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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #53 - Characters

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Welcome back! With the traditional Swedish summer vacations over, the Victoria 3 team is back to work and that means the resumption of dev diaries. Today we’re going to take a look at Characters and their various facets, including Leader Ideologies, Traits, Popularity, and more.

His Imperial and Royal Apostolic Majesty, By the Grace of God Emperor of Austria, King of Hungary and Bohemia, Dalmatia, Croatia, Slavonia, Galicia, Lodomeria and Illyria; King of Jerusalem, etc.; Archduke of Austria; Grand Duke of Tuscany and Cracow; Duke of Lorraine, Salzburg, Styria, Carintia, Carniola and Bukovina; Grand Prince of Transylvania, Margrave of Moravia; Duke of Upper and Lower Silesia, of Modena, Parma, Piacenza and Guastalla, of Auschwitz and Zator, of Teschen, Friaul, Ragusa and Zara; Princely Count of Habsburg and Tyrol, of Kyburg, Gorizia and Gradisca; Prince of Trento and Brixen; Margrave of Upper and Lower Lusatia and in Istria; Count of Hohenems, Feldkirch, Bregenz, Sonnenberg etc.;
Lord of Trieste, of Cattaro and on the Windic March; Grand Voivode of the Voivodeship of Serbia etc., etc.

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Interest Group Ideologies, such as Liberal for the Intelligentsia and Jingoist for the Armed Forces, are for the most part set in stone outside of some special instances. Interest Groups represent broad class interests rather than the prevailing political zeitgeist, so we’ve taken care to ensure that their Ideologies align with those interests. The Rural Folk’s Particularist Ideology, for instance, opposes Serfdom, Debt Slavery, and Peasant Levies - and it’s difficult to imagine them changing their stance on such matters.

Market Liberals can appear after researching Stock Exchange, and may well decide that they want to shake up your tightly controlled or agrarian economy.
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The Ideologies of your Interest Group Leaders, however, do represent the prevailing political zeitgeist within their own section of society. Every character comes with their own personal Ideology, determined by a wide variety of factors reflecting the material and political conditions of your nation. I’ll list a few examples of these factors:

  • Fascist leaders are more likely to emerge in countries that are paying War Reparations after losing a war.
  • Radical leaders are more likely to emerge in absolute monarchies with high turmoil in incorporated states.
  • Communist leaders are more likely to emerge in countries with large urban centers and low living standards for the lower strata.
  • Social Democrats are less likely to emerge from content Interest Groups - angry IG’s will turn towards more radical forms of socialism.
  • Theocrats are more likely to emerge when your country has the State Religion law and the Devout Interest Group is powerful.
  • Market Liberals are more likely to emerge in countries with large Urban Centers and less “modern” economic laws like Traditionalism and Mercantilism.

Mr Marx here is one of several historical figures who has been lovingly sculpted by our artists. He can show up in your country shortly after researching Socialism, and may become the Interest Group Leader for the Trade Unions.
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Some characters have a specially defined historical appearance, such as Mr Marx here or the Kaiser above. We’ll have a limited number of these on release, but we expect to continue adding more historical DNA to both characters present in the start date and characters who can emerge later in the game. Likewise, many countries (especially those we expect to be popular among players) have an historical set of starting Interest Group Leaders and Commanders but not all. Once again we expect to flesh this out further as we deep-dive into particular regions post-release. Where historical characters haven’t been defined, the game will generate a character with an appropriate Ideology based on the factors described above.

A variety of historical figures can emerge as the game progresses beyond 1836. We can define everything you’d expect about a character like their religion, ethnicity, and traits, but there’s also a little more we can do here. Taking US President Abraham Lincoln as an example, we’ve set the earliest date that he can become an Interest Group leader to 1847 (when he first entered the House of Representatives, joining the national political stage). We can set both country-level and Interest Group-level triggers on when it’s appropriate for a character to emerge - Lincoln can emerge only in the USA, and he can join either the Intelligentsia or Rural Folk if they are not Marginalized. We can also determine the chance that a politician will emerge every time a suitable Interest Group selects a new leader.

Santa Anna’s political and military career is as long as it is fascinating. The day he was captured by the Texan army however was not one of his best days - should this happen in Victoria 3, Mexico will be forced to capitulate and recognize Texan independence.
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Every character has one or more Roles that determine their impact on your nation. Characters can sometimes have multiple roles, for instance it is possible to Grant Command to your monarchs and dictators give them the ability to command your armed forces personally. Characters can have the following Roles:

  • Rulers. The King, the President, the Pope, the head honcho of the nation. Who rules your country is determined by your Governance Principles law.
  • Heirs. Heirs exist only in monarchies, and primarily spend their time waiting for mummy or daddy to pop off so they can have their turn on the throne.
  • Politicians. These are Interest Group Leaders, whose ideologies are a huge determining factor for the laws you can pass and the Political Movements that will emerge.
  • Commanders. Your Generals and Admirals, heroically (or not so heroically) leading your forces into battle.

A Charismatic Interest Group Leader can provide a very large boost to their IG’s Pop Attraction, which if you want to empower that IG can be a powerful advantage in realizing your ambitions. If the Charismatic leader is a member of an IG you are not so keen on however, they may become a painful thorn in your side.
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Each character also has Character Traits. Traits have a variety of effects, and these effects can differ depending on the Character’s Role(s). Let’s take the Cruel Trait as an example. All Cruel characters take a very substantial hit to their Popularity (more on that in just a bit), but the other effects are applied depending on the character’s role. A Cruel commander will encourage his forces to cause more casualties to the enemy and more devastation in the course of the war. When an IG has a Cruel leader, they will gain more approval for being included in the government. Finally, a Cruel Ruler enjoys cheaper Decrees (Violent Suppression might be a favorite), but opposition IG’s will more readily disapprove of the government and all pops in the nation will have reduced standard of living. Other Traits include Ambitious, Pillager, Innovative, and of course Opium Addict.

A character’s virtues and vices may impact their Popularity - Mr Pretorius here has many fine qualities, but his relationship with cocaine has caused his otherwise stellar reputation to take a hit.
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Popularity is a measure of a Character’s reputation among the people of the nation. It comes primarily from their Traits, but many Events will cause Characters to rise and fall in the arena of public opinion. Like Traits, the effects of a Character’s Popularity depends on their Role(s). For the Ruler, Popularity adds Legitimacy to their government. The Popularity of Interest Group Leaders affects the attractiveness of their IG to pops and is a contributing factor to Momentum in Elections. Finally, combat units will regain their morale faster (or slower!) depending on the Popularity of their Commander.

Characters play an important role in Victoria 3. They rule nations, dominate internal politics, and command armies. Through their Ideologies, new and old ideas clash in the arena of government and public opinion, while their Traits will help or hinder their goals as well as yours.

And that is all for today! Next week, Martin will unveil the revisions to the trade mechanics since we last covered them.
 
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I always thought that not having historical figures or major leaders with individual personalities made Victoria a bit colorless, so I like these additions.
 
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It's possible but I think a better way to distinguish would be to bring back CK2's Wikipedia links (or some other source, especially if there's a freely available more authoritative one). Ironically, it didn't age well in that game because CK2 was so about characters that bringing in historical ones was hard - you essentially had to give them a lot of forces and tell them to conquer something in order to realize a character was meant to matter irl. But V3 doesn't have to justify how they came into existence; only say that they do. So bringing back that button might make a nice touch for who the real Karl Marx is - if you normally click on a character and see nothing, but then you see someone with a little information button, you know you're looking at a real person.

Or maybe I'm the only one who remembers that feature fondly but I think it'd make for a nice indicator here.
Also reasonable. I quite liked that myself as it often pointed out very obscure individuals from real life (or legend).
 
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ferdinand von habsburg looks like he makes frankenstein toy abominations

(also no wilhelm gottsreich sigismond von ormstein? game is trash 0/10)

in full honesty, please give the facial hair some tooling. i'm a marxist and even i had to squint and turn my head sideways to recognize karl marx as karl marx
 
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Will royal families be well represented or will it be like eu4 where you just have a ruler, a consort, and an heir. So if the heir dies your brothers and other sons somehow disappear from the universe. Will there be rules over inheritance, so if you have a female heir as a german you switch dynasty and possibly enter a PU? Is Victoria subsequently always fated to rise to the throne and end the union with Hannover?
Okay, I have told you to play Victoria 2 a lot of times but this time I'll surprisingly say go play Crusader Kings. Why would anybody think any of that is in the scope of Victoria series? We probably don't need every inbred Habsburg prince do we?
 
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Very nice.

One very small historical nitpick. Santa Anna shouldn't be a moderate, he should be a conservative, or something similar at this point in history. The whole reason for the Texan rebellion and the other rebellions occuring at that time was him doing away with the previous more liberal constitution and instituting a more centralzied constitution. Furthermore, the main dividing line betwene conservatives and liberals in Mexico was attitude towards the church, and Santa Anna was with the church here, IIRC.
 
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We've scripted starting heirs in most (if not all) monarchies in 1836. After that, characters are randomly generated.

How about historical presidents? Grover Cleveland, for example, was the first US President born after the start date.
 
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How much Historical/ Ahistorical will Interwar Era Charecters will be?
Can Will Still see Hitler/ Stalin?
i doubt it, tbh. i wouldn't be surprised if someone like lenin was introduced via event but hitler and stalin are too late (hitler secured total power over germany in 1935 and stalin secured power* in the USSR in 1934)

*he was leader of a troika for a few years before this but he didn't really become paramount leader until 1934
 
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i doubt it, tbh. i wouldn't be surprised if someone like lenin was introduced via event but hitler and stalin are too late (hitler secured total power over germany in 1935 and stalin secured power* in the USSR in 1934)

*he was leader of a troika for a few years before this but he didn't really become paramount leader until 1934
Yes, but Hitler, for example, would be the leader of the NSDAP beforehand (assuming the Strasser brothers don't win the conflict, idk how/if that'd be modeled).

That is, assuming the NSDAP is even in the game, which it might not be.
 
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So does each IG only have one IG Leader, or is IG Leader just a general term for major people *in* an IG?
My impression from earlier DDs was that an IG would have several people jockeying for leadership and the player could choose which one is (nominally) in charge.

Hope this can be turned off. This is too railroady for my liking.
How so?

As I understand it, the idea isn't that the game drops historical characters on you out of the blue. e.g., Marx doesn't show up in Germany at a predefined date or anything. Rather, when the game generates characters, if any of their historical characters fit the profile, they have a chance to show up instead of a randomly generated one.

That is, when the game looks at your tech, policies, interest groups, and general situation, and decides you're going to get a Western European Communist leader for your Trade Unions, it may pick the handcrafted Marx instead of generating a random character for you. But it's not going to push Marx on you when it wouldn't be suitable to spawn him.

I would also be happy if I can avoid inventing socialism. As much as we might not be able to stop socialism, there sure will be multiple ways of dealing with socialists
Keep in mind the difference between "people in our country are generally aware of the political position of 'socialism'" and "people in our country want socialists to govern". You can only avoid the ideology being known in broad terms if you shut out all political thought from outside, which is going to be extremely difficult if you want to do any trading or interacting with your neighbors. But you can prevent it from becoming popular through a wide variety of means.
 
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Very nice.

One very small historical nitpick. Santa Anna shouldn't be a moderate, he should be a conservative, or something similar at this point in history. The whole reason for the Texan rebellion and the other rebellions occuring at that time was him doing away with the previous more liberal constitution and instituting a more centralzied constitution. Furthermore, the main dividing line betwene conservatives and liberals in Mexico was attitude towards the church, and Santa Anna was with the church here, IIRC.
conservative-moderate-liberal is probably global rather than national? so a conservative in mexico a moderate globally from e.g. opposing slavery, republican not monarchist, etc?
 
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Wouldn't communist leaders be more likely to emerge in largely agrarian countries with low sol? China and russia weren't exactly on the bleeding edge of urbanization and industrialization and they're the only examples of nations where communist ideologues were really successful.
Pretty much all normal Marxists before the Russian Revolution were very insistent that the revolution could only take place in wealthy, developed, capitalist countries (think Britain, France, Germany). They definitely didn't think Russia would be a good target, and they certainly weren't thinking about China as a place where communism could take power.

In fact, the Bolsheviks' core of support was the relatively small urban working class (Russia was very rural and not very capitalist) and the soldiers (mighty convenient group to have on your side in a chaotic, violent revolution). There were lots of other not-really-Marxist socialist strains whose base of support was the peasants, the Narodniks and their Socialist Revolutionary Party in particular (side question, what ideology will the SRs and the Narodniks be? Because Social Democrat and Communist both seem very wrong, they should probably be some sort of Agrarian Socialism if that exists).

The Chinese Civil War and Maoism is really when that strain of agrarian Marxism is actually born, but that's well after Victoria's timeline, so I feel like that should be left out. I feel like separating revolutionary socialists into urban-focused Marxists and rural-focused agrarian socialists would be a good idea.


The logic here would be that communist CHARACTERS are more likely to appear in industrialized countries, but communist REVOLUTIONS are more likely in undeveloped periphery countries. This would be because, as historically, a country keeping pace with industrialization and some degree of political representation would not be as vulnerable to unrest and revolution as a largely rural country that has to keep a large population fed in a world where grain prices are set by countries with mechanized agriculture and an empire of land to grow on.

In gameplay terms, I do expect this to be a balance/immersion issue where you regularly have Great Britian or the US having communist revolutions when AI operated. Hopefully not however.
The old Marxists certainly disagreed that communist revolutions are more likely to appear in underdeveloped countries, and honestly, particularly when it comes to the Russian Revolution, I think I'd have to agree with them. If you're looking for an urban working class led revolution, you'd expect that in country with ... a sizeable urban working class. Russia didn't have that and the Bolsheviks were only really able to take power through a bizarre series of coincidences and lucky breaks.

Though, I think the sort of agrarian socialism that the Narodniks and Mao were pushing would be pretty reasonable to take over in rural, undeveloped countries like these. It's just the urban-focused Marxists taking over a notoriously rural country that's bizarre to me.

I feel like, if we're in a world where socialist revolutions are relatively likely, the UK and the US seem like perfectly plausible candidates for communist revolutions, so I don't think that would be a balance issue at all. In fact, if we're only getting Persian and Korean and Indian communist revolutions (very cool to see, but I wouldn't want them to be the only ones), I think that would be a balance issue.
 
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So... how mobile are these characters? If we, as players, feel that Mr. Marx is not being given the proper opportunities for his talents, is there a way to lure him away from his place of residence? Alternatively, if we should feel that General McClellan's talents would be more appreciated by the Dominion of Canada, could we perhaps offer him a tidy one-time payment and a train ticket?
 
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Do we need Marx's middle name? It's really, really uncommon to see somebody refer to him as Karl Heinrich Marx, and even back in the day, to my knowledge he used just Karl Marx in his publications. (EDIT: his tomb also omits his middle name)
As far as I can tell by a quick google search he didn't even have a middle name. Both his birth certificat and his marriage papers list him as Karl or Carl Marx - no Heinrich whatsoever. The "Heinrich" appears on his university papers for some obscure reason and apparently Engels wrote a piece of paper on him where he refered to him as Heinrich Karl Marx (in that order).
It's propably best to use the name he is commonly known by, i.e. Karl Marx.
 
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So... how mobile are these characters? If we, as players, feel that Mr. Marx is not being given the proper opportunities for his talents, is there a way to lure him away from his place of residence? Alternatively, if we should feel that General McClellan's talents would be more appreciated by the Dominion of Canada, could we perhaps offer him a tidy one-time payment and a train ticket?
I want to lure Santa Anna so he can fulfill his rightful destiny, as the king of norway.

But for reals, if you conquer/union/etc-annex a nation you should get it's characters. maybe leading nation remnant factions, i.e. Peru annexes Bhutan, you get the Bhutanese interest groups now prefexed Bhutanese- for X years as they integrate into the national interest groups and then maths happens (population support/policies/prestige/etc between characters to see who leads)
But the main person is for them to be still around for independence rebellions and so if the nation is released or wins freedom, it gets its old characters back not generated new no bodies.

Also with unions, an equal union that isnt a conquest should get leaders from all members joining not just the primary tag (i.e. if Germany forms through the '48 revolution, they get the 'best' characters from throughout germany, not just the characters of Frankfurt or which tag mechanically formed it?
 
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Does Interest group leaders cover ethnic minorities?

Will the game be able to use characters to represent rebel leads, independence leaders and minority political leaders?

(AKA for NZ, the Kingitanga could be an interest group? or there could be a culture_group_group for Māori, and various figures from the time period from Hōne Heke, Te Kooti to Rua Kenana and Ratana could be event triggered to lead that group?)

No there are only 8 interest groups per country and they are all the same (Landowners, Devout, industrialists, Armed Forces, Intelligentsia, Petite Bourgeoisie, Trade Unionists and the Rural Folk.), minority religions and discriminated pops do not get IG's
 
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This is cool and all but I do find the focus on individual people a bit weird in a game series dedicated to the interactions of great swathes of types of people and the sociodemographic processes affecting millions.
The strongest forms of Great Man Theory are wrong, but so are the strongest forms of Great Man Theory Rejection Theory.

Donne's Law ("no man is an island, entire of itself") has to be held in mind, but the effects of single individuals in positions of power on the course of history do matter.

If the Russian socialists don't blow up the reformist Tsar Alexander II's bulletproof carriage, the flow of events from that point looks significantly different.
 
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