Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #50 - Living Map

[Testeria]

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Hello again everyone! This week, as promised, I’ll be showing you a lot more of the visual elements of the map and how it evolves over the course of time and through your influence.

Will we be able to switch off "live map" and stay at a political map (or another useful map type) at any zoom level? I have partial color blindness and some vision impairment and the way it was done in CK3 makes the game very hard to play for me.

I understand pretty visuals are fun but this is a strategy game after all and graphical fireworks should be optional if they hinder gameplay?

Thanks for understanding.

 

[Declan Murphy]

I love all of these little details, stuff like this is what really makes a strategy game for me; seeing the tangible, visible effects of what's going on beneath the surface. It's so much more compelling than it just being a bunch of abstract numbers, making your decisions have a physical effect on what you see before you is what makes it immersive. In my opinion the more stuff like this the better.

I would prefer if there were options to turn off specific effects if we didn't want them though, I thinking in particular about the standard of living effects.

 

[safe-keeper]

Beautiful.

(edit to add: agree with the people asking for graphics settings, though, I know elaborate 3D maps are the future and I'm all for it, but some of us have low-spec computers and the PDX games have always been within reach for us thanks to the simplistic graphics)

 

[Svenska Super]

Beautiful.

(edit to add: agree with the people asking for graphics settings, though, I know elaborate 3D maps are the future and I'm all for it, but some of us have low-spec computers and the PDX games have always been within reach for us thanks to the simplistic graphics)

It should be able to run well in medium shaved off performance (shadow dims) at an older i5 model gtx 660ish bit upward gpu forc 8ram

 

[FryFroFella]

Saw the DD topic and expected it to be filler but this is actually great, the living map looks much better than I expected. Still concerned about these kinds of extensive visuals and animation being done at the expense of dev time that could be spent on depth of gameplay, which seems like a general trend for paradox, but as long as the game itself is fun and engaging, these visuals will be really really nice.

 

[VarixMS]

I'm a huge fan of the new interactive world, but a hammer to upgrade buildings looks a bit meh, I would prefer actual builders like in Cities Skylines.

 

[luxfelix]

I'm a huge fan of the new interactive world, but a hammer to upgrade buildings looks a bit meh, I would prefer actual builders like in Cities Skylines.

Y'know, a Cities Skylines game set during the time of the turn of the last century would be pretty snazzy~

 

[IndigoRage]

Still concerned about these kinds of extensive visuals and animation being done at the expense of dev time that could be spent on depth of gameplay, which seems like a general trend for paradox

If there can be said to be a tradeoff, it's not one of time. Programmers and artists are different parts of the dev team. If there was a tradeoff made at any point it was on the part of the person writing up the budget and deciding the team composition.

 

[Imp0815]

I really like this, but i hoped for more effects on the military side. The hands-off approach needs a counter wight and it should be presentation.
Where little Tin-solider placeholders pitched and tested during the design period?

On the other hand, while detailed animated ridged bodys are for sure heavy on the performance and hard to fit the scale, but would it not be possible to do some trickery with modeled objects that are a whole line formation then scaled down and the shots are just "animated". So a front line would have these on each side and fire at each other while a battle is taking place? Later on you could replace the formations with Trenches where, just like the bunkers you already have, gun fire is "animated".
I really wish for Line formations and Battles are more visually represented on the map.

EDIT: What about 2.5D Isomeric sprites? Or 2D sprites for the battle animations to keep it light on the performance side?

 

[Ustinov]

View attachment 850292
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Hello again everyone! This week, as promised, I’ll be showing you a lot more of the visual elements of the map and how it evolves over the course of time and through your influence.

The Living Map has many different elements to it that adds both a bit of flavor and life in the world of Victoria 3, I’ll be going over some of the main elements in their current state to give you all some insight.

Hub Expansion
The most important and noticeable aspect that the world is progressing are your Hubs, as you reach certain thresholds of buildings (both production, government and residential ones) your cities will expand with the corresponding buildings. When it comes to the residential buildings they all have three different tiers of wealth within each culture set, the higher tiers are automatically activated upon reaching a higher Standard Of Living for the Pops of that Hub. To further amplify this change of SOL and to provide some more motion around hubs we have an effect that indicates either an increase or decrease with a construction hammer and anvil that either hardens or breaks.

Small Hubs
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Large Hubs
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Decrease in SOL
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Increase in SOL
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Vehicles
Traversing the roads, seas and even skies of the game we have made quite a few vehicles that breathe life into the world. These are unlocked by research, adjusting your Production Methods and building specific buildings. The most fundamental one being a horse carriage that traverses the dirt roads of connected Hubs, with specific research you can instead have cars putter along the roads! If regular roads are too simple for you there are also a bunch of different trains for when you’ve researched railroads, old locomotives can turn into electric ones and steel railway cars can also be applied.

We’ll get there, eventually
View attachment 850314

Traveling in style
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Old locomotive
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Electric trains
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But land is not the only place where vehicles make an appearance, in the seas and along the shipping lanes you’ll be able to see cargo ships traveling! These range from simple clippers to steamships, depending on what you’ve researched and what sort of Production Methods you’re utilizing.

Trade ships
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Last but not least we look to the skies where you’ll be able to see Zeppelins soaring through the air when skyscrapers have been built and act as anchoring points for the massive airships.

Soaring through the skies
View attachment 850328
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Military and War
When conflict inevitably brews and wars break out there are lots of ways we show those effects on your Hubs and surrounding terrain. When gearing up for war your troops will be determined by what you’ve researched and the Production Methods of your Barracks. You can look at what troops you have in your Garrison at any time, but upon entering a battle they (the most advanced unit) will be visible on the map where battle takes place, facing off against the opponents troops. Depending on what weapons you’ve equipped your units with, different effects will show, so even a Mobile Artillery unit has different kinds of shots.

Beautiful illustrations for your troops
View attachment 850329

Bunker fire
View attachment 850330

Flamethrowers!
View attachment 850331

Let's play battleship!
View attachment 850332
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When a region has been ravaged by war and a lot of battles you will start to see the effect of that on the region where it has happened through Devastation. The dynamic Devastation affects a variety of parameters for the region, its trade, Pops and Hubs. It also visually shows, not just by tearing up the surrounding terrain but also muddles rivers and burns buildings, the extent of this increases the more battles are fought in the same region.

Devastation (sped up)
View attachment 850337

Devastation at a Hub
View attachment 850338
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Also, if you really need additional troops you can activate your conscription centers (if you’ve got access to them) which forces a lot of people to sign up. We make sure to show this as well, through an effect on your Hubs where conscripts are being drafted.

Production and Pops
In addition to expanding your city Hubs, you’ll also be able to affect the world with mining, farming and forestry Hubs. Trees will be cut down in close proximity to your forestry Hubs, farms will cultivate the earth and ground will be excavated close to your mines, leaving visible impact on the terrain.

Forestry Hubs and their effect
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Farm Hubs and their growth
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Mining Hubs effect on the world
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With increased production and industrialization within your country and Hubs we are also giving you a purely visual reminder that the world will be affected by that as well. The visual Pollution will see more smokestacks rising from your hubs as well as the surrounding terrain becoming tarnished. All for the sake of progress right?

Smokestacks coming from a Hub
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Pollution affecting a larger area
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However, if your people don't like the way things are progressing they will show their displeasure through turmoil, and if you don’t correctly address their concerns you might find yourself with a revolution on your hands. Turmoil will just be a bit of anger brewing in the form of puffs of displeasure while revolution will have flags of opposition being raised in your hubs.

Let the flags of revolution rise!
View attachment 850350
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Buildings
As previously mentioned, you’ll get zeppelins traversing the skies upon building skyscrapers, and while these behemoths of buildings will tower over the rest in your city Hubs there are still Monuments like the Eiffel Tower that will be even stronger indicators that your cities are growing beyond the point of the regular buildings.

The different skyscrapers for each culture set
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They also blink!
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That should give you all a glimpse into the life of the world map! There are things we would love to explore more in the future but I feel we’ve got a great foundation going that we’d love to hear ideas on how to take further.

Join us next week, where Aron will be covering the tutorial!

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[Ustinov]

What is this?? A new Civilization? Where is the circular structure of Parliament? And the changes in the Upper House??

 

[Morrowind3]

I really like this, but i hoped for more effects on the military side. The hands-off approach needs a counter wight and it should be presentation.
Where little Tin-solider placeholders pitched and tested during the design period?

On the other hand, while detailed animated ridged bodys are for sure heavy on the performance and hard to fit the scale, but would it not be possible to do some trickery with modeled objects that are a whole line formation then scaled down and the shots are just "animated". So a front line would have these on each side and fire at each other while a battle is taking place? Later on you could replace the formations with Trenches where, just like the bunkers you already have, gun fire is "animated".
I really wish for Line formations and Battles are more visually represented on the map.

EDIT: What about 2.5D Isomeric sprites? Or 2D sprites for the battle animations to keep it light on the performance side?

It'd look very weird to have battle lines of wooden soldiers with only the gun animated tbh. I don't think it'd be a visual improvement at all if it's done like that. It'd stick out like a sore thumb compared to everything else.

Not sure what makes animating characters more difficult in Vicky 3 than in all the other games, otherwise what I'd do is implement the soldiers as a flyweight that all use the exact same animation, but desynchronised so they look more natural (It's how the old total war games do it, i'm guessing).
Ofcourse, if the CPU is the bottleneck, flyweights might only make the performance worse.

 

[Imp0815]

It'd look very weird to have battle lines of wooden soldiers with only the gun animated tbh. I don't think it'd be a visual improvement at all if it's done like that. It'd stick out like a sore thumb compared to everything else.

Not sure what makes animating characters more difficult in Vicky 3 than in all the other games, otherwise what I'd do is implement the soldiers as a flyweight that all use the exact same animation, but desynchronised so they look more natural (It's how the old total war games do it, i'm guessing).
Ofcourse, if the CPU is the bottleneck, flyweights might only make the performance worse.

I basically thinking about something along these lines:

Bunker fire

Flamethrowers!

But much wider and with colorful battle lines like this:

PS: This is a really good example because you cant make out any individual soldiers but you instantly know whats going on here and its all done in 2.5d. Also its from COSSACKS 2: BATTLE FOR EUROPE!

PPS: I also think they already use 2D sprites for the battle animations.

PPPS: READY - AIM - FIRE

 

[IndigoRage]

I basically thinking about something along these lines:

Bunker fire

Flamethrowers!

But much wider and with colorful battle lines like this:
View attachment 852036

PS: This is a really good example because you cant make out any individual soldiers but you instantly know whats going on here and its all done in 2.5d. Also its from COSSACKS 2: BATTLE FOR EUROPE!

PPS: I also think they already use 2D sprites for the battle animations.

Yeah, I would much prefer battle lines to only being able to see structures firing. Though this isn't relevant to every point in the game of course. I just wish we could see glorious 3D models of period-appropriate units. I understand the limitation, but I'd just like em somewhere, y'know? I'm a units guy.

 

[Nawolith]

I basically thinking about something along these lines:

Bunker fire

Flamethrowers!

But much wider and with colorful battle lines like this:
View attachment 852036

PS: This is a really good example because you cant make out any individual soldiers but you instantly know whats going on here and its all done in 2.5d. Also its from COSSACKS 2: BATTLE FOR EUROPE!

PPS: I also think they already use 2D sprites for the battle animations.

PPPS: READY - AIM - FIRE
View attachment 852108

Yes please!

 

[JamesJameson]

Please allow us to turn this stuff off!

 

[osvaldopiazzolla]

I agree that the beautifulness and sophistication might come as a cost for low-end computers . I am unsure about the argument thta it's less demanding than the core simùulation engine itself : maps are about GPUs and calculations are about CPUs , aren't tney ? (or do calcualtions acually GPUs for calculating tasks ? it could be)

But I do believe that there is something more than cosmetic at stake : It is a real attempt at transforming the mediality of the interface to something else than a spreadsheet simulator.

Don't misunderstand me : spreadsheet simulators are fine (I've been playing Championship Manager from day one) and Victoria 3 promises to be a wonder of the genre, but they are trying to make it live a life of its own, one that you can watch on a map.

The interface is not simply augmented : it offers other affordances. And that is a helluva good idea to escape the "spreadsheet simulator" accusation.

 

[Spearton95]

I must say, this is really nice. I would have happiliy killed someone for something like that when I was 14 and I discovered Paradox games, it's amazing how far grand strategy has come since then. I never considered graphics important, well now they are. I love the idea of understanding what's going nwithout having to click on anything. Awesome.

I have a couple questions:
- how this system will handle cities with mixed cultures?
- why are SoL represented with a gif, instead of a change in quality of the building themselves?

 

[Morrowind3]

I agree that the beautifulness and sophistication might come as a cost for low-end computers . I am unsure about the argument thta it's less demanding than the core simùulation engine itself : maps are about GPUs and calculations are about CPUs , aren't tney ? (or do calcualtions acually GPUs for calculating tasks ? it could be).

They are seperate (For the most part, some CPU still comes into play for graphics to determine what actually needs to be drawn. Polygons or animation, for example, are more straining on your CPU than your GPU)

However, the fact they are seperate is exactly the reason why there's no point in optimizing graphics. It means the CPU bottlenecks the performance. If the performance is capped by the CPU, then making the GPU's job easier isn't going to make it any faster than that cap allows.

 

[osvaldopiazzolla]

Thanks for the reply....

They are seperate (For the most part, some CPU still comes into play for graphics to determine what actually needs to be drawn. Polygons or animation, for example, are more straining on your CPU than your GPU)

However, the fact they are seperate is exactly the reason why there's no point in optimizing graphics. It means the CPU bottlenecks the performance. If the performance is capped by the CPU, then making the GPU's job easier isn't going to make it any faster than that cap allows.

Thank you for the reply. Again, I am not a specialist so I might say noob things here, but a lot of personal computers (desktops or laptops) on the market are on the high end on CPUs and low end on GPUs (typically everything newish that is not a "gamer" PC) so could not it be a worry for such computers ?
Also, I am taking advantage of this topic to ask again (sorry if I am flooding here) : Isn't graphics issues the kind of problem that might depend on operating systems and does it lower the probability of having a Linux version of Vicky 3 ?