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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #34 - Canals & Monuments

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Good evening and welcome to this week’s Victoria 3 development diary! Today’s topic is Canals & Monuments, unique buildings with special inputs, outputs, and effects.

The Vatican City is the seat of the Catholic Church and a great asset to the Papal States in Victoria 3. As Europe developed and industrialized, the power of religious authority in national politics declined steeply but never lost its relevance. Can you change the course of history and renew the temporal power of the Pope?
DD34 01.png

Monuments are unique buildings only available in specific states, each with its own 3D model on the map. They make use of some of the more interesting aspects of the production methods system; just as buildings can output Goods, they can also output both national and local modifiers, Capacities, and effects on the pops working there. The Vatican City for instance outputs the Influence capacity as well as greatly increasing the political strength of the Devout Interest Group. Meanwhile the White House adds a multiplier to your national Bureaucracy output as well as increasing the amount of political strength Pops gain from votes. Not all Monuments are present at the start date. Some, like the Eiffel Tower, must be constructed, and Monuments are significantly more costly and time-consuming to construct than standard buildings. Monuments are subsidized by government funding, so if you decide that a Monument is unaffordable or that you aren’t interested in its effects (for instance if you as communist Italy no longer want to Church to wield so much power) you can simply defund them. On release we intend to have eleven different Monuments in total.

The Panama Canal links the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. Finally completed in 1914 after decades of planning and construction, ships no longer had to take the long and treacherous route around South America to travel between the East and West. Yes, we can see the trees and houses in the Canal - we’ll fix it!
DD34 02.png

Like Monuments, Canals are unique buildings with a special set of inputs and outputs. But the true allure of constructing a Canal is that it allows you to create new connections between sea nodes, allowing ships to travel through the isthmuses of Panama and Suez. This significantly reduces the Convoy costs for trading and supplying armies across vast ocean distances, as well as your vulnerability to unscrupulous rivals trying to disrupt your supply lines.

We use the Journal Entry system to track the progress of your canal survey. Behind the scenes a variable is increased every month until the goal is reached, which triggers the completion event. The Journal Entry also acts as a reminder that you are spending a lot of Bureaucracy on this project, and that it will eventually be made available again once the survey is complete.
DD34 03.png

Constructing a Canal is far from trivial. Before any work can begin, an extensive survey of the region needs to be conducted, costing a hefty chunk of Bureaucracy for the surveyor for around 3 years. Either the owner of the state or a Great Power with an Interest in the region can conduct a survey. Any number of countries can potentially conduct their own surveys and compete to build the Canal themselves.

We’ve made the conscious decision to avoid starting wars or Diplomatic Plays through scripted content wherever possible, instead offering incentives for the player to start their own Plays and encouraging the AI to pursue Journal Entry goals. In this case, the player has the option to either gain a Claim on Sinai or to improve relations with the owner country, helping you along your chosen path but not locking you into a particular course of action.
DD34 04.png

Once you’ve completed your survey, the path diverges depending on whether you own the appropriate land. If you already own either a Treaty Port or the whole state region you can simply begin constructing the canal, but if not you’ll need to find a way to acquire it, either through monetary or coercive means. A Decision becomes available allowing you to purchase a Treaty Port in the appropriate State Region in exchange for a series of very large weekly payments, assuming you can convince the local rulers to part with the port. You might however decide that you’d rather keep your money and start a Diplomatic Play for a Treaty Port or the entire State Region (the former will cost you a lot less Infamy), which might lead either to a peaceful concession to your demands or to war.

And that’s all for today! Next week I’ll be handing you over to one of our Content Designers to talk about Expeditions and Decisions.
 
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Leoreth

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I think monuments fit fairly well with the idea that international power in this time period is (to some extent) the perception of being a wealth, cultured, and civilised country that can achieve great things. Monuments would be an aspect of that.

That is exactly the reason why the World Fair took off during the same period. It was a good opportunity to showcase the technological capabilities and achievements of a nation to increase the perception of being a formidable nation, i.e. prestige in game terms. Some famous monuments arose directly out of the world fair system.

More broadly historical powers have always used architecture to demonstrate their power and they didn't only do this to have nice facades to look at. A lot of Roman public infrastructure had a utilitarian purpose but none of them required all the marble and columns being put into it. Those existed to showcase both the architectural capabilities and wealth of the empire and (literally) cement its presence in its subject's minds on an everyday basis.
 
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Monuments like an Eiffel tower in a big strategy game? Doesn't make sense why to me.

I'm adding an edit (its 2 days later): Eiffel tower can be built anywhere in the world, its a mini tourist thing, though I hope it isn't built in an ahistorical place. It just seems unsuitable for non-cosmetic bonuses to be thrown onto. Just having clean streets is almost an equivalent touristy thing. If there's a design interest in making the map look nice, sure have a limited amount of monuments with their asset showing, but maybe they can just be cosmetic. Local churches might be more significant to happiness than owning rome in your borders (where the Vatican is). Unique assets on the map might make sense, but then what happens if greece takes a place with a turkey asset, like if you want there to be a mosque monument in Istanbul instead of Hagia Sophia? Another thing to mind is russia having a place with a slave trader monument that predated the Russian annexation of their area. Clunky concept in my mind, so thats why I will stick to other titles.
 
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Little note: Measuring the Mediternean and Red Sea water levels concerning the Suez canal should probarbly not be a bureaucratic approval process but a scientific one. Costing research points, not bureaucracy. You could then employ bureaucracy to push out farmers and other such pesky things out of the way of the project.
 
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Little note: Measuring the Mediternean and Red Sea water levels concerning the Suez canal should probarbly not be a bureaucratic approval process but a scientific one.
I tend to think surveyors (who would be the people responsible for this kind of measurement) are best approximated as bureaucrats.
 
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I tend to think surveyors (who would be the people responsible for this kind of measurement) are best approximated as bureaucrats.
I agree. You're not paying scientists to come up with new surveying methods, you're paying a bunch of laborers and some engineers to survey a wide area of land using already researched techniques.
 
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Is there an equivalent to nationalism? Because many monuments we're speaking about in that time period imposed/"generated" nationalism. "Here look at our tower, how biiiig it is. The Eiffel Tower, now look at it, you puny German dooogs!" ... I'm paraphrasing, obviously.

But I think prestige and nationalism should be affected by some of those monuments. And yes, prestige as well, because - as someone else already mentioned - those building projects were massive! Finishing them gave that country prestige! The Panama Canal showed everyone that the USA had the resources to build a fucking artificial river from one side of the American isthmus to the other. The Taj Mahal was a prestigious trophy for the British. The white house....eh, not so much. If I remember correctly it even burned down during this time period? I'm not entirely sure. Anyway, prestige and nationalism, both would make sense.

Here: "One of the largest and most difficult engineering projects ever undertaken [...] France began work on the canal in 1881, but stopped because of lack of investors' confidence due to engineering problems and a high worker mortality rate. The United States took over the project on May 4, 1904, and opened the canal on August 15, 1914." It took 33 years to build that fucking thing and France kind of gave up on that project, so the USA took over, finished it, and controls it until 1999!

"The United States spent almost $500 million (roughly equivalent to $12.9 billion in 2020)[55] to finish the project. This was by far the largest American engineering project to date." 12.9 billion! The USA (just to put it in perspective) took up $12.9 billion and shoved them up that project's throat, whereas France simply couldn't afford to do so.
"The French effort went bankrupt in 1889 after reportedly spending US$287,000,000; an estimated 22,000 men died from disease and accidents, and the savings of 800,000 investors were lost." This was a flex from the United States.
 
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Is there an equivalent to nationalism? Because many monuments we're speaking about in that time period imposed/"generated" nationalism. "Here look at our tower, how biiiig it is. The Eiffel Tower, now look at it, you puny German dooogs!" ... I'm paraphrasing, obviously.

Not explicitly called "nationalism", but is represented in interest groups and how loyal or radical they are. So basically in your case give a buff to loyalty for certain interest groups.
 
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Olaf Trygvasson

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Regarding Vatican City and how it grants additional power to the clergy regardless of state religion, it's mainly a result of the fact that we can't trigger a Production Method on religion - it's not a Law, or a Tech, or another Production Method. If time permits we might add that functionality, which would then easily let us change the behavior of Vatican City depending on the state religion of the controlling country.
So it would be impossible to make it give power only to an interest group of Catholic clergy? Obviously its silly that a Muslim nation would listen to its Muslim clergy more, just because they control Rome, but I could see it where the Catholics within the country are able to wield slightly more political sway, since they could use Rome as a sort of Catholic headquarters
 
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So it would be impossible to make it give power only to an interest group of Catholic clergy? Obviously its silly that a Muslim nation would listen to its Muslim clergy more, just because they control Rome, but I could see it where the Catholics within the country are able to wield slightly more political sway, since they could use Rome as a sort of Catholic headquarters
The way to do that would be having the Vatican increase Catholic Clergy political strength in Lazio, as separate IGs for minority religions is not a thing.
 
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Thank you for adding the game rule to change the effect of monuments. I really appreciate that the devs care so much about the community feedback!
Game rule wasn't the solution :(

Are they going to make certain that the US plays as intended with and without the bureaucracy multiplier castle (based upon the rule)?
Same with the other proposed monuments?

(They have just doubled the amount of QA required)
 
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Thank you for adding the game rule to change the effect of monuments. I really appreciate that the devs care so much about the community feedback!
This is one of the reasons why adding game rules was a genius move. Now players can make these changes themselves without having to rely on mods or badgering the devs to make balance changes.
 
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Game rule wasn't the solution :(

Are they going to make certain that the US plays as intended with and without the bureaucracy multiplier castle (based upon the rule)?
Same with the other proposed monuments?

(They have just doubled the amount of QA required)
I think this is a fair thought, but hopefully the QA team will be sure to play on a variety of settings.
 

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If the unification of Italy would result in an independent Papacy located in the Vatican (you know, like real life), how is it modelled that Italy controls Rome but does not control the Vatican and cannot fund it because it's not actually under their control (but the city hasn't actually destroyed it so it is not removed from the map if the diplomatic situation should change)?
 

Bearjuden

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The Vatican wasn't given independence until like 5 decades after unification.
...okay, but it still happened. This detail is true and also irrelevant to my question.
 
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BrokenSky

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On the other hand, some monument buildings ought to have national effects, as symbols of the nation's accomplishments or identity - the Eiffel Tower or the Hagia Sophia are good examples of these. And if the Ottoman Empire conquers Rome and don't want their Devout IG to gain additional political strength from having taken control of the Vatican, they (or anyone who controls it) can certainly burn it to the ground. It is just a building, and follow all the normal building rules. Monuments don't have any special powers to affect the country in non-immersive, "magical" seeming ways - if they do, we may have made a mistake, and mistakes can be easily fixed. :)

I feel like this leads to the other end of the problem. If the ottomans burned down the Vatican or communist took over Italy and 'just turned it off', I feel like it would have massive global repercussions (up to repercussions on the order of starting a world war)?

(I assume there are other wonders for which could also lead to international incidents too, if certain circumstances were to arise)
 
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