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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #3 - Buildings

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Hello again everyone! It’s Thursday again, and that means that it’s time to talk about Buildings. Buildings are a core mechanic of Victoria 3, as it is where the Pops work to produce resources such as Goods. Buildings represent a wide range of industries, businesses and government functions, from humble subsistence farms to complex motor industries and sprawling financial districts. In this dev diary, we’re going to broadly cover the main types of buildings and their function in Victoria 3.

To talk about buildings though, I first have to mention states! States are a concept that should be generally familiar to anyone who’s played some of our other games such as Victoria II or Hearts of Iron IV - a geographic unit of varying size in which much of Victoria 3’s gameplay takes place. States are where Pops live and (more importantly for our subject matter) where Buildings are located and built.

The State of Götaland in Sweden
dd3_1.png

We will return to states more in later dev diaries, but for now let’s keep talking about Buildings!

Before we start on Buildings, something that’s important to note is that Buildings are just places where Pops can work and generally do not represent a single building - a single level of Government Administration, for example, represents the necessary buildings and infrastructure to support a certain number of Bureaucrats. Buildings always need qualified pops to work in them to yield any benefit, and an empty building is just that - empty and completely useless. This holds true even for buildings like Railroads and Ports that did not need Pops to work in them in Victoria 2.

Most buildings are directly constructed, but some (like the Subsistence Buildings below) will appear automatically based on certain conditions. When Buildings are constructed, the construction uses Pop labor and goods, and the costs involved will be subject to market forces.

But onto the different building types! First out, we have Subsistence Buildings. These are a special type of highly inefficient Buildings that cannot manually be built or destroyed, but rather will appear anywhere in the world where there is Arable Land that isn’t being used for another type of building. The vast majority of the world’s population starts the game ‘working’ in subsistence buildings as Peasants, and much of the game’s industrialization process is about finding more productive employment for your Peasants.


Peasants eke out a meager living in these Subsistence Farms, contributing little to GDP and taxes per capita
dd3_2.png

Another special type of building is Urban Centers. Like Subsistence Buildings, these are automatically created rather than built, with the level of Urban Center in a State being tied to the amount of Urbanization generated by its other buildings. Urban Centers primarily employ Shopkeepers and provide a number of important local functions that we will get into at a later point.


The Urban Center is where you’ll find most of your middle-class Shopkeepers
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Next up we have Government Buildings. These are buildings that are fully funded by the state (ie, you!) and provide crucial civil services required for the smooth running of a Victorian nation. Examples include Government Administrations where Bureaucrats produce Bureaucracy for the administration of incorporated states and funding of Institutions, and Universities where Academics produce Innovation for technological progression.


Bureaucrats work in Government Administrations to provide Bureaucracy - the lifeblood of the government
dd3_4.png

The counterpart to Government Buildings is Private Industries. The vast majority of Buildings in Victoria 3 fall under this category, which includes a broad range of industries such as (non-subsistence!) farms, plantations, mines and factories. Unlike Government Buildings, Private Industries are not owned by the state but rather by Pops such as Capitalists and Aristocrats, who reap the profits they bring in and pay wages to the other Pops working there (usually at least - under certain economic systems the ownership of buildings may be radically different!).

Many of these buildings are limited by locally available resources such as Arable Land for agriculture and simply how much iron is available in the state for Iron Mines. Urban Buildings such as Factories however, are only limited by how many people you can cram into the state, simulating the more densely populated nature of cities. In short, there is no system of building ‘slots’ or anything like that, as we want limitations on buildings to function in a sensible and realistic way.


Several different types of Private Industries are shown below
dd3_5.png

Finally there are Development Buildings. These are often (but not always!) government buildings that distinguish themselves by providing vital state-level functions. A couple examples are Barracks that recruit and train soldiers from the local population and Railways that provide the Infrastructure other buildings need to bring their goods to the Market.


From left to right: Barracks, Port, Naval Bases and Railway
dd3_6.png

To finish up this dev diary I just want to mention that building up your country is meant to be more of a hands-on experience in Victoria 3, as this is absolutely core to the society-building aspect of the game and forms a major part of the game’s core loop. This naturally also means that we need to give the player the necessary tools to manage their buildings in a large empire, which may involve some form of autonomous building construction, though we haven’t yet nailed down exactly what form that would take (and whether it will involve decision making on the part of the investor class). Ultimately though, we want the player, not the AI to be the one primarily in charge of the development of their own country.

Well, there you have it. There is of course a lot in here (such as Production Methods) that will receive further explanation in the many more dev diaries we have planned, so be sure to tune in next week as I talk about Goods. See you then!
 
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I'm interested in seeing how you can do things like collectivization of agriculture where it's a lateral shift in buildings for political reasons.
What you describe is probably gonna be explained in-depth the Production Methods dev diary. Pop types employed in buildings may change and remember each pop type has weights towards different Interest Groups. For example removing Aristocrats and replacing them with Bureaucrats will affect politics :)
 
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Re the decision to let AI investor class decide what to build or have player have some kind of influence: what about some kind of a permit system? It would allow a government (the player) to (somewhat) guide/influence what types of factories they'd allow to be build in a particular state, thereby making sure the AI can't make particular bad decisions. At same time, the decision whether or not to actually invest in building of particular factory given the permit conditions set, could still be left to the AI investor class. I recognise it's maybe not fully laissez-faire but what country truly is? You could potentially limit how many types of industries a player can 'block' from being built by AI through permits.
 
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Will indigenous collectivization or later re-collectivization like the Ejidos in Mexico be represented? In gameplay terms, it could be represented as a way to increase lower-class pop happiness and access to goods but pisses off large landowners and limits the export market. One of the most distinctive parts of the Victorian era was the drastic changes in local patterns of life that did not necessarily benefit all that it impacted, and land reform was a constant of the period almost anywhere you look.
 

Craabosz

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How do private buildings get built? I know we chose the building and there is an investor pool, but how can we use the investor pool? How do pops ensure that their money goes into structures they are interested in? If I do not invest their money, while they get mad at me? If the money is already segregated to specific buildings why not allow the private pops to build them like in Vic 2 and I can specify what type of the buildings they can make. Kind of like a government zoning or regulation.
That way I can say X state should only build steel mills and liquor factories. If the capitalist in that state do not want to invest in those industries, they will pocket the money and be incentivized to move to a state where I allow them to build what they want. That way the pops can do their thing and I control as a guiding hand. Of course me as the government could decide they can't build anything and do it myself ie Planned Economy in Vic 2.
You could also make the investment pool be a choice of the pop. A pop with high loyalty will invest with you, while another pop will invest with its interests group pool and they will build their own buildings based off your regulations. You could also have lobbying to open a certain industry in state etc.
 

yurcick

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We don't want the game to play itself, so to speak
That's a shame. For me, national gardening is exactly "letting the game play itself", with the player, like a gardener, adjusting the lights and checking the humidity and so on.

It doesn't mean that the player will get bored, it's just his job is to oversee things rather than to do everything manually. It's to see his pet country grow, and not really to stretch its bones manually.

Imagine Cities: Skylines, where instead of setting zones, you would build each thing yourself. Does it sound like fun? To me, it doesn't.
Another example is V1 pop promotion.
 
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That's a shame. For me, national gardening is exactly "letting the game play itself", with the player adjusting the lights and checking the humidity and so on.

It doesn't mean that the player will get bored, it's just his job is to oversee things rather than doing everything, to see his pet country grow, and not really to stretch its bones manually.

Imagine Cities: Skylines, where instead of setting zones, you would build each thing yourself. Does it sound like fun? To me, it doesn't.
Another example is V1 pop promotion.
The Cities Skylines analogy doesn't really work. The POPs are more along the same lines as zoned buildings here. The factories are closer to the police stations, fire stations, power plants, etc., the tools the player uses to guide what income levels and quality of building in C:S or professions of POPs in Victoria are attracted to certain locations, and the police and fire stations, power plants, etc. you do individually place each building yourself.
 
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The factories are closer to the police stations, fire stations, power plants, etc.
Funny you should mention those because police stations as well as other civic facilities like hospitals and schools didn't make it as buildings because managing those manually proved to be boring and micromanagey – unlike the factories, apparently.

Nice to see this "plopping buildings by hand as core gameplay element" design philosophy holding so well.
 
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The POPs are more along the same lines as zoned buildings here. The factories are closer to the police stations, fire stations, power plants, etc
I understand the analogy can be shifted this way. I'm just adding my opinion that this game design decision is not to my taste. And explanation for this opinion: the chosen approach eliminates some of the beauty of the V2 ecosystem, where for most economic systems the pops were actually responsible for other pops' employment. This, in theory, allowed for interesting positive feedback cycles, where richer pops make investments and get richer still. This was the essense of Victoria to me: being able to set up processes and watch things grow, really play the game as a garden, not as a wall to paint. Not all aspects were arguably in working condition ever throughout V2 release and patching process, but in my opinion, it's definitely something to improve and fix, not dismantle.

tl;dr I actually love games that play themselves. There are examples of great games that do and that don't, but personally I'm hugely disappointed that V3 moves in the direction of the latter ones
 
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Funny you should mention those because police stations as well as other civic facilities like hospitals and schools didn't make it as buildings because managing those manually proved to be boring and micromanagey – unlike the factories, apparently.

Nice to see this "plopping buildings by hand as core gameplay element" design philosophy holding so well.
Because factories involve trade offs and choices. It makes a big difference whether you build a cannery or an arms factory. On the other hand, why would you ever want a state without a hospital or school?

I understand the analogy can be shifted this way. I'm just adding my opinion that this game design decision is not to my taste. And explanation for this opinion: the chosen approach eliminates some of the beauty of the V2 ecosystem, where for most economic systems the pops were actually responsible for other pops' employment. This, in theory, allowed for interesting positive feedback cycles, where richer pops make investments and get richer still.
This gameplay loop is still there. The only difference is that now you get to choose what the rich POPs build.
 
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Funny you should mention those because police stations as well as other civic facilities like hospitals and schools didn't make it as buildings because managing those manually proved to be boring and micromanagey – unlike the factories, apparently.

Nice to see this "plopping buildings by hand as core gameplay element" design philosophy holding so well.
...wut. Last I checked building police stations, fire stations, etc. is still in Cities Skylines.
 
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...wut. Last I checked building police stations, fire stations, etc. is still in Cities Skylines.
He means they didn’t make it into Victoria 3. He could have expressed that more clearly, especially because there actually are a lot of “civic buildings” in the game (Admin Offices, Universities, Barracks, etc.) They just aren’t ones that are so ubiquitous as to make the decision to build them a no-brainer (hospitals, police stations, etc.)
 
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This gameplay loop is still there. The only difference is that now you get to choose what the rich POPs build.
This "only difference" is a crucial one. He is talking not about gameplay loop, but ingame feedback loop that happens whether player wants it to happen or not. Now when player is forced into this feedback loop, system had lost it's charm.
 
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Gotta love when people comment on these old DDs the day a new one is set to drop...
 
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I have some idea how to bring together manual private buildings construction with capitalist economy. I think that paradoxically the more laissez faire policy a given nation conducts, the lees flexibility player should have because we should be limited by what the capitalists would do in the real world. For example player could only build factories producing goods for which there is relatively high demand and low supply (capitalists, in general, would not invest in low-profit ventures having better opportunities). There could also be other different restrictions simulating some market trends or speculative bubbles. On the other hand state capitalism should allow total investment freedom (for example player should be able to further increase production of high-supply goods to make them even more accessible to the society). With policy of interventionism, the limitations should be somewhere in the middle. This way the player would be in control over the development of society and the national economy but at the same time he would have to take into account the interests of the capitalists and the basic rules of the economy.​
 

yurcick

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I have some idea how to bring together manual private buildings construction with capitalist economy. I think that paradoxically the more laissez faire policy a given nation conducts, the lees flexibility player should have because we should be limited by what the capitalists would do in the real world. For example player could only build factories producing goods for which there is relatively high demand and low supply (capitalists, in general, would not invest in low-profit ventures having better opportunities). There could also be other different restrictions simulating some market trends or speculative bubbles. On the other hand state capitalism should allow total investment freedom (for example player should be able to further increase production of high-supply goods to make them even more accessible to the society). With policy of interventionism, the limitations should be somewhere in the middle. This way the player would be in control over the development of society and the national economy but at the same time he would have to take into account the interests of the capitalists and the basic rules of the economy.

Cool, we invented V2!
 

wilcoxchar

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I have some idea how to bring together manual private buildings construction with capitalist economy. I think that paradoxically the more laissez faire policy a given nation conducts, the lees flexibility player should have because we should be limited by what the capitalists would do in the real world.​
The developers have already confirmed that this exists as a game mechanic. If you have a more laissez faire economy, you are more limited in what buildings you can spend the Investment Pool on.
 
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