• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #34 - Canals & Monuments

16_9.jpg

Good evening and welcome to this week’s Victoria 3 development diary! Today’s topic is Canals & Monuments, unique buildings with special inputs, outputs, and effects.

The Vatican City is the seat of the Catholic Church and a great asset to the Papal States in Victoria 3. As Europe developed and industrialized, the power of religious authority in national politics declined steeply but never lost its relevance. Can you change the course of history and renew the temporal power of the Pope?
DD34 01.png

Monuments are unique buildings only available in specific states, each with its own 3D model on the map. They make use of some of the more interesting aspects of the production methods system; just as buildings can output Goods, they can also output both national and local modifiers, Capacities, and effects on the pops working there. The Vatican City for instance outputs the Influence capacity as well as greatly increasing the political strength of the Devout Interest Group. Meanwhile the White House adds a multiplier to your national Bureaucracy output as well as increasing the amount of political strength Pops gain from votes. Not all Monuments are present at the start date. Some, like the Eiffel Tower, must be constructed, and Monuments are significantly more costly and time-consuming to construct than standard buildings. Monuments are subsidized by government funding, so if you decide that a Monument is unaffordable or that you aren’t interested in its effects (for instance if you as communist Italy no longer want to Church to wield so much power) you can simply defund them. On release we intend to have eleven different Monuments in total.

The Panama Canal links the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. Finally completed in 1914 after decades of planning and construction, ships no longer had to take the long and treacherous route around South America to travel between the East and West. Yes, we can see the trees and houses in the Canal - we’ll fix it!
DD34 02.png

Like Monuments, Canals are unique buildings with a special set of inputs and outputs. But the true allure of constructing a Canal is that it allows you to create new connections between sea nodes, allowing ships to travel through the isthmuses of Panama and Suez. This significantly reduces the Convoy costs for trading and supplying armies across vast ocean distances, as well as your vulnerability to unscrupulous rivals trying to disrupt your supply lines.

We use the Journal Entry system to track the progress of your canal survey. Behind the scenes a variable is increased every month until the goal is reached, which triggers the completion event. The Journal Entry also acts as a reminder that you are spending a lot of Bureaucracy on this project, and that it will eventually be made available again once the survey is complete.
DD34 03.png

Constructing a Canal is far from trivial. Before any work can begin, an extensive survey of the region needs to be conducted, costing a hefty chunk of Bureaucracy for the surveyor for around 3 years. Either the owner of the state or a Great Power with an Interest in the region can conduct a survey. Any number of countries can potentially conduct their own surveys and compete to build the Canal themselves.

We’ve made the conscious decision to avoid starting wars or Diplomatic Plays through scripted content wherever possible, instead offering incentives for the player to start their own Plays and encouraging the AI to pursue Journal Entry goals. In this case, the player has the option to either gain a Claim on Sinai or to improve relations with the owner country, helping you along your chosen path but not locking you into a particular course of action.
DD34 04.png

Once you’ve completed your survey, the path diverges depending on whether you own the appropriate land. If you already own either a Treaty Port or the whole state region you can simply begin constructing the canal, but if not you’ll need to find a way to acquire it, either through monetary or coercive means. A Decision becomes available allowing you to purchase a Treaty Port in the appropriate State Region in exchange for a series of very large weekly payments, assuming you can convince the local rulers to part with the port. You might however decide that you’d rather keep your money and start a Diplomatic Play for a Treaty Port or the entire State Region (the former will cost you a lot less Infamy), which might lead either to a peaceful concession to your demands or to war.

And that’s all for today! Next week I’ll be handing you over to one of our Content Designers to talk about Expeditions and Decisions.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • 202
  • 172Like
  • 28
  • 17Love
  • 5
  • 3Haha
Reactions:

elandread

First Lieutenant
77 Badges
Apr 10, 2012
248
459
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
And if the Ottoman Empire conquers Rome and don't want their Devout IG to gain additional political strength from having taken control of the Vatican, they (or anyone who controls it) can certainly burn it to the ground.
The problem is that they can decide to keep it - and then their devout IG will gain additional political strength, which will be a magical effect which doesn't make any sense.

the Eiffel Tower
If it just gives Prestige and improves the efficiency of Radios consumption (or something like that, to represent its role as a radio tower) locally, then it's fine. But basically any other effects will be magical and won't make any sense.
 
Last edited:
  • 20Like
Reactions:

wilcoxchar

Field Marshal
98 Badges
Nov 15, 2004
5.111
17.588
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
Looks pretty cool!

Considering the graphical fidelity of the game, would it be possible to adjust the model for the panama canal to include the topograhical reality of the region, and have at least Lake Gatun present as a part of landscape and the canal structure? I think that would increase immersion a lot compared to a magical straight canal that the model presents at the moment.

View attachment 808794
Yeah. Like with the depiction of the canal in Civ 6, it's unfortunately still falling into the trope of people seeing the Miraflores Lock and thinking the entire canal looks like that, or just taking the lock and scaling it up to be the entire canal. Hopefully it gets fixed by release.
 
  • 2Like
  • 2
Reactions:

Revolution 11

Major
48 Badges
Apr 7, 2014
683
2.426
  • Darkest Hour
  • March of the Eagles
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Lead and Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities in Motion
So what makes the United States and the white house uniquely more capable of running an extensive bureaucracy than any other building or country in the world? The effects don't feel exactly realistic.

In Vic2 terms it makes sense for the Eiffel Tower or Statue of Liberty to grant prestige to a country, or to increase tourism if that's a thing, because the whole point is that it is a unique and prestigious wonder. One might even argue that so long as the Statue of Liberty exists it would serve as a reminder of what America was even under an authoritarian regime, and thus increase attraction to liberalism and democracy.

But I'm not sure I see why the Vatican would inherently strengthen the devout interest group. What if as a communist I want to turn it into a museum instead, similar to how the Hagia Sophia was a museum until recently? It might even be a point of secular pride that it's a museum when it is contextualized like that.

I'm apprehensive about inherent unique effects in buildings.
Wouldn't the White House be more of a bonus to prestige? I can still see the boost to Bureaucracy because of the West Wing but that is added much later. This should be a upgrade to the building locked behind techs or Institutions.
 
  • 5
  • 1Like
Reactions:

A Landy

Lt. General
106 Badges
Jul 22, 2011
1.374
1.315
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • March of the Eagles
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV
Guide to Restoring Order to the Seat of Patriarch of Rome:
1. Play as any Orthodox Country
2. Declare war on the Papal States
3. Eject the Pope and replace him with a Patriarch
4. ?
5. Profit
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:
F

Flying Mathias

Guest
And if the Ottoman Empire conquers Rome and don't want their Devout IG to gain additional political strength from having taken control of the Vatican, they (or anyone who controls it) can certainly burn it to the ground. It is just a building, and follow all the normal building rules.
Does this mean even the Papal States can destroy the Vatican themselves? That seems silly.
 
  • 2Haha
Reactions:

melanocoryphus

Recruit
40 Badges
Feb 17, 2022
2
59
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
I don't think the monuments should grant any national or global effects other than adding some prestige. Some of those buffs, like IG influence, should belong to specific laws and institutions.
 
  • 26
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Tukata

Second Lieutenant
20 Badges
May 5, 2019
138
988
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
Only eleven monuments? With so few of them, I don't really see the point of even adding that to the game, or dedicating an entire DD to that feature.
As for Civilization V style monuments, I don't really think it belongs to a Victoria game.
 
  • 26
  • 5
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Moniker010

Recruit
29 Badges
Dec 7, 2020
3
32
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
Just wanted to add my voice to the chorus. Every president in the world has a residence - the thing that makes the White House so worthy of note in the real world is the massive and influential country it sits at the helm of. Hopefully, the raw power of the United States is already present and depicted in the game systems on its own?

Eiffel Tower makes more sense but seems like it would be better added in a large expansion emphasizing tourism and cultural competition. As others have said, any large and powerful country could build it, so locking it to France just seems like a buff to France for no real reason.

I don't have a problem with these iconic buildings being represented in game, but it does feel little deterministic when they actually impact gameplay.
 
  • 30
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Revolution 11

Major
48 Badges
Apr 7, 2014
683
2.426
  • Darkest Hour
  • March of the Eagles
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Lead and Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities in Motion
Absolutely, unless the monument is some kind of masterwork in infrastructure or a giant bureaucratic office or something, the effects of a monument should be more toward the ethereal than physical. Increase prestige and promote ideology, as well as tourism. At least to fit the spirit of the game we've been shown so far.
I agree with this. Prestige and a bonus to the approval of certain IGs should be the maximum benefits allowed. Let these bonuses feed into all the secondary effects that are currently primary effects of monuments.

A weak nation with monuments should not be better in any way than a strong nation with no monuments. The benefits should be in the prestige capacity only.
 
  • 14
  • 3Like
Reactions:

chopak

Major
61 Badges
Dec 16, 2010
565
724
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Dungeonland
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
DD only mentions Suez and Panama Canals. Are only these two in the game? Any Alt-hist canals?

Have you considered using adding Northwest and Northeast Passages to the game? Possibly reusing the 'Survey' mechanic?
 
  • 5Like
  • 2
Reactions:

Eddie121

Captain
77 Badges
Nov 29, 2014
434
1.288
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
Is it possible to upgrade the canals?

Will we have the opportunity to build inland canals for shipping/infrastructure (Erie, Rhin-Marne etc.)?
 
  • 5Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Ttrgw

Second Lieutenant
44 Badges
Apr 29, 2013
192
736
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
Was it possible in reality to not allow certain countries to use the canal in peacetime?
The fact that Britain didn't allow the Russian fleet to pass through the Suez Canal during the Russo-Japanese War came to mind, but it was not an episode of not allowing use of the canal in peacetime, considering that Russia was at war with Japan, an ally of Britain.
 
  • 3Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Feb 12, 2010
744
4.829
So what makes the United States and the white house uniquely more capable of running an extensive bureaucracy than any other building or country in the world? The effects don't feel exactly realistic.

If I may, think of it from this angle: the point of the monument is that you get to destroy it. The bonus is just there to bribe the other guy into building it in the first place so that you can destroy it.

Imagine Kaiser Wilhelm, stone-faced, watching as the sappers rig demolition charges around the Eiffel Tower. Imagine the free people of Italy stabling their animals in the corridors of the Vatican, smashing the statues and daubing communist slogans on the walls. Imagine Eugene Debs speaking from a podium atop the mangled scrap of the Statue of Liberty. Imagine rows of proud, tired Canadian troops in neat formation as flames lick out of the windows of the White House. Imagine being the person who blows up the pyramids.

How much less interesting would this be if it were just another building?
 
  • 15
  • 4Like
  • 4Haha
  • 1Love
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Panagean

Captain
46 Badges
Nov 27, 2019
339
1.556
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
I really dislike the general move towards monument-style systems Paradox games seem to be embracing (they just about work in CK3 because of the "legacy" elements of scrambling over the remains of the Roman and Carolingian empires). I play games like Civ and Humankind to put enormous buildings on a map that give me overpowered buffs - I play games like Vic and EU to simulate how societies and nations work, not lumps of stone.
 
  • 46
  • 6
  • 5Like
Reactions:

Kipsta

Major
15 Badges
Apr 28, 2012
510
1.101
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Semper Fi
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
I was actually joking when I posted "We Civ-series now". :oops:
Kinda concerned with the effects, you either make them near useless which will firmly plant them in the eye candy category where they belong or you try to open up Pandora's box here. In either case you are going to be attracting the ire of many players.
 
  • 34
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:

WishPig

Sergeant
May 1, 2019
70
242
Canals look cool but I'm very skeptical about the idea of monuments, I can understand Vatican city existing as one as I think it makes sense and the alternative would be a state modifier that you can't turn off.

Statue of Liberty giving migration or Eiffel tower giving production I think I'm not entirely sold on, it feels a bit gamey and very specific.

White House giving any sort of bureacratic bonus is definitely too far for me, it doesn't really make any sense, it's just a bureacratic building for America that's not really special other than being a tourist attraction to Americans. I don't understand how owning it/it existing would give better bueracracy than any other capital building residence of the head of state? At least an Eiffel tower or the Statue of Liberty are unique in that if someone builds a second one its not as impressive (and thus less useful), if UK were to build an exact copy of the White House in place of 10 Downing Street would they also get this bueracracy bonus?
 
Last edited:
  • 18
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:

FleetingRain

Field Marshal
58 Badges
Aug 2, 2014
3.048
5.826
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
On the other hand, some monument buildings ought to have national effects, as symbols of the nation's accomplishments or identity - the Eiffel Tower or the Hagia Sophia are good examples of these. And if the Ottoman Empire conquers Rome and don't want their Devout IG to gain additional political strength from having taken control of the Vatican, they (or anyone who controls it) can certainly burn it to the ground. It is just a building, and follow all the normal building rules. Monuments don't have any special powers to affect the country in non-immersive, "magical" seeming ways - if they do, we may have made a mistake, and mistakes can be easily fixed. :)

Wouldn't it be easier for the Vatican City to only work with Catholic (and Orthodox I guess) nations? Let's be honest, the ottoman devout wouldn't really get stronger because ottoman bureaucrats work in the Vatican. More prestigious/infamous maybe, but not stronger.

And honestly, I think most monuments should be locked to their historical nations. White House should just be an USA/CSA-only building, it would avoid most qualms people have with the design/modifiers.
 
Last edited:
  • 7
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:

$ilent_$trider

Prince of Trivia
82 Badges
Mar 13, 2010
1.782
3.148
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Impire
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
Adding my voice to the chorus of prestige bonus and maybe tourists attraction (if that's a thing). If monuments are just a special category of buildings, I could see how some monuments could provide something else besides the prestige bonus (say, building the Hoover Dam and getting electricity) but there are very few cases where this should apply.
The White House should not be any special because it's the White House. It's just the seat of power of a country. Otherwise, we need to to do this for every country and allow them similar bonus by having the Catete Palace if playing as Brazil, or Miraflores Palace, if playing as Venezuela, or the Elysée Palace if French, and so on and so on...
 
  • 23
  • 3Like
Reactions:

historybuff2100

Recruit
67 Badges
Aug 21, 2015
5
105
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Sengoku
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
I think this is a terrible idea, Victoria 3 as a successor to Victoria 2 should not be including what are essentially "magic" buildings that for no other reason than they exist give a benefit to those that control them. The white house has no reason to give any more "bonuses" to bureaucracy than should the forbidden city (which would make WAY more sense by the way). This is too far removed from the simulation aspects of the game and I strongly advise the devs to rethink their inclusion.
 
  • 35
  • 4
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Haresus

Things are often as they seem...
55 Badges
Oct 9, 2010
993
2.131
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
If I may, think of it from this angle: the point of the monument is that you get to destroy it. The bonus is just there to bribe the other guy into building it in the first place so that you can destroy it.

Imagine Kaiser Wilhelm, stone-faced, watching as the sappers rig demolition charges around the Eiffel Tower. Imagine the free people of Italy stabling their animals in the corridors of the Vatican, smashing the statues and daubing communist slogans on the walls. Imagine Eugene Debs speaking from a podium atop the mangled scrap of the Statue of Liberty. Imagine rows of proud, tired Canadian troops in neat formation as flames lick out of the windows of the White House. Imagine being the person who blows up the pyramids.

How much less interesting would this be if it were just another building?
The problem here is that you would, presumably, have to annex said state to delete the building. Instead of imagining Kaiser Wilhelm demolishing the Eiffel Tower, you have to imagine the German Empire annex half of France and then destroying a building that is only beneficial to Germany. Instead of Canada burning down the White House, Canada is declaring that Washington D.C. is now a part of Canada and trying to govern a massive population of disgruntled Americans, and then they burn down a building that would make the bureaucratic strain easier for them.

And even if I'm wrong and you could march an army into Washington D.C. and burn down the White House... what's to stop the Americans from just rebuilding it? It's no different from any other building, there's nothing saying that once it's gone, it's gone. The USA should surely be able to afford the cost.

I am worried that this monument system just encourages nonsensical expansion into random states to seize bonuses. France conquering Rome (ignoring the rest of Italy) to get more influence, or the UK conquering Paris for some bonus. The Papal States should have very high devout influence, because it's the Papal States and a theocracy, not because of a building that it can dismantle at will. Not sure why the USA, famous for having a fairly elitist democracy, should give Pops more political strength from votes either.
 
  • 31
  • 5Like
  • 3
Reactions: