• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #39 - Shipping Lanes

16_9.jpg

Ave and welcome to another Dev Diary! I am Johan (No, the other Johan) a tech lead on Victoria 3 and today I will be talking about Shipping Lanes. It is an interesting addition to maritime empires in that there is now a cost to overseas possessions and sending a military expedition halfway across the globe is no longer as straightforward as in some older Paradox titles.

But first we have to talk about Convoys which are an essential part in maintaining shipping lanes. They are produced from Ports, a government building which requires Clippers (or their era-equivalents) and possibly other goods.

Each country has a set number of required convoys and not having enough will incur penalties on all shipping lanes. This may for example occur due to an overstretched colonial empire or hostile convoy raiders.

Ports also fulfill an important role in connecting your overseas territories but more on that later.

“Aha! I told you the Clipper factory was a good investment!”
DD39 01.png

Shipping Lanes represents port-to-port connections and are established for three different reasons:
  • Trade Routes to an overseas market
  • Supply Routes for an overseas General
  • Port Connections to link states in a market

Each shipping lane must have its own origin and destination port. Once established it will span across a number of sea nodes and have its own individual cost in convoys which adds up to the country’s total convoy requirement.

It also tracks its own Effectiveness score which is based on the overall Supply Network strength (more on that later) and may be reduced by any local convoy damage done along the route.

While India provides Great Britain numerous benefits such as raw materials and population it is clear that the Crown Jewel of the British Empire is by no means cheap. A massive civilian and military naval industry is required to maintain it and keep it safe and thus it is by no means obvious whether such overseas possessions are always worth it.
Note that UI and values are very much WIP.

DD39 02.png

Trade Routes between two markets which do not share a common land border must be done overseas and will necessitate a shipping lane. Land adjacency is determined from where the two market capitals are located.

The convoy cost is influenced by the number of sea nodes, quantity of goods and any goods-specific modifier (if any). The effectiveness affects the trade route competitiveness and by extension the quantity of goods shipped.
It will use the two closest ports in the respective market capitals region. If either country lacks ports no overseas trade routes can be established.

Supply Routes are required when a general is sent to a front that is not reachable by land. It will use a friendly port connected by land to the generals headquarters and trace to the closest friendly port reachable from the front.
The convoy cost is based on the number of sea nodes, battalions supplied and any general traits. Low effectiveness reduces supply status of the general and his troops. If a front is landlocked no generals can be sent there.

Supplying troops over great distances is quite an enterprise. Rather than sending an expeditionary force from England all the way around the Cape to reach India perhaps Britain should consider building a standing army using either colonial settlers or locals?
DD39 03 v2.png

Lastly, Port Connections are a bit more complicated. In order for a state to access the goods within the market it needs to be able to trace a path back to the market capital. If this path requires it to go via the sea (meaning it is overseas) a shipping lane must be established to the market capital.
This must be done for every state within the market including foreign ones. Rather than a single state having its own shipping lane a group of adjacent overseas states can form a cluster with a single exit port to the market capital - such as Bombay in the case of British India.

This assumes such a port exists however. If the connection is severed from either end then the overseas states cannot access the market and thus forms its own isolated enclave. Likewise if the shipping lane effectiveness is strained it will lower the accessibility of goods to and from the overseas states. Reflect back on previous dev diaries and consider the cascading consequences that were to occur if a maritime empire reliant on its overseas possessions were to suddenly lose control of its shipping lanes.

It is the market owner which must establish and pay for the port connections to all overseas market states. To somewhat compensate for this its subjects must share a portion of their convoys with their overlord. Subjects are still required to pay for their own trade and supply routes however.

The convoy cost of a port connection is influenced by the number of sea nodes and the overseas infrastructure usage. By extracting your raw materials from overseas colonial plantations and mines, while the high-Infrastructure manufacturing industries producing finished goods are located near the market capital, you can keep your Port Connection cost down - though at the expense of the development and wealth of your colonies.

Connecting India to the British market means it has to go all the way around the Cape to reach the British Isles which significantly impacts costs. But what if Britain somehow managed to discover a shortcut?
DD39 04.png

And lastly when combining all the shipping lanes of a country we get its overall Supply Network. As outlined early on we derive its Strength score from the costs of all individual shipping lanes compared to the country's total supply.

That is all for today! Hope you enjoyed this dev diary and in the words of Admiral John Fischer you may sleep easy in your beds. In next week's Dev Diary, Daniel will be back to tell us about how the Opium Wars are represented in the game.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • 169Like
  • 50Love
  • 16
  • 14
  • 4
Reactions:
How would a country like The Netherlands work with this? Historically and to this day lots of good from the Ruhr were transported via Rotterdam. Would you have to have a trade agreement with Germany and then sell it on? Or could they be the middleman with another mechanic? Earning money from the trade that flows through them, not from what they produce or manufacture themselves.
 
  • 10Like
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:
This assumes such a port exists however. If the connection is severed from either end then the overseas states cannot access the market and thus forms its own isolated enclave.
Does this isolated enclave function as a market? Or would blockading Britain mean that goods can't be shipped from Toronto to Montreal?

In next week's Dev Diary, Daniel will be back to tell us about how the Opium Wars are represented in the game.
I'll try not to panic prematurely, but as an avowed opponent of railroading I find the prospect of bespoke mechanics for specific incidents to be rather ominous.
 
  • 19
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Do migrating pops require any infrastructure or convoys, or do they just teleport?
"Beam me up, Scotty" has a completely different meaning in the Victoria age. :D

In other news, the teleportation accident rate for English people is 10,405% higher than for Scottish people. Her Majesty's government suspects the nefarious influence of neo-Jacobites at work here.
 
Last edited:
  • 5Haha
  • 1
Reactions:
Simple enough to easily understand what is or isn't working, but complex enough to simulate a variety of scenarios. Very nice.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
"Convoys" are not to be thought of as goods as such and cannot be traded; they represent the ability to move things overseas, including the ship, crew, dockworkers, etc. Ports consume ships (Clippers or Steamers) and turn them into convoys. You can trade Clippers and Steamers with other markets, but you have to turn them into convoys through ports yourself - you cannot outsource your shipping lanes to another country (that would be best thought of as waiting for another country to export their goods to / import your goods from your market).

Regarding ports being government owned with no option to privatize them like railways, we agree that's a bit suboptimal - having Port-based trading companies make big bucks selling goods transport to Trade Centers who make clever decisions whether it's cheap enough to buy them given the profit of the routes they manage etc sounds really neat, but also one step too far in complexity at the moment. Your supply network is crucial for your ability to operate an intercontinental empire, and seeing your overseas expeditionary forces go undersupplied because some Pops on the other side of the world decided to switch to coffee instead of tea, bringing the profit of trade centers and thereby ports down below the point where they can offer competitive wages with your Steel Mills... well, it sounds cool, but is not a UX challenge we want to try to tackle at this time.
 
  • 61
  • 17
  • 12Like
  • 2Haha
Reactions:
"Convoys" are not to be thought of as goods as such and cannot be traded; they represent the ability to move things overseas, including the ship, crew, dockworkers, etc. Ports consume ships (Clippers or Steamers) and turn them into convoys. You can trade Clippers and Steamers with other markets, but you have to turn them into convoys through ports yourself - you cannot outsource your shipping lanes to another country (that would be best thought of as waiting for another country to export their goods to / import your goods from your market).
Thanks for the response,so to clarify,is there a delay to produce convoys?If it's the case,this means that if you can't have enough clippers or Steamers,you can have an unavoidable shortage of convoys if you don't plan on long term.I really hope so.It would be great.Can you confirm it's the case?
Thanks for any replies about this.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
1. What are the options to reduce convey usage? Are there different techs or Production Methods that reduce the required number of Conveys per any set amount of traded goods on a route, aside from Canals?

2. What happens economically to the isolated enclaves that lose all access to the home market/market capital? How is mass starvation avoided?

3. Does the number of conveys scale purely on distance and amount of goods traded? Or does the type of good also affect how many conveys are needed? An example would be that more conveys are needed to trade something bulky like 1000 units of Steel vs 1000 units of Silk.
1. Currently, new Production Methods will increase the amount of convoys rather than reduce the number used. Generals can have traits which lowers their convoy usage.

2. They have to rely on locally produced goods and prices, which can be quite disastrious indeed.

3. The goods type can change convoy cost, yes.

I'm ever so slightly confused. The summary above the picture of trade routes doesn't seem to have anything to do with the picture?
The picture was taken after the DD was written and unfortunately missed the England -> India port connection; but the point was to show how hugely expensive India is to maintain compared to everything else :)
 
  • 31
  • 8Like
  • 2
  • 1Love
Reactions:
Looks great! Really a big improvement over vic2's logistic system... one that doesn't even exist :p

Based on the dev diary I have two questions because two things are not entirely clear to me:
  • What happens what a country in a customs union (partially) loses its connection to the market capital? Lets take Canada as an example. What happens if the connection to London is severed? Does 'forming an enclave' mean that every state becomes isolated or that Canada functionally leaves the British market to form its own market? What happens if the connection only is partially disrupted?
  • Do all subjects have to share convoys with the senior member of the market, or only if they're overseas? If the first is the case, wouldn't Prussia have an overflow of convoys, while Britain would be at a relative disadvantage?
Other than that, great dev diary. Really cool stuff and completely clear to me.
 
  • 3
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
1. Currently, new Production Methods will increase the amount of convoys rather than reduce the number used. Generals can have traits which lowers their convoy usage.
Can you mod a production method to reduce amounts of convoys required for a specific good or in the case of batallions for war,or it is not possible?
Thanks for any replies about this.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Can you elaborate a bit how overland trade works? Am I right to assume that’s it essentially free in terms of transportation and doesn’t tax your infrastructure in any way? Is it the same for overland supply routes?
Also, it seems a bit counterintuitive that building processing industries in colonies would add to the strain of your shipping. Like, if UK builds textile mills in India to serve local demand instead of bringing cotton all the way to England and then bringing back the fabric, I’d expect their convoy usage goes down, not up
 
  • 3Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Ave and welcome to another Dev Diary! I am Johan (No, the other Johan) a tech lead on Victoria 3 and today I will be talking about Shipping Lanes. It is an interesting addition to maritime empires in that there is now a cost to overseas possessions and sending a military expedition halfway across the globe is no longer as straightforward as in some older Paradox titles.

But first we have to talk about Convoys which are an essential part in maintaining shipping lanes. They are produced from Ports, a government building which requires Clippers (or their era-equivalents) and possibly other goods.

Each country has a set number of required convoys and not having enough will incur penalties on all shipping lanes. This may for example occur due to an overstretched colonial empire or hostile convoy raiders.

Ports also fulfill an important role in connecting your overseas territories but more on that later.

“Aha! I told you the Clipper factory was a good investment!”
View attachment 821891
Shipping Lanes represents port-to-port connections and are established for three different reasons:
  • Trade Routes to an overseas market
  • Supply Routes for an overseas General
  • Port Connections to link states in a market

Each shipping lane must have its own origin and destination port. Once established it will span across a number of sea nodes and have its own individual cost in convoys which adds up to the country’s total convoy requirement.

It also tracks its own Effectiveness score which is based on the overall Supply Network strength (more on that later) and may be reduced by any local convoy damage done along the route.

While India provides Great Britain numerous benefits such as raw materials and population it is clear that the Crown Jewel of the British Empire is by no means cheap. A massive civilian and military naval industry is required to maintain it and keep it safe and thus it is by no means obvious whether such overseas possessions are always worth it.
Note that UI and values are very much WIP.

View attachment 822309

Trade Routes between two markets which do not share a common land border must be done overseas and will necessitate a shipping lane. Land adjacency is determined from where the two market capitals are located.

The convoy cost is influenced by the number of sea nodes, quantity of goods and any goods-specific modifier (if any). The effectiveness affects the trade route competitiveness and by extension the quantity of goods shipped.
It will use the two closest ports in the respective market capitals region. If either country lacks ports no overseas trade routes can be established.

Supply Routes are required when a general is sent to a front that is not reachable by land. It will use a friendly port connected by land to the generals headquarters and trace to the closest friendly port reachable from the front.
The convoy cost is based on the number of sea nodes, battalions supplied and any general traits. Low effectiveness reduces supply status of the general and his troops. If a front is landlocked no generals can be sent there.

Supplying troops over great distances is quite an enterprise. Rather than sending an expeditionary force from England all the way around the Cape to reach India perhaps Britain should consider building a standing army using either colonial settlers or locals?
View attachment 822274
Lastly, Port Connections are a bit more complicated. In order for a state to access the goods within the market it needs to be able to trace a path back to the market capital. If this path requires it to go via the sea (meaning it is overseas) a shipping lane must be established to the market capital.
This must be done for every state within the market including foreign ones. Rather than a single state having its own shipping lane a group of adjacent overseas states can form a cluster with a single exit port to the market capital - such as Bombay in the case of British India.

This assumes such a port exists however. If the connection is severed from either end then the overseas states cannot access the market and thus forms its own isolated enclave. Likewise if the shipping lane effectiveness is strained it will lower the accessibility of goods to and from the overseas states. Reflect back on previous dev diaries and consider the cascading consequences that were to occur if a maritime empire reliant on its overseas possessions were to suddenly lose control of its shipping lanes.

It is the market owner which must establish and pay for the port connections to all overseas market states. To somewhat compensate for this its subjects must share a portion of their convoys with their overlord. Subjects are still required to pay for their own trade and supply routes however.

The convoy cost of a port connection is influenced by the number of sea nodes and the overseas infrastructure usage. By extracting your raw materials from overseas colonial plantations and mines, while the high-Infrastructure manufacturing industries producing finished goods are located near the market capital, you can keep your Port Connection cost down - though at the expense of the development and wealth of your colonies.

Connecting India to the British market means it has to go all the way around the Cape to reach the British Isles which significantly impacts costs. But what if Britain somehow managed to discover a shortcut?
View attachment 821894
And lastly when combining all the shipping lanes of a country we get its overall Supply Network. As outlined early on we derive its Strength score from the costs of all individual shipping lanes compared to the country's total supply.

That is all for today! Hope you enjoyed this dev diary and in the words of Admiral John Fischer you may sleep easy in your beds. In next week's Dev Diary, Daniel will be back to tell us about how the Opium Wars are represented in the game.

I do not see any income which the building receives. Does that mean this means government pays all imports? So when a trade occurs, a trade depot pops up which can be privately owned, but the transport requires state-owned logistics that are free/ tax paid? I do not get the logic here.

Can we mod it, so that shipping is privately owned?
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
Great dev diary, although I can't wait to see how it works in combination with other aspects of gameplay (mostly naval warfare....).

Two questions:
  1. You said that you can't send troops by sea to landlocked fronts. But say GB needs to send your army to quell a colonial rebellion in Niger, and Nigeria has a "friendly port". The frontline will be landlocked, but how can British troop even reach it if not by sea?
  2. How do ports work to establish market access between places that are also connected by land? Say that my sulfur from Sicily needs reach Naples where the explosive factory is located. Appennines in Sicily and Calabria make it hard to develop "land" infrastructure (I am here positing that the Messina Strait is considered as a "land" connection) - but sending them by sea would make much more sense, at least until the railway infrastructure is developed enough*. How would road, railway and port infrastructure combine in determining the market access?
* spoiler alert - it is still not very developed even as of today
 
  • 4
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
1. Currently, new Production Methods will increase the amount of convoys rather than reduce the number used. Generals can have traits which lowers their convoy usage.
So a level 5 shipyard that produces steamships could provide, say, 4000 convoys instead of 1000 for the same one producing clippers?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
So a level 5 shipyard that produces steamships could provide, say, 4000 convoys instead of 1000 for the same one producing clippers?
It is a bit backwards here. The level 5 shipyard will make more clippers or steamships. It is the port that is making the conveys and I assume based on Johan's answer that the level X port will make more conveys when steamships are consumed instead of clippers.
 
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:
So a level 5 shipyard that produces steamships could provide, say, 4000 convoys instead of 1000 for the same one producing clippers?

The Shipyard produces steamships or clippers, the Port consumes steamships or clippers. depending on production method. A Port consuming steamships will produce more convoys per level/employee
 
  • 3
  • 3
Reactions:
"Convoys" are not to be thought of as goods as such and cannot be traded; they represent the ability to move things overseas, including the ship, crew, dockworkers, etc. Ports consume ships (Clippers or Steamers) and turn them into convoys. You can trade Clippers and Steamers with other markets, but you have to turn them into convoys through ports yourself - you cannot outsource your shipping lanes to another country (that would be best thought of as waiting for another country to export their goods to / import your goods from your market).

Regarding ports being government owned with no option to privatize them like railways, we agree that's a bit suboptimal - having Port-based trading companies make big bucks selling goods transport to Trade Centers who make clever decisions whether it's cheap enough to buy them given the profit of the routes they manage etc sounds really neat, but also one step too far in complexity at the moment. Your supply network is crucial for your ability to operate an intercontinental empire, and seeing your overseas expeditionary forces go undersupplied because some Pops on the other side of the world decided to switch to coffee instead of tea, bringing the profit of trade centers and thereby ports down below the point where they can offer competitive wages with your Steel Mills... well, it sounds cool, but is not a UX challenge we want to try to tackle at this time.

If ports were auto-subsidized to be fully staffed if profits fall too low, such an event will not happen and you can still make them privately owned and make them charge a price for the transport.

Both Construction and ports being state-owned are really immersion-breaking issues. But construction companies do at least receive an income. Shipping is free!

Question: Can we mod it, so that Ports and Construction are privately owned and auto-subsidized to ensure full employment even with low prices/demand?
 
  • 2
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions: