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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #33 - Decentralized Nations

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Hello folks, I'm Ofaloaf, one of the content designers on Victoria 3, and I'm here today to talk about decentralized nations. What are they? Why are they there?

To start with, let's talk about what came before - let's take a quick look at what Victoria (well, Victoria: Revolutions) and Victoria II did when it came to regions outside of traditional imperial homelands.

Africa in Victoria: Revolutions
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Above is Africa as it was represented in Victoria: Revolutions. Most of the continent is open territory for any Great Power to colonize. There's people living there, but they don't do anything. Outside of a few limited cases, like Sokoto, they're represented by… nothing. They do not do anything on their own, and when added to a colonizing power, they just immediately become pawns in the imperial game and don't really care for independence or their own homeland.

Africa in Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
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The same is broadly true in Victoria II. Regions historically colonized by imperial powers, such as most of Africa and parts of the Americas, are represented as unclaimed swathes of land just waiting for an empire to come by and colonize them. The people who live there do not care who marches in, and will just be members of one empire or another forevermore after they are colonized. It's… a model that could use some improvement. It didn't do justice to the people who historically lived there, and, frankly, it made colonial gameplay kind of boring.

Africa as it currently stands in Victoria 3
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In Victoria 3, decentralized nations exist to address both the issues of gameplay and better representation of indigenous peoples. No matter where an empire tries to colonize, someone already lives there. They're organized, although they don't have the same level of international recognition and administrative organization as, say, Congress of Vienna attendees.

No formal declaration of war needs to be made in order to make an incursion into the territories of decentralized nations and start colonizing, although the deeper you colonize into a decentralized nation's lands, the more likely it is a diplomatic play will kick off where the decentralized nation starts a real war of resistance against you. Even if a colony is successfully established, the people living there aren't just pawns - they'll remember that they weren't always colonized subjects, and just like any other part of an empire they'll agitate for independence if conditions are right.


Mapping these nations has been a challenge. We essentially started with the Victoria II map as a base to build off of, which meant we had a lot of work to do just gathering information for peoples across the globe. Records of who lived where, and how many people lived there, have been difficult to obtain for some regions. Gameplay considerations have also driven some design choices - let's look at North America for an example of that process.

Behold the snippet of a beautiful draft image used when presenting the original proposal.
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This is part of one drafted proposal for the implementation of decentralized nations in North America. There's already some compromises in this version - peoples have been consolidated into some larger polities, and some state borders have been followed largely because having just one or two provinces on the other side of a state line can create regions too small to provide anything or anybody - 400 pops living in State X aren't able to provide enough men to contribute a single battalion to a native uprising, among other things. This design isn’t just for the decentralized nations - it is something we also do elsewhere in the world when trying to balance historical accuracy with gameplay, although we of course try to avoid steering too far away from actual history.

North America after the revised proposal was implemented.
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Even with these considerations, we still ended up pursuing a modified version of that proposal that did more to preserve the borders of larger imperial borders - we didn't want too many avenues for the United States to colonize its way into historical Canadian territories, or for Mexico to colonize its way into Minnesota. I do miss the Council of Three Fires and hope I can get it back in, but that depends on getting a design hammered out that works with the considerations and limitations we just went over above.


Other regions have had design considerations made in their implementation, too.

(from Wikipedia)
image6.png


I'm gonna be real with you, there was no way we were going to accurately and sufficiently map out all the peoples of New Guinea. That's one region where I think we've probably done the most consolidation, but I think it was necessary in order to provide anything like the combined strength needed in order to give the indigenous peoples of New Guinea a decent punch in case of a native uprising.

West Africa in Victoria 3.
image7.jpg

West Africa had many design decisions made since it was first mapped out for V3; as mentioned above, the original map built off of was Victoria 2's, so the first thing done was just getting some entity everywhere on the map. This early draft has been revised and revised and revised again, and probably will still be subject to further revisions. Countries that were first marked as decentralized have been centralized, such as the Ashanti Empire, and tag additions and renamings are a thing that's happened already and will happen again, as we continue to invest time in research and listen to feedback from our fans.

Decentralized nations give life to regions that have been treated as blank slates up 'til now. Mapping them out, getting them right, and balancing the challenges of precision and gameplay are a constant struggle, one which we are constantly tackling and working through. The result of all this, though, is a world that feels much more alive, one that I hope you'll be happily exploring at Victoria 3's release.

I'm terrible at transitions so let me just say that next week is @neondt's dev diary, and we're going to ship some monumental information there! And by that I mean it's on canals and monuments.
 
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I do like the idea of decentalized nations, it prevents the Africa map from having to be empty to allow for colonization. Kinda felt like that was a problem in Vic2 and also EU4, where there was a lot of empty land in the Americas where tribes existed historically just so it was possible to colonize. I'm just interested in the extent that we can diplomatically interact with the decentralized nations.
 
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Sigma2718

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Is there some algorithm in place to create straight borders after a conferernce between colonial powers? One that simply "corrects" the borders of the states which are neighboring the colonial states of another power?
 
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Is there some algorithm in place to create straight borders after a conferernce between colonial powers? One that simply "corrects" the borders of the states which are neighboring the colonial states of another power?
Yes. The states already have this straight borders. That's the algorithm.
 
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1. Will there be mechanic to enable diplomatic or subterfuge/espionage involvement of decentralised nations (without colonizing them first) as local agents, e.g. to start rebellions or contribute manpower to local wars? This used to happen quite often (although more before the XIX c.) with European powers playing the local peoples against each other and making up for the lack of their own manpower "on the ground".
Isn't this what the colonization process would be an abstraction of?
 

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Can colonized, formerly decentralized nations revolt as fully centralized states if they are unhappy but have been under a centralized state long enough? Representing possibly the imposed changes to their society and their possible recognition that it's how the world is moving and they won't be able to resist if they don't adapt. Or will they emerge as the society they once were no matter what? What about their laws, how will they inherit laws from their oppressor nation? Do they start with the same? Will they generally be opposed to those laws, even if no interest group in the newly revolted nation has any reason to oppose them other than "yeah, but they had those laws?"

Can decentralized areas be interacted with generally by other powers? I don't fully understand the limits of what a decentralized area can or cannot allow. Let's say Belgium is colonizing the Congo, can France supply the Congolese with weapons to resist them, or does their decentralized government(s) not allow them that degree of negotiating power with a single entity? Can Belgium or France in this case try to put the Congo in their market area, or is the Congo too decentralized to be considered in a market area even if the imperial power does all of the normal things to put a more centralized government into their market? You (devs) mentioned that you can't peacefully bribe decentralized nations into your nation but I'm not sure if that means this same mechanic or not. Etc.
 

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Wouldn't "stateless nations" be a better label to describe what developers puts under the "decentralized nations" label?
The problem is a lot of those areas had states in them; perhaps this will be resolved by the time the game is fully released, but right now the border between "decentralized" and "centralized" nations feels a bit arbitrary. Zulu is included but not equally centralized Matabele; two of three major "Jihad states" of Senegambia are included, but the third is without clear reason; Massina is included but not Wattara; Kongo is included despite being in a state of extreme decline, but not the much more organized and healthier Kuba, Luba, Lunda, and Kazembe Kingdoms/Empires. And so on.
 

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Will there be some mechanics for decentralized nations? Such as population growth or the ability to gradually centralize over time so they become playable by 1910?
 
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Eons ago back in Victoria I I crafted a whole series of new nations/events for the VIP mod to deal with the travesty of all the empty land in the Americas, Africa and Oceania so that players actually did have to "interact" with the native peoples of those regions as they expanded their empires. It wasn't perfect, but it was better, in my opinion, that having blank spaces on the map that "civilized" nations could just walk into without any problems or resistance.

This new system of decentralized nations is very much the perfect solution to having the peoples of these regions present in the game and not merely empty spaces. Bravo to the developers.

One question - will modders be able to add more decentralized nations to the game - I can think of half a dozen that could be added in Africa and the Americas to further enhance the historical flavor of the time.
 
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If a nation decides to halt colonization efforts &/or decolonize, will there be events regarding the decentralized nation?

After decolonization &/or a successful overthrow of a colonizing nation, will the pops there go back to the way they were before or be changed by the ordeal?
 

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Isn't this what the colonization process would be an abstraction of?

Yes, of course, this was all part of the broad colonization process. In-game it will probably be represented by the costs, consequences, events, progress bars etc. for colonization of each individual region by a given country that attempts this. But this is not what I am getting at.

My question was whether you can interact with a decentralised nation other than by direct colonization attempt, which is ultimately meant to give you actual, political control over an area. You may not want (or be able) to for some areas and the question is if you can still, for example, use the decentralised nations present there to mess with adjacent colonies of other powers or to hinder the colonization attempt by another country - without actually trying to colonize yourself.
 
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Will there be some mechanics for decentralized nations? Such as population growth or the ability to gradually centralize over time so they become playable by 1910?

Currently no mechanics. The pops act the same as regular pops in other nations so they'll still grow like others. No, they cannot centralize.
 
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Wow I really want to play as a decentralised country, could be some fun roleplay once mods expand on them.
For the love of all that is holy, I hope that Paradox does not make decentralized countries playable. People can do whatever they want with mods, but dev time shouldn't be spent on making a half-baked decentralized experience when it could be spent making the game better as a whole.
 
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For the love of all that is holy, I hope that Paradox does not make decentralized countries playable. People can do whatever they want with mods, but dev time shouldn't be spent on making a half-baked decentralized experience when it could be spent making the game better as a whole.
And I can't even really think of what the gameplay would actually be for decentralized entities.
 
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And I can't even really think of what the gameplay would actually be for decentralized entities.

Entertaining the idea a bit, maybe decentralized nations would have clan or factional interest groups that are very regional in nature; something along the lines of Imperator or CKIII feudalism?
 
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