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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #58 - Interest Revisions

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Hello and welcome to yet another Victoria 3 development diary. Today is going to be a fairly brief dev diary discussing some design changes in diplomacy that happened as a result of internal playtesting and feedback, specifically to the mechanics of Interests and their significance in the game.

Interests, as you may recall from Dev Diary #19, are essentially a country having a diplomatic presence in a particular Strategic Region, either as a result of owning territory there, having a subject that owns territory there, or through a Declared Interest. Back then, Interests merely limited where you start Diplomatic Plays and Establish Colonies, and acted as a guide for the AI in terms of which countries it needed to care about

With so many Great Powers maintaining Interests there, Europe is a perilous place to start a Diplomatic Play in
DD58_1.jpg

So, what has changed between then and now? Well, basically, playtesting revealed two principal issues with Interests in the game. The first was that they simply didn’t feel significant enough, because they only tied directly into colonization and diplomatic plays. The second was that the number of declared Interests a country had available to them was based solely on rank, which meant that Austria with its miniscule navy was able to maintain almost as global a presence as the British with their, well, definitely not so miniscule navy.

To solve the first problem, we decided to do a little experiment - what if instead of just limiting colonization and diplomatic plays, Interests were required for all forms of diplomacy, up to and including trade? This was an idea we’d kicked around previously, but the concern was that it’d simply be too limiting, particularly where trade was concerned, because as mentioned, the only way to get more Interests was to increase your country rank, and once you were a Great Power, well that was it. No more trade partners, at least not of your own choosing.

The solution to the second problem, then, turned out to also be the key to the first one: tying the navy directly into declared Interests. The number of declared Interests from rank were reduced, and instead, Naval Bases now produce declared Interests, with one declared Interest provided per 10 flotillas that a country has. In other words, while Austria can now maintain a handful of declared Interests around Europe to look out for its national interests (pun intended), the size of Britain’s fleet allows it to poke its nose into the business of just about any corner of the world that it wants to.

Spain’s navy may not be what it once was, but it’s still large enough to allow the Spanish a greater diplomatic reach than their Major Power rank would otherwise allow
DD58_2.jpg

With this change made, our experiment truly came together, and allowed us to greatly expand the scope of the Interest mechanic. Instead of just being a requirement for taking over land, Interests now signify a formal diplomatic presence in a region without which you simply do not have the ability to interact with that region at all - no French diplomats in Southeast Asia means no French diplomacy in Southeast Asia.

In no particular order, here are all the mechanics that now tie into Interests:
  • Diplomatic Plays & Colonization: As before, a country must have an Interest in a region to start a Diplomatic Play or begin colonizing there.
  • Diplomatic Actions: To conduct diplomacy with a country, you must now have at least one overlapping Interest - meaning they must have an Interest in any strategic region where you also have an Interest. For example, Texas can conduct diplomacy with Britain if Britain maintains an Interest in the Dixie Region, even if Texas has no Interests outside the Dixie region.
  • Trade: To establish a trade route between two markets, one of the two market owners has to have an Interest in any region where the other market is present. For example, if the USA maintains an Interest in La Plata where the Argentine market is present, then Argentina and the USA can trade with each other, even if Argentina doesn’t have an Interest anywhere in North America.
  • Notifications: You will only be informed about diplomatic going-ons between countries with which you have an overlapping Interest, and in states where you have an Interest in the region.

As much as the Sikh Empire might desire European allies against Britain, their landlocked position limits their options - without a coast they will have to wait for one of those powers to take an interest in North India
DD58_3.jpg

Ultimately, the result of these changes were threefold: It made Interests a far more central mechanic to the game, it increased the need for maintaining a large fleet-in-being for empires with global ambitions, and it increased immersion by having who you could and could not deal with simply make more sense. An isolated Bhutan in the Himalayas now truly feels isolated, rather than inexplicably being able to send embassies to Paraguay at a whim.

That’s it for today! I’ll be back next week with another Dev Diary on a hotly anticipated topic: The AI of Victoria 3.
 
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anbory

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Borders can be used in lieu of interest, and I'm guessing border via subjects works too
I mean, you have your base point limit which, I guess, 3 for major powers (there is a screenshot somewhere in the beggining of the thread) and you can increase your cap with building proper navy. But this won't work for countries that mainly has interests on their continent and they need to build naval bases to increase their cap to declare interest in some areas for which they definitely don't need a navy. That's a bit weird.
 

Ferrous Will

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I mean, you have your base point limit which, I guess, 3 for major powers (there is a screenshot somewhere in the beggining of the thread) and you can increase your cap with building proper navy. But this won't work for countries that mainly has interests on their continent and they need to build naval bases to increase their cap to declare interest in some areas for which they definitely don't need a navy. That's a bit weird.
... what?
 
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Blxz

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Limiting notifications to areas with interests is a sacrifice of gameplay for the sake of 'realism'. Generally this is the opposite to what many games do where they make small sacrifices of realism to promote better gameplay. I hope the dev team doesn't buy into their own hype too much as this seems like a minor but objectively worse gameplay choice for the sake of scoring very small realism points.
 
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grommile

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But this won't work for countries that mainly has interests on their continent and they need to build naval bases to increase their cap to declare interest in some areas for which they definitely don't need a navy.
Give us a concrete example of a country this would apply to, rather than a vague abstract concern.
 
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Ferrous Will

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Give us a concrete example of a country this would apply to, rather than a vague abstract concern.
The most confusing part of this... is that post was a reply to me stating that you don't need an interest to interact with neighbors. Which solves at least part of his concerns... I mean that surely qualifies "definitely don't need a navy", so I have no idea why he replied the way that he did.

Did I just not convey that information in my post? help me out here @grommile I feel like i'm going insane.
 
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Voodoo Lilium

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So I assume that if you lose an interest that was allowing you to trade with someone, that trade route gets destroyed? What about treaties? If I have an alliance with someone, but then one of us loses or removes the interest that allowed us to have diplomatic access to each other, does that alliance disappear? What if that interest disappears mid play or war?

(Also, sorry if this has already been answered, I didn't see it in the post of dev responses and I don't have time to go through all the comments right this moment.)
 
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Axe99

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Cheers for the DD Wiz, and the extra info, and that approach to interests is a great step forward :) Naval power was by far the main avenue of power projection during the period, and nations without significant naval power were not able to have much influence away from their immediate area. That's much improved from Vickys previous, and I very much look forward to playing it :) (Not long to launch now - woo!)

Right now it's just 1 per 10 but that might change before release.

There may well be value in thinking about adjusting this for tech - the size of a ship of the line at the start of the game is about 3,000 tons, and the cost much less, than the 30,000+ tons battleships at the end of the game. If those 3,000 ton ships of the line are cheaper (and I'd hope they were), it could create an incentive for a nation to maintain a fleet of ships of the line just to have a cheap "interest farm", with their "service navy" using new tech.

I'm not opposed to the idea, though we won’t have time to do it for release at least. Possibly after!

More notifications, and more flexibility to the UX (no options = one-size-fits-all, which by definition is less acessible than a flexible solution) is always welcome :) It's still the case that for all it's clunkyness, Europa Universalis IV is the Paradox game with the UI that does the best job of telling players what's going on. Every other game since that has, to a greater or lesser degree, thrown some of the baby (in some cases, nearly all of it) out with the bathwater when it comes to playability for at least a portion of Paradox gamers (to the point that some, not me mind, have stopped playing Paradox games - in case it's unclear exactly how much of a barrier not being told what's happening in a GSG can be).

For a naval-themed pic, here's a (small and blurry, sorry) scale drawing of battleships through the period - note that difference in size between early-game and late-game vessels (and that's not taking into account the considerable increase in cost:ton due to greater complexity of equipment as well).


1663739209197.png
 
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