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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #53 - Characters

16_9 (3).jpg

Welcome back! With the traditional Swedish summer vacations over, the Victoria 3 team is back to work and that means the resumption of dev diaries. Today we’re going to take a look at Characters and their various facets, including Leader Ideologies, Traits, Popularity, and more.

His Imperial and Royal Apostolic Majesty, By the Grace of God Emperor of Austria, King of Hungary and Bohemia, Dalmatia, Croatia, Slavonia, Galicia, Lodomeria and Illyria; King of Jerusalem, etc.; Archduke of Austria; Grand Duke of Tuscany and Cracow; Duke of Lorraine, Salzburg, Styria, Carintia, Carniola and Bukovina; Grand Prince of Transylvania, Margrave of Moravia; Duke of Upper and Lower Silesia, of Modena, Parma, Piacenza and Guastalla, of Auschwitz and Zator, of Teschen, Friaul, Ragusa and Zara; Princely Count of Habsburg and Tyrol, of Kyburg, Gorizia and Gradisca; Prince of Trento and Brixen; Margrave of Upper and Lower Lusatia and in Istria; Count of Hohenems, Feldkirch, Bregenz, Sonnenberg etc.;
Lord of Trieste, of Cattaro and on the Windic March; Grand Voivode of the Voivodeship of Serbia etc., etc.

DD53_1.png

Interest Group Ideologies, such as Liberal for the Intelligentsia and Jingoist for the Armed Forces, are for the most part set in stone outside of some special instances. Interest Groups represent broad class interests rather than the prevailing political zeitgeist, so we’ve taken care to ensure that their Ideologies align with those interests. The Rural Folk’s Particularist Ideology, for instance, opposes Serfdom, Debt Slavery, and Peasant Levies - and it’s difficult to imagine them changing their stance on such matters.

Market Liberals can appear after researching Stock Exchange, and may well decide that they want to shake up your tightly controlled or agrarian economy.
DD53_2.png

The Ideologies of your Interest Group Leaders, however, do represent the prevailing political zeitgeist within their own section of society. Every character comes with their own personal Ideology, determined by a wide variety of factors reflecting the material and political conditions of your nation. I’ll list a few examples of these factors:

  • Fascist leaders are more likely to emerge in countries that are paying War Reparations after losing a war.
  • Radical leaders are more likely to emerge in absolute monarchies with high turmoil in incorporated states.
  • Communist leaders are more likely to emerge in countries with large urban centers and low living standards for the lower strata.
  • Social Democrats are less likely to emerge from content Interest Groups - angry IG’s will turn towards more radical forms of socialism.
  • Theocrats are more likely to emerge when your country has the State Religion law and the Devout Interest Group is powerful.
  • Market Liberals are more likely to emerge in countries with large Urban Centers and less “modern” economic laws like Traditionalism and Mercantilism.

Mr Marx here is one of several historical figures who has been lovingly sculpted by our artists. He can show up in your country shortly after researching Socialism, and may become the Interest Group Leader for the Trade Unions.
DD53_3.png

Some characters have a specially defined historical appearance, such as Mr Marx here or the Kaiser above. We’ll have a limited number of these on release, but we expect to continue adding more historical DNA to both characters present in the start date and characters who can emerge later in the game. Likewise, many countries (especially those we expect to be popular among players) have an historical set of starting Interest Group Leaders and Commanders but not all. Once again we expect to flesh this out further as we deep-dive into particular regions post-release. Where historical characters haven’t been defined, the game will generate a character with an appropriate Ideology based on the factors described above.

A variety of historical figures can emerge as the game progresses beyond 1836. We can define everything you’d expect about a character like their religion, ethnicity, and traits, but there’s also a little more we can do here. Taking US President Abraham Lincoln as an example, we’ve set the earliest date that he can become an Interest Group leader to 1847 (when he first entered the House of Representatives, joining the national political stage). We can set both country-level and Interest Group-level triggers on when it’s appropriate for a character to emerge - Lincoln can emerge only in the USA, and he can join either the Intelligentsia or Rural Folk if they are not Marginalized. We can also determine the chance that a politician will emerge every time a suitable Interest Group selects a new leader.

Santa Anna’s political and military career is as long as it is fascinating. The day he was captured by the Texan army however was not one of his best days - should this happen in Victoria 3, Mexico will be forced to capitulate and recognize Texan independence.
DD53_4.png

Every character has one or more Roles that determine their impact on your nation. Characters can sometimes have multiple roles, for instance it is possible to Grant Command to your monarchs and dictators give them the ability to command your armed forces personally. Characters can have the following Roles:

  • Rulers. The King, the President, the Pope, the head honcho of the nation. Who rules your country is determined by your Governance Principles law.
  • Heirs. Heirs exist only in monarchies, and primarily spend their time waiting for mummy or daddy to pop off so they can have their turn on the throne.
  • Politicians. These are Interest Group Leaders, whose ideologies are a huge determining factor for the laws you can pass and the Political Movements that will emerge.
  • Commanders. Your Generals and Admirals, heroically (or not so heroically) leading your forces into battle.

A Charismatic Interest Group Leader can provide a very large boost to their IG’s Pop Attraction, which if you want to empower that IG can be a powerful advantage in realizing your ambitions. If the Charismatic leader is a member of an IG you are not so keen on however, they may become a painful thorn in your side.
DD53_5.png

Each character also has Character Traits. Traits have a variety of effects, and these effects can differ depending on the Character’s Role(s). Let’s take the Cruel Trait as an example. All Cruel characters take a very substantial hit to their Popularity (more on that in just a bit), but the other effects are applied depending on the character’s role. A Cruel commander will encourage his forces to cause more casualties to the enemy and more devastation in the course of the war. When an IG has a Cruel leader, they will gain more approval for being included in the government. Finally, a Cruel Ruler enjoys cheaper Decrees (Violent Suppression might be a favorite), but opposition IG’s will more readily disapprove of the government and all pops in the nation will have reduced standard of living. Other Traits include Ambitious, Pillager, Innovative, and of course Opium Addict.

A character’s virtues and vices may impact their Popularity - Mr Pretorius here has many fine qualities, but his relationship with cocaine has caused his otherwise stellar reputation to take a hit.
DD53_6.png

Popularity is a measure of a Character’s reputation among the people of the nation. It comes primarily from their Traits, but many Events will cause Characters to rise and fall in the arena of public opinion. Like Traits, the effects of a Character’s Popularity depends on their Role(s). For the Ruler, Popularity adds Legitimacy to their government. The Popularity of Interest Group Leaders affects the attractiveness of their IG to pops and is a contributing factor to Momentum in Elections. Finally, combat units will regain their morale faster (or slower!) depending on the Popularity of their Commander.

Characters play an important role in Victoria 3. They rule nations, dominate internal politics, and command armies. Through their Ideologies, new and old ideas clash in the arena of government and public opinion, while their Traits will help or hinder their goals as well as yours.

And that is all for today! Next week, Martin will unveil the revisions to the trade mechanics since we last covered them.
 
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i'm not sure to understand here, yes they have bonuses , a bit like leader traits from HOI/EU4 but ... what is their purpose?
At some day someone has to explain to me how one can respectfully disagree with a question.
To answer yours, I think you have got the main idea by comparing it to EU4 leader traits. In Victoria 3 there is room for a bit more of them as you have probably more generals and admirals and more importantly, they take their armies with them if their interest groups start a revolution.
Also they aren't just the heads of state but also interest group leaders, which affects the laws said groups support/oppose and of course their overall political power by the number of pops they attract.
 

LAF1994

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People really should read the developer diary before making comments like these. They stated outright that not every character is going to have historical appearance on release.

"Some characters have a specially defined historical appearance, such as Mr Marx here or the Kaiser above. We’ll have a limited number of these on release, but we expect to continue adding more historical DNA to both characters present in the start date and characters who can emerge later in the game. "
Why would Mexican characters default to a darker-skinned appearance though? Historically, Santa Anna (and most other members of the Mexican elite) was a member of the criollo aristocracy, defined by predominantly if not entirely Spanish ancestry. Here, he has the same skin tone as the Ethiopian characters shown previously, which seems way off.
 
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1983Ben

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Welcome back! With the traditional Swedish summer vacations over, the Victoria 3 team is back to work and that means the resumption of dev diaries. Today we’re going to take a look at Characters and their various facets, including Leader Ideologies, Traits, Popularity, and more.

His Imperial and Royal Apostolic Majesty, By the Grace of God Emperor of Austria, King of Hungary and Bohemia, Dalmatia, Croatia, Slavonia, Galicia, Lodomeria and Illyria; King of Jerusalem, etc.; Archduke of Austria; Grand Duke of Tuscany and Cracow; Duke of Lorraine, Salzburg, Styria, Carintia, Carniola and Bukovina; Grand Prince of Transylvania, Margrave of Moravia; Duke of Upper and Lower Silesia, of Modena, Parma, Piacenza and Guastalla, of Auschwitz and Zator, of Teschen, Friaul, Ragusa and Zara; Princely Count of Habsburg and Tyrol, of Kyburg, Gorizia and Gradisca; Prince of Trento and Brixen; Margrave of Upper and Lower Lusatia and in Istria; Count of Hohenems, Feldkirch, Bregenz, Sonnenberg etc.;
Lord of Trieste, of Cattaro and on the Windic March; Grand Voivode of the Voivodeship of Serbia etc., etc.

View attachment 865491
Interest Group Ideologies, such as Liberal for the Intelligentsia and Jingoist for the Armed Forces, are for the most part set in stone outside of some special instances. Interest Groups represent broad class interests rather than the prevailing political zeitgeist, so we’ve taken care to ensure that their Ideologies align with those interests. The Rural Folk’s Particularist Ideology, for instance, opposes Serfdom, Debt Slavery, and Peasant Levies - and it’s difficult to imagine them changing their stance on such matters.

Market Liberals can appear after researching Stock Exchange, and may well decide that they want to shake up your tightly controlled or agrarian economy.
View attachment 865492

The Ideologies of your Interest Group Leaders, however, do represent the prevailing political zeitgeist within their own section of society. Every character comes with their own personal Ideology, determined by a wide variety of factors reflecting the material and political conditions of your nation. I’ll list a few examples of these factors:

  • Fascist leaders are more likely to emerge in countries that are paying War Reparations after losing a war.
  • Radical leaders are more likely to emerge in absolute monarchies with high turmoil in incorporated states.
  • Communist leaders are more likely to emerge in countries with large urban centers and low living standards for the lower strata.
  • Social Democrats are less likely to emerge from content Interest Groups - angry IG’s will turn towards more radical forms of socialism.
  • Theocrats are more likely to emerge when your country has the State Religion law and the Devout Interest Group is powerful.
  • Market Liberals are more likely to emerge in countries with large Urban Centers and less “modern” economic laws like Traditionalism and Mercantilism.

Mr Marx here is one of several historical figures who has been lovingly sculpted by our artists. He can show up in your country shortly after researching Socialism, and may become the Interest Group Leader for the Trade Unions.
View attachment 865493
Some characters have a specially defined historical appearance, such as Mr Marx here or the Kaiser above. We’ll have a limited number of these on release, but we expect to continue adding more historical DNA to both characters present in the start date and characters who can emerge later in the game. Likewise, many countries (especially those we expect to be popular among players) have an historical set of starting Interest Group Leaders and Commanders but not all. Once again we expect to flesh this out further as we deep-dive into particular regions post-release. Where historical characters haven’t been defined, the game will generate a character with an appropriate Ideology based on the factors described above.

A variety of historical figures can emerge as the game progresses beyond 1836. We can define everything you’d expect about a character like their religion, ethnicity, and traits, but there’s also a little more we can do here. Taking US President Abraham Lincoln as an example, we’ve set the earliest date that he can become an Interest Group leader to 1847 (when he first entered the House of Representatives, joining the national political stage). We can set both country-level and Interest Group-level triggers on when it’s appropriate for a character to emerge - Lincoln can emerge only in the USA, and he can join either the Intelligentsia or Rural Folk if they are not Marginalized. We can also determine the chance that a politician will emerge every time a suitable Interest Group selects a new leader.

Santa Anna’s political and military career is as long as it is fascinating. The day he was captured by the Texan army however was not one of his best days - should this happen in Victoria 3, Mexico will be forced to capitulate and recognize Texan independence.
View attachment 865495
Every character has one or more Roles that determine their impact on your nation. Characters can sometimes have multiple roles, for instance it is possible to Grant Command to your monarchs and dictators give them the ability to command your armed forces personally. Characters can have the following Roles:

  • Rulers. The King, the President, the Pope, the head honcho of the nation. Who rules your country is determined by your Governance Principles law.
  • Heirs. Heirs exist only in monarchies, and primarily spend their time waiting for mummy or daddy to pop off so they can have their turn on the throne.
  • Politicians. These are Interest Group Leaders, whose ideologies are a huge determining factor for the laws you can pass and the Political Movements that will emerge.
  • Commanders. Your Generals and Admirals, heroically (or not so heroically) leading your forces into battle.

A Charismatic Interest Group Leader can provide a very large boost to their IG’s Pop Attraction, which if you want to empower that IG can be a powerful advantage in realizing your ambitions. If the Charismatic leader is a member of an IG you are not so keen on however, they may become a painful thorn in your side.
View attachment 865496

Each character also has Character Traits. Traits have a variety of effects, and these effects can differ depending on the Character’s Role(s). Let’s take the Cruel Trait as an example. All Cruel characters take a very substantial hit to their Popularity (more on that in just a bit), but the other effects are applied depending on the character’s role. A Cruel commander will encourage his forces to cause more casualties to the enemy and more devastation in the course of the war. When an IG has a Cruel leader, they will gain more approval for being included in the government. Finally, a Cruel Ruler enjoys cheaper Decrees (Violent Suppression might be a favorite), but opposition IG’s will more readily disapprove of the government and all pops in the nation will have reduced standard of living. Other Traits include Ambitious, Pillager, Innovative, and of course Opium Addict.

A character’s virtues and vices may impact their Popularity - Mr Pretorius here has many fine qualities, but his relationship with cocaine has caused his otherwise stellar reputation to take a hit.
View attachment 865497
Popularity is a measure of a Character’s reputation among the people of the nation. It comes primarily from their Traits, but many Events will cause Characters to rise and fall in the arena of public opinion. Like Traits, the effects of a Character’s Popularity depends on their Role(s). For the Ruler, Popularity adds Legitimacy to their government. The Popularity of Interest Group Leaders affects the attractiveness of their IG to pops and is a contributing factor to Momentum in Elections. Finally, combat units will regain their morale faster (or slower!) depending on the Popularity of their Commander.

Characters play an important role in Victoria 3. They rule nations, dominate internal politics, and command armies. Through their Ideologies, new and old ideas clash in the arena of government and public opinion, while their Traits will help or hinder their goals as well as yours.

And that is all for today! Next week, Martin will unveil the revisions to the trade mechanics since we last covered them.
 
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Not too much a fan of having lots of historical characters popping up after the start date. Feels a bit scripted/railroady or that it can reduce replay value.
 
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Not too much a fan of having lots of historical characters popping up after the start date. Feels a bit scripted/railroady or that it can reduce replay value.
As long as the conditions around their appearance are well-designed, I have no problem with it.
 
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Can the conditions for fascist leaders be broadened a bit? The historical inspiration for your condition is obvious, but I feel it is kind of overly tailored to the German example.

For example, Italy won the Great War and still became fascist. I think you should consider adding further conditions such as unsatisfied territorial claims, irredentism, pops of your culture outside of your nation, or demands during a war being rejected/not satisfied.
 
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Character death dates are random. But in one case I added some malicious script to heavily increase the odds of a certain king Billy very early into the game.
When you say random what do you mean? Is it using a sigmoid function based around some an expected death date (by old age) or is it just an increasing chance per year of age, similar to other PDS games?
 
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Cheers for the DD Neondt, and the answers to questions from you and Wiz :) There's absolutely no question Vicky 3 has a lot of character, and no small part of this looks to come from its characters :)

For a naval-themed pic relating to characters, here's a very (The most? Would be at the ver least a strong contender) prominent admiral from the Vicky 3 time period, Alfred von Tirpitz who also had a pretty impressive beard to go with his other claims to having character :)

1659784028851.png
 
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just out of curiosity will spouses of characters and kids play also a vital role? Think about for example about prince Albert, or Jenny Marx and her daugther's. They played a huge role for the early socialist movement and were quite important that Karl Marx could do his work.
 
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As long as the conditions around their appearance are well-designed, I have no problem with it.
I get a bit obsessed with this with alt-history though - these people would literally never exist, unless they were born pre-1836. they would never have been conceived. why would they exist? they wouldn't, I find it really weird and out of place for a game like this. it reminds me of the characters in Civ games that you get as artists or prophets or whatever.
 
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I get a bit obsessed with this with alt-history though - these people would literally never exist, unless they were born pre-1836. they would never have been conceived. why would they exist? they wouldn't, I find it really weird and out of place for a game like this. it reminds me of the characters in Civ games that you get as artists or prophets or whatever.
  1. It's a little strange that you think the state has so much power over people that people just stop being born without cause. Not every single thing about your country changes just because you veered off history. If Germany is founded by Austria instead of Prussia, then there's still going to be a lot of people who meet each other, fall in love, and have children who did all the same things irl as well. Those outcomes are totally unaffected by the machinations of the nation-state.
  2. It's basically an easter egg. Karl Marx existing to found socialism isn't necessary, but socialism is going to be developed as an ideology, so why not have the person who makes it be Karl Marx, assuming it's developed from where he was? I don't understand what you think is being actually given up by having this? The impact of this change is so small that just let it be a fun little thing?
 
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Cheers for the DD Neondt, and the answers to questions from you and Wiz :) There's absolutely no question Vicky 3 has a lot of character, and no small part of this looks to come from its characters :)

For a naval-themed pic relating to characters, here's a very (The most? Would be at the very least a strong contender) prominent admiral from the Vicky 3 time period, Alfred von Tirpitz who also had a pretty impressive beard to go with his other claims to having character :)

View attachment 866156
I'm surprised you didn't lobby for the scripted appearance of Alred Mahan and a subsequently increased chance for a naval arms race among the great powers.
 
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  1. It's a little strange that you think the state has so much power over people that people just stop being born without cause. Not every single thing about your country changes just because you veered off history. If Germany is founded by Austria instead of Prussia, then there's still going to be a lot of people who meet each other, fall in love, and have children who did all the same things irl as well. Those outcomes are totally unaffected by the machinations of the nation-state.
  2. It's basically an easter egg. Karl Marx existing to found socialism isn't necessary, but socialism is going to be developed as an ideology, so why not have the person who makes it be Karl Marx, assuming it's developed from where he was? I don't understand what you think is being actually given up by having this? The impact of this change is so small that just let it be a fun little thing?
I think the most likely way for certain people to not be born in the period is preventing urbanization. If your country doesn't urbanize as much then there are decent odds that a certain character's parents never met because they continued to live in two seperate, distant villages. Generally speaking I agree though, just entertaining the thought.
 
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Not too much a fan of having lots of historical characters popping up after the start date. Feels a bit scripted/railroady or that it can reduce replay value.
They have a chance of not popping up. It's not guaranteed. Which makes sense. Even in an alternate history, there should be a chance of historical convergences happening if the circumstances fit them.
 
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  1. It's a little strange that you think the state has so much power over people that people just stop being born without cause. Not every single thing about your country changes just because you veered off history. If Germany is founded by Austria instead of Prussia, then there's still going to be a lot of people who meet each other, fall in love, and have children who did all the same things irl as well. Those outcomes are totally unaffected by the machinations of the nation-state.
  2. It's basically an easter egg. Karl Marx existing to found socialism isn't necessary, but socialism is going to be developed as an ideology, so why not have the person who makes it be Karl Marx, assuming it's developed from where he was? I don't understand what you think is being actually given up by having this? The impact of this change is so small that just let it be a fun little thing?
if your parents decided to have a kid even a minute later than they did you would never have been born in all probability. put that off by a day, two days etc. you're never born, it doesn't make any sense to have a game where we decide marx could have been born the exact same person a day or a year later somehow

maybe it's an "easter egg" but 1. I don't like it as an easter egg and 2. I can already see people trying to collect historical figures to have them lead movements or provide some kind of bonus. I don't like it
 
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I think the most likely way for certain people to not be born in the period is preventing urbanization. If your country doesn't urbanize as much then there are decent odds that a certain character's parents never met because they continued to live in two seperate, distant villages. Generally speaking I agree though, just entertaining the thought.
People overestimate that. Even in England in the time of Shakespeare, almost every person moved at least once in their life, typically when they got married and started a new household (almost like people haven't changed that much). Now generally, it wasn't that far, but this is still hundreds of years after that.

(Still, any changes to the timeline that directly impact the characters' parents such that they're not, ahem, together on one particular occasion will result in that person not being born, but it would be less fun to have a 19th-century game with no recognizable historical characters!)
 
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People overestimate that. Even in England in the time of Shakespeare, almost every person moved at least once in their life, typically when they got married and started a new household (almost like people haven't changed that much). Now generally, it wasn't that far, but this is still hundreds of years after that.

(Still, any changes to the timeline that directly impact the characters' parents such that they're not, ahem, together on one particular occasion will result in that person not being born, but it would be less fun to have a 19th-century game with no recognizable historical characters!)
it may not be fun to have none, but I don't want a bunch of historical figures running around. not only is it nonsensical from a purely logical standpoint as you say, but also it limits the potential for randomization and generating new "stories" each playthrough. I don't always want Marx to be the leader of global socialism, though he's the least egregious offender since he was already alive in 1836. I don't always want Lincoln appearing, I don't always want Bismarck, etc.

It's just boring and weird to me. Like I said, it resembles Civ more than anything else, and I don't want that in this game
 
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Yes, Santa Anna is an example of one.
But, is he??

According to the dev diary, he is a ruler so he can be turned into a general, as most rulers. But my question is the opposite of that. Can a character that starts as a general become a Ruler??? Like, if he leads a military coup.
 
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I'm surprised you didn't lobby for the scripted appearance of Alred Mahan and a subsequently increased chance for a naval arms race among the great powers.

I most definitely wouldn't argue against the first :) I'm not sure if Mahan was the cause of the big naval arms race of the day though - France and Britain competed for ironclads in the 1860s without Mahan being a factor, and in Britain Corbett (who should probably get a scripted nod if Mahan does) was more influential. More broadly, though, some kind of way of encouraging a naval arms race would be cool :)