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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #56 - Cultures and Religions

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Hello there! My name is Alex and I’m part of the QA team working on Victoria 3! I’m a relatively recent addition to the team, having only joined around March this year. Despite that, it has already been an incredible ride to see the game progress since then! Enough of that though, because today the topic at hand is something you likely have heard a lot about in previous dev diaries but that still deserves its own introduction: Cultures and Religions.

As you probably already know from one of our very first dev diaries, pops have a series of aspects that define and group them. These include where the pops live, what profession they have and what building they work in. On top of that, pops are also defined by their cultural and religious background.

When hovering a culture you get all kinds of data you might find useful, like in this example of the Japanese Pop culture (not to be confused with Japanese pop culture which would much later take the world by storm) tooltip
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Cultures and religions in Victoria 3 are closely related and a central concept of what makes the game work. At their core, both of them work by having a set of traits that define how closely-related different cultures and religions are. These traits are what determine if a culture or religion will be accepted or discriminated against based on the different laws you might have in your country. As an example, both Catholicism and Protestantism have the Christian trait, meaning that they accept each other under the Freedom of Conscience law – which requires a shared trait between the religions - but not under the State Religion law – a law under which only pops of the state religion are accepted. The last alternative is of course the Total Separation law which accepts all religions no matter what traits they have..

The world has many cultures and traditions to get to know and learn more about.
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Cultures work slightly differently. For one, you have descriptive traits such as which language a culture generally speaks, i.e. lusophone or hispanophone. You also have a special kind of trait called heritage which generally describes very broadly where a certain culture originated from geographically. Some laws specifically require cultures to share a heritage with the primary cultures for them to be accepted, such as National Supremacy and Racial Segregation. There’s also Cultural Exclusion which requires at least a single trait to be shared for the culture to be accepted. Finally, Multiculturalism accepts all cultures regardless of traits.

Maybe your ideal run is to achieve prosperity as an independent Greenland where the Inuit culture gets to decide its own destiny.
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Closely tied to cultures and religions are the concepts of taboos and obsessions. Both of these affect, either negatively or positively, how much Pops are willing to pay for and consume certain goods. As such, both taboos and obsessions only apply to consumer goods as opposed to military or industrial goods (so no tank obsessions, sorry). Obsessions are tied to cultures, for instance the French culture being obsessed with wine or the Nepali with tea. As you might have guessed, taboos on the other hand are tied to religions. Importantly though, they still manifest themselves culturally. Every culture has a religion tied to it and “inherits” the taboos from that religion. This means that a catholic turkish pop will still have a taboo against wine and liquor for instance.

The Nepali know Tea is the superior hot drink and not that bitter bean juice people call coffee.
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Another difference between obsessions and taboos is that while taboos don’t change throughout the game, obsessions are more fleeting and can emerge organically or be removed in case something significant happens, like the Opium Crisis for instance. If a certain good is abundantly available in a market, the Pops in that market have a small chance of becoming obsessed with it.

A prominent leader of the Comanche, Puhihwitsikwasu, or Iron Jacket for the uncultured Europeans, gets some impressive culturally defined clothes and headdress.
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Cultures and religions touch on most of the game’s mechanics in one way or another as can be seen from previous dev diaries. From mechanics related to secessions, migrations and unifications all the way to discrimination, political strength and conversion/assimilation. Cultures are also tied to visual changes such as the appearance of characters. When playing Victoria 3, you will often be thinking about cultures in one way or another.

On top of all that, it might interest some of you that cultures and religions are very easily moddable to do what you want. Below you can find a quick Blorg culture mod I made with some details like localization files omitted. All in all a very simple process!

I’m fully expecting someone to make a “Blorg invasion from Outer Space” total conversion alt history mod now.
DD56_6.jpg

As you can see, the modding itself is very simple, even though I glossed over a few details like localization files and properly defining cultural traits as well as actually creating a Pop with the Blorg culture, but all of that is very straight forward.

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That’s all for me folks! Exciting times are ahead of us and I’m looking forward to having you all play the game when it’s finally time. Until then maybe I’ll see you at our first upcoming stream next week or maybe even at PDXCON? Either way, next time Mikael will tell you a bit more about The Journey so Far!
 
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jesus_christ123

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So what are those Traits? They seem a bit irregular (one is Yamato, other is Himalayan, we have seen couple of different others). Could you show more examples? I wonder if there are any cultural traits that would make for example Albanians tolerated in Ottoman Empire.
I think it has to do more with religion as Catholic Albanians were quite rebelious towards the Ottoman Empire
 
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Arbus

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That is strange, Albanians were viewed quite favourably in Ottoman administrations. A lot of Ottoman's viziers were Albanians. Heck, even Muhammad Ali himself was Albanian. There should be shared trait(s) between Albanians and Turks so that Albanian is accepted in Ottoman Empire...

Albanians should start as an accepted culture of the Ottoman Empire imho. However, if/when the Ottoman Empire falls and modern Turkey emerges, Albanians should no longer be an accepted culture.
 
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Spartakus

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Each culture can only have one religion it is tied to. Apart from that pops can be of any religion of course.
That's an odd take with regards to North German and South German cultures where both should have a lot of protestant and catholic pops. What exctly are Protestant/Catholic taboos. And if they don't have any does it matter at all if a culture is linked to one of them?
 
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Alexhesse

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What about Muslim German pops then? Will they still have no taboo against wine?
Correct. They'll only have taboos from the religion tied to their culture.

That is strange, Albanians were viewed quite favourably in Ottoman administrations. A lot of Ottoman's viziers were Albanians. Heck, even Muhammad Ali himself was Albanian. There should be shared trait(s) between Albanians and Turks so that Albanian is accepted in Ottoman Empire...
That is a fair point. Do you have a suggestion for some kind of "trait" they could share that would make sense?

So what about North Caucasian culture? North Caucasian peoples are both Orthodox and Muslim. What religion they should been tied to? As I suggested before, maybe it's better to separate North Caucasian into Muslim Dagestani and Nakhs and Orthodox Adyge cultures? The current setup in North Caucasus just make no sense.
North Caucasian is currently tied to Sunni. Again, this does not mean North Caucasian pops can't have other religions though.

Do cultures impact the technology spread? I'd imagine that two countries having majority of population speaking the same language or sharing some cultural understandings would communicate more and lead to better ideas spread.
Tech spread is not affected by cultures, no.

New Zealand, just like Neverland and Acre (not that one, the other one) are fictitious places and everyone knows it.
Hey, Acre is a real place! I once saw a car claiming to be from Rio Branco - AC. Felt like a dream!
 
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Vernichtere

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I hope that the maps are not exactly correct, but only show the dominant culture. About the Ukraine or the Crimea were mixed. Classic example Galicia. Lviv was Polish and partly Jewish dominated. The Ukrainians sat in rural areas.

I also want my German upper class in the Baltic States.
 
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xKostyariKx

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Aah that Soviet Kazakhstan borders... And also, is there such a culture as Swiss?
Also somebody mentioned North Caucasian - yes, it is actually a melting pot, even with simplification, states should have several cultures, not just one common.
 

Al-Khalidi

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Because it's wrong lol. Even today Turks are not the majority or plurality in, for example, Van. Armenians were the plurality in Van and Bitlis at the very least and Kurds would have been next up there, not Turks. And while Turks are massively overrepresented in Eastern Anatolia, they're absent in Western Thrace where they were the plurality.
Your failure to grasp mine (and devs') point is funny, I mean shouldn't be that hard to understand how this map works (states' borders might also be different from historical lands). But read couple of times more and maybe you'll get there.
 
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Nitan17

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Correct. They'll only have taboos from the religion tied to their culture.
Very disappointing. All that effort to make Pops very detailed and in-depth, and then you just go and hardcode the Culture-Religion relation. Makes religious conversion feel hollow, IIRC now it only matters for religious discrimination. The Taboos and Obsessions system was a great way to make Culture and Religion matter, make them affect Pop behaviour, but because of that hardcoded link this system only takes Culture into account and the Religion a Pop follows is ignored completely.
 
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Arbus

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Your failure to grasp mine (and devs') point is funny, I mean shouldn't be that hard to understand how this map works (states' borders might also be different from historical lands). But read couple of times more and maybe you'll get there.

There is one more twist you’re not considering which is political clout. I think the map is showing the homeland of the culture with the majority of political clout, not necessarily total pop. So in fact Van can be majority Armenian in absolute pop terms, but Turks have higher political influence, so it shows on the map as Turkish homeland.

Overall I think this map is just confusing and not helpful at all.
 
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I am not an expert in Ukrainian history. But most of this Don river valley was settled by the Don Cossacks, Ukrainian speakers. Here is an image I found online (no idea what the source is). I can't tell if Uriupins'k is in yellow or not, but it looks to me like it is.
View attachment 871029
That is difficult to say. We're talking about the fact that they were mostly peasants, illiterate peasants. This means that there was hardly any overarching identity. In the surveys, the farmers usually only understood the question about religion. The early researchers tried somehow to record the dialects. The standard language, i.e. the written language in Russian and Ukrainian, developed towards the end of the nineteenth century.

Many maps are more modern attempts to support territorial claims.


Especially in relation to the Don Cossacks or the Caucasus. The Don Cossacks were often composed of escaped serfs or natives. In the Caucasus, farmers were simply settled from other parts of the empire to secure the area.


You won't get an exact map. What's to be hoped for is that the map won't be monolithic.
 

Al-Khalidi

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There is one more twist you’re not considering which is political clout. I think the map is showing the homeland of the culture with the majority of political clout, not necessarily total pop. So in fact Van can be majority Armenian in absolute pop terms, but Turks have higher political influence, so it shows on the map as Turkish homeland.

Overall I think this map is just confusing and not helpful at all.
I thought it didnt show political power. If so, I would guess Cyprus and Crete would be marked Turkish and Bosnia Bosnian.. (Ive seen one map of cultural political power where Bosnia was visibly Bosnian.
 
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Atheism is not currently represented in the game, no. It's an interesting idea we might get back to in the future. For now, the closest we have are secular laws and ideologies which attempt to separate state and church.
As much as i am adamant that absence of religion is by definition NOT a religion, it might be an acceptable choice to classify it as such in game terms.
After all, atheists (or even more so apostates) are severely persecuted in many countries in the world. Specifically under fundamentalist state religions. The social mechanism are in my opinion similar to religious persecution, why i think it would be reasonable to apply the same model of religion to atheism.

In the same way how the 20th century wave of communist totalitarianism has been treating their brand of atheism effectively a state religion like other fundamentalist religious nations have done with their religions. (Even though technically, not a religion.)

I would personally like if there was a proper note that while atheism does not necessarily mean non-religious, it doesn't constitute a religion in an of itself, either. (technically any religion without gods is atheistic; i.e. many branches of Buddhism are without any belief into a deity-like entity)

Alternatively, do not call it "Atheism", but "areligious" or "nonreligious".
Because i would really like to avoid reading "Religion: Atheism" anywhere, i might be able to accept "Religion: Non-Religious".
That might be the simplest solution to avoid this whole semantics-mess.
 
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Arbus

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I thought it didnt show political power. If so, I would guess Cyprus and Crete would be marked Turkish and Bosnia Bosnian.. (Ive seen one map of cultural political power where Bosnia was visibly Bosnian.

Sigh, honestly if that's the case and some maps take political power into consideration and others don't, it's even more confusing.
 

UncannyBeast

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I see some problems with the cultures map of Indian subcontinent, particularly "Rajput" being a culture. To clarify, "Rajput" is not a culture, it is a caste identity. Only 5% of people of Rajasthan (The area where it is shown) are rajputs. A better name would be "Rajasthani".
 
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