Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #55 - Achievements

[Grave461]

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Anarchy in the UK: Starting as Great Britain, have an Anarchist form of government.

My favorite achievement so far.... love the reference.

 

[TempestM]

Because it rhymes less

 

[praftd]

Can't wait for the "Unlock all achievements mod".

What exactly is the point of achievements anymore? Do they offer any purpose? It used to be a collectable, now it isn't. What's the point?

Not really an "achievement" if there is nothing to actually achieve.

 

[Kaspar Osraige]

ULTRA EASY(Congrats you started the game and played until <certain point in game> with country <xyz>)
These are bottom of the barrel achievements that have no requirement other than passing enough time in the game until you press the right button or get it automatically

• Perkeletankki: Starting as Finland, produce at least 100 units of tanks every week.
• Anarchy in the UK: Starting as Great Britain, have an Anarchist form of government.
• I didn’t vote for Pedro: Starting as Brazil, change government to Republic and implement Universal Suffrage.
• Go West, Young Man: Starting as the USA, own California, Oregon and Washington with 250k or more population in each.
• The Paris Commune: Starting as France, become a Council Republic and have a Command Economy.
• Miners and Minors: Starting as Lanfang, incorporate all states in Borneo and have the 'Compulsory Primary School' law.
• Healthy Man of Europe: Starting as the Ottomans, be the Greatest Power while having max level Public Health Insurance.
• Habsburg Resurgence: Starting as Austria, own Silesia and Prussia must be Minor Power or lower rank.
• The Great Game: Starting as Russia, own the entire Central Asia region.
• Bourbon for Everyone: Starting as Spain, have an average standard of living of at least 20 while remaining a monarchy.
• Manifest Mexico: Starting as Mexico, own the Pacific Coast & Great Plains, and have a higher Power Rank than the USA.
• Broken Promises: As Italy, join a diplomatic play against 2 or more of your allies.
• The Berlin Conference: Starting as Prussia, form Germany and fully own at least 10 states in Africa.
• Deeds, Not Words: Pass the Women's Suffrage law.
• First Flight: Be the first nation in the world to fly aeroplanes.
• Victorian Century: Play a full campaign from 1836 to 1936.
• Poor, Huddled Masses: Have a cultural migration target in one of your states.
• Serf’s Up: Starting as a nation with Serfdom, enact Worker’s Protections Labour Rights Law.
• Risorgimento: Form the nation of Italy.
• Three Hurrahs: Form the nation of Germany.
• Solomon’s Quest: Form the nation of Ethiopia.
• I am a Scandinavian: Form the nation of Scandinavia.
• Enlightened Despot: Have electrical street lights in all states while being an Autocracy.
• Mightier than the Sword: Have the other side back down in a diplomatic play.
• Revolutionary: Switch sides to the revolutionaries in a civil war and win the ensuing conflict.
• We Are Not Amused: Starting as Great Britain, Expel Diplomats of a Great Power with Cordial or better relations.
• Institutional: Have an institution at maximum investment level.

Many are not easy as you make them out to be. Being anarchist in anywhere is hard, it will definitely be hard as a world-spanning empire. Playing Lanfang is hard against the Dutch and the British. Surpassing Britain, France, Germany and US as Ottomans is challenging. Beating US as Mexico definitely requires fine playership. First flight is probably easy if you plan it and beeline but definitely not automatical. Rest are easy achievements but they exist in all Paradox games. Pretty sure both EUIV and CKIII have achievements for MARRYING, and that's a literal day one click. Not all of them are supposed to be hard anyway.

EASY
These require some basic knowledge of the gameplay mechanics to optimize your country in some way

• Peccavi:Starting as the British India Company, fully own the states of Sindh and Punjab.
  • While the Sikh Empire is the strongest contender in the region, it has no chance unless China or Russia help it
• Belle Époque: Starting as France, have the highest GDP per capita and Innovation generation in the world.
  • Might require a minimum of game knowledge in regards to economic planning
• Reading Campaign:Starting as a nation with less than 20% literacy, get to 100% literacy.
  • Considering a 100% literacy nation doesn't exist in the world, this would be quite the achievement, but something tells me it won't be all that hard
• Poppydock: Have at least a level 8 port and export at least 2500 units of Opium to foreign markets.
  • Actually this should go to Ultra Easy, but...I guess you have to at least plan a little bit?
• Inventive: Research all technologies across all three categories.
  • Might require basic knowledge of game mechanics

Peccavi is easy, Belle Epoque is definitely challenging. Literacy now works different than maxing out the education slider with you actually having to maintain schools so Reading Campaign is definitely doable only in late game with sufficient technology and spending. The Opium one is probably doable only as an independent India or China, but still a challenge for them and very challenging for anyone else. Inventive is definitely hard. It required an especially tall gameplay even in Victoria 2 and this game has innovation much more complex.

MEDIUM
These achievements require careful planning and precise execution

• Mohammed Ali’s Ambition:S tarting as Egypt, form Arabia and own Thrace.
  • Heavily bordering easy territory; once the Ottomans are out of the picture there is nothing stopping you
• The Western Protectorate: Starting as Great Qing, have a treaty port in France, Germany, the British Isles, Iberia and Italy.
  • By endgame you will probably be able to war the entire world on your own anyways as China
• Star-Swarmed Banner: As the United States, have 100 incorporated states represented on your flag.
  • Who can stop the player-led USA from conquering America? Nobody.
• Billionaire: Have a national GDP of at least £1 billion.
  • Automatically achieved when you do The Western Protectorate
• Grander Colombia: Form Grand Colombia and own all land in the Gran Colombia, Andes, and La Plata strategic regions.
  • Not all that strong at the start of the game, it will depend on how much USA and European powers decide to meddle

When you call these medium it's just bragging. Like come on, it is fairly hard to beat Ottomans as Egypt, let alone getting their capital as well as many Arab lands some of which are under Western control by that point. Western Protectorate is VERY hard. You have to westernize and then separately beat every significant European power with all their allies. How do you shrug it off as "Eh, you're China."? Star Swarmed Banner is hard because you have to INCORPORATE the states. You know, setting institutions and crushing separatism in all of them with crazy amounts of bureaucracy. Good players will do it but it will require a lot of work. Billionaire is automatically achieved when you beat the entire world as China lol. Is that even automatical at that point? Also Grander Colombia will be hard until you get it rolling, with Brazil and Argentina challenging you. It will definitely require a specific playthrough to do it. Plus it is not only there to be hard. It is there because it has historical precedent and is a cool playthrough.

HARD
Depending on world circumstances it might not be doable or you must be a very well learned player

• Luxurious Luxemburg: Starting as Luxembourg, be the leading producer of Luxury Clothes, Luxury Furniture, and Porcelain.
  • OPM start, will probably have to form Benelux or some meme country, it's easy if you can form Germany which I dunno
  • It might require suppressing China to dominate in Porcelain(do they have a special PM?), France and USA strong contenders in LC and LF production
  • Depends very much on how strong the AI is on release(will be easy lol)
• An Empire Under the Pun: Starting as the Sikh Empire, subjugate Great Britain.
• Barbary’s Back: Starting as Algeria, retake Algiers and become a Major Power.
• American Territory: Starting as the Indian Territory, have the USA as a subject with no more than three states.
  • Realistically(and videogamemically) this shouldn't be possible so: Just play the game, do the meme

Yeah, it is easy if you beat Prussia and Austria as an insignificant OPM. That isn't the definition of easy though. It will require uniting the Benelux and probably colonizing large swathes of Asia. Sikh Empire and American Territory are pretty meme-like and basically impossible, American Territory more so. It will probably require conquering around Mexico and Caribbean, then getting some nice British help. Sikh Empire one requires beating EIC and then proceeding to fight British a lot more but sounds more plausible at least. Barbary's Back is, in my opinion, pretty much medium actually. You can probably catch France vulnerable at least once a game, plus Morocco and Tunis are there for conquest. You can beat Spain and Ottomans by that point too as long as they're not having a good game.

IN TOTAL

• 27 Participation trophies
• 5 Easy
• 5 Medium
• 4 Hard
• 4 Unrated

Make of that what you will, but personally I am not a fan of these no-brain achievements. Everything below easy might as well not exist.

In total, these achievements are not supposed to be a full-set of impossible to do challenges, they all sound like fun playthroughs to try. If you want the former more than the latter, EU series do it pretty well. But I prefer a unite Ethiopia achievement to conquering the world as Ryukyu. My only complaint would be nearly all of these require special, dedicated playthroughs, not enough country-neutral challenges in economical, political or social feats exist.

 

[Kaspar Osraige]

Can't wait for the "Unlock all achievements mod".

What exactly is the point of achievements anymore? Do they offer any purpose? It used to be a collectable, now it isn't. What's the point?

I'll download it the day it comes out and brag about it in the forums and on Reddit. What could anybody do?

By the way, unrelated but all achievement art looks amazing so props to the artist Paradox works with. They're great!

 

[praftd]

I'll download it the day it comes out and brag about it in the forums and on Reddit. What could anybody do?

By the way, unrelated but all achievement art looks amazing so props to the artist Paradox works with. They're great!

I get you are being sarcastic but the entire concept of game achievements is based on them being semi-scarce and a collectable form of community competition.

There is zero point for them existing if you take away the premise they are based upon. The "achievement" part of the achievement is gone.

Although I suppose in-game participation trophies appeal to many.

 

[TempestM]

Since when Steam achievements are competition anyway? You can't even see the list of people who owns it.
Actual form of competition would be some kind of leaderboards, with a score. Not easily exploitable check

 

[praftd]

Since when Steam achievements are competition anyway?

Since always. Games show the percentage of people who have earned a specific achievement. Just because it isn't a competition between two specific people doesn't mean it isn't a competition. The entire point of achievement-hunting is to try to get achievements other people have not. That some degree of scarcity exists.

When an achievement shows only 0.2% of people achieved it, it incentives people to try. The entire point of achievements is that not everyone will get them.

Most people don't care about achievements, but those that do care about the challenge and rarity in getting them.

Take that away and who exactly are achievements supposed to appeal to?

 

[InsidiousMage]

Take that away and who exactly are achievements supposed to appeal to?

Paradox hasn't taken anything away!!! Hard to get achievements are still going to be hard to get! What don't people understand about that. Quoting myself. . . .

Okay, here are some hard numbers to compare a game without achievement restrictions, Civ6, to one with restrictions, CK3. The most basic "have you spent ten minutes playing the game" achievement has an 80% completion in Civ6, build ten improvements, while in CK3 it is 33%, get married. Civ6 has difficulty levels, with Deity being the highest, and currently 6% of players have won on Deity. Achievements with similar rates of completion in CK3 are reach max court grandeur, reach max level of splendor, fully upgrade a duchy building and unlock all innovations. I don't think achievements based on "basic play the game well achievements" should really the have the same value as beating the game on the highest difficulty setting, yet they have the same achievement rate because of Iron Man mode. The only thing Iron Man does is restrict who can get achievements, not make them hard.

 

[Kaspar Osraige]

I get you are being sarcastic but the entire concept of game achievements is based on them being semi-scarce and a collectable form of community competition.

There is zero point for them existing if you take away the premise they are based upon. The "achievement" part of the achievement is gone.

Although I suppose in-game participation trophies appeal to many.

Jokes aside, I feel like I would be fine if modding didn't disrupt ironman but achievements still required ironman so you can't just return to older saves in achievement runs. But then again, Steam achievements were already cheatable, so feeling of accomplishment isn't any more gone. If you post an achievement post into for example the subreddit you can specify it's ironman, because that's definitely more impressive. But I still appreciate the freedom for more casual people. I am a student but many people here are grown ups with children and stuff who've been waiting since Vicky 2 came out. Not everyone has the time to try and do ten re-runs on some achievement. And the game shouldn't work that hard to make bragging rights feel earned.

Plus, Skyrim has had console not disrupting achievements for a bazillion years and still some achievements are pretty rare, so evidentially people don't cheat like crazy the moment they can do it.

 

[praftd]

Hard to get achievements are still going to be hard to get!

Except they won't because you can just cheat, mod, and save scum the results you want.

And people absolutely will.

People will always take the path of least resistance. Always.

 

[TempestM]

Since always. Games show the percentage of people who have earned a specific achievement. Just because it isn't a competition between two specific people doesn't mean it isn't a competition. The entire point of achievement-hunting is to try to get achievements other people have not. That some degree of scarcity exists.

When an achievement shows only 0.2% of people achieved it, it incentives people to try. The entire point of achievements is that not everyone will get them.

Most people don't care about achievements, but those that do care about the challenge and rarity in getting them.

Take that away and who exactly are achievements supposed to appeal to?

Kinda weird competition when most participants aren't even aware you're competing

 

[praftd]

But then again, Steam achievements were already cheatable

Not nearly as easy as you seem to think it is. And typically it is game-specific

PDX game achievements were never particularly easy to cheat and the achievement statistics reflect that reality.

 

[praftd]

Kinda weird competition when most participants aren't even aware you're competing

Welcome to the entire point of achievement-hunting. It is what it is.

Most people don't achievement hunt. At all. The overwhelming majority don't.

Which is why I ask, who is this change for? Achievement hunters hate it and average people don't care.

 

[TempestM]

Take that away and who exactly are achievements supposed to appeal to?

I did all of them in CK2 without Ironman. Doing most in HOI4 now. If I'll like V3 enough I'll do all of them, this time without SAM. They still appeal to me


And somehow I wasn't even aware you're competing with me. So maybe it's not very competitive after all

 

[TempestM]

Welcome to the entire point of achievement-hunting. It is what it is.

Most people don't achievement hunt. At all. The overwhelming majority don't.

Which is why I ask, who is this change for? Achievement hunters hate it and average people don't care.

I still don't see how achievement hunting being niche makes it competitive


Speedrunning is competitive because players try to beat each other's score.
Completing the achievement first ever, or the fastest, might be competitive, because there's a best score. But that would be speedrunning involving achievements

Achievement hunting, however, is not completive, because there are no winners and losers

 

[praftd]

I still don't see how achievement hunting being niche makes it competitive

Being niche isn't what makes it competitive. Collectibility and scarcity does.

Whenever there is something other people don't have or is hard to get, people will try to get it.

If you give it out for free, what few people cared will stop caring.

 

[InsidiousMage]

Except they won't because you can just cheat, mod, and save scum the results you want.

And people absolutely will.

People will always take the path of least resistance. Always.

As people have pointed out multiple times in this thread people can already cheat to get achievements in a variety of ways! There is nothing stopping people from cheating to get achievements right now and there is no evidence of people doing so! You can cheese achievements in Civ6 with just RNG and yet there are no evidence people have done so! The insecurity and paranoia in the arguments made by the pro-restriction posters is just bizarre.

 

[Idle America]

Star-Swarmed Banner: As the United States, have 100 incorporated states represented on your flag.

Let's go, baby! Pax Americana!

 

[wilcoxchar]

Achievements dev diary is usually one, two diaries before the release!

This doesn't really mean much. PDXcon is still two weeks away, and we're only getting a release date announcement in a week and a half. This is much more likely a sign that the game is now approaching feature completeness and there's still a few months of balance tweaking left after the convention and the feedback from it.