so it declares Indonesia to be an interest, waits for literally any play, hops in against the Netherlands, and uses this isolated war as an excuse to strip the Dutch of their colonies. My issue with this is, Belgium can't even reach Indonesia really. It doesn't have that reach. That's just cheesing the mechanics because your rank gives you an interest that seems to have no limit in choice. How will that be stopped or limited?

A country can Declare an Interest in any region that is either adjacent to a region where they already have an Interest, or which they can reach through the support of their naval supply network (more on that later!).

So Belgium needs to be able to reach Indonesia 'through support of their naval supply network'.
 
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Because you are declaring a diplomatic interest in a region. Practically by definition that means the goings-on in the region are relevant to you.
But it's limited by completely different mechanic. In real state i have bureaucrats who will choose information for me that I want to know regardless if I have diplomatic corps in that region or not.
 
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dbruser

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Huh, people really seem set on having their notifications enabled. I suppose as an option that couldn't do too much harm. I wouldn't want it by default though.

Are there any limits to declaring interests based on navy as well? Consider Belgium, for example. Maybe Belgium wants to tear the Netherlands down a bit and end the threat, so it declares Indonesia to be an interest, waits for literally any play, hops in against the Netherlands, and uses this isolated war as an excuse to strip the Dutch of their colonies. My issue with this is, Belgium can't even reach Indonesia really. It doesn't have that reach. That's just cheesing the mechanics because your rank gives you an interest that seems to have no limit in choice. How will that be stopped or limited?
I'm pretty sure that there would be some limitations to what you could demand as a secondary combatant jumping in on a diplomatic play. Not to mention if you are jumping into something the Dutch started, I believe they can back down/cancel their diplomatic play. (not like any indonesian power is going to be starting a diplo play on the Dutch unless something catastrophic happens or they spawn a rebellion).
 

Zeruko Argia

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Goodnight, I liked the new interests but found that trade is too restrictive, I think that the countries should trade freely using ports or at least have a minimum trade node capacity: 3 trade nodes far from home, for example. My concerns explained with an example: As a South American nation could I trade with Europe easily or it will be very difficult/expensive?
 
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wilcoxchar

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I liked the new interests but still found that trade is too restrictive, I think that the countries should trade freely using ports or at least have a minimum trade node capacity: 3 trade nodes far from home, for example.
You still need to have diplomatic staff in the region you're trading with to deal with local officials, arrange dock and warehouse usage, handle tax stuff, and the like. And that diplomatic staff is part of what declared interests represent.
 
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dbruser

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I liked the new interests but still found that trade is too restrictive, I think that the countries should trade freely using ports or at least have a minimum trade node capacity: 3 trade nodes far from home, for example.
Anyone with a decent enough navy is able to trade with a large number of countries. Plus, you can also enforce getting treaty ports to force favorable trading with a country. Alternatively, you can join another market or get people to join your market.
 
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Bearjuden

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So Belgium needs to be able to reach Indonesia 'through support of their naval supply network'.
I don't know how you remembered that tidbit from forty DD ago, but thanks!. That's pretty much exactly what I was looking for.
 
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Tvarog

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Would we be able to see in "make new trade route panel" potential trade routes to countries that we can't import from/export to or there will be shown only trade routes with countries we can interact with?
Just to know that we can spend that last interest point if we badly need a lot of cheep steal just to get it.