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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #3 - Buildings

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Hello again everyone! It’s Thursday again, and that means that it’s time to talk about Buildings. Buildings are a core mechanic of Victoria 3, as it is where the Pops work to produce resources such as Goods. Buildings represent a wide range of industries, businesses and government functions, from humble subsistence farms to complex motor industries and sprawling financial districts. In this dev diary, we’re going to broadly cover the main types of buildings and their function in Victoria 3.

To talk about buildings though, I first have to mention states! States are a concept that should be generally familiar to anyone who’s played some of our other games such as Victoria II or Hearts of Iron IV - a geographic unit of varying size in which much of Victoria 3’s gameplay takes place. States are where Pops live and (more importantly for our subject matter) where Buildings are located and built.

The State of Götaland in Sweden
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We will return to states more in later dev diaries, but for now let’s keep talking about Buildings!

Before we start on Buildings, something that’s important to note is that Buildings are just places where Pops can work and generally do not represent a single building - a single level of Government Administration, for example, represents the necessary buildings and infrastructure to support a certain number of Bureaucrats. Buildings always need qualified pops to work in them to yield any benefit, and an empty building is just that - empty and completely useless. This holds true even for buildings like Railroads and Ports that did not need Pops to work in them in Victoria 2.

Most buildings are directly constructed, but some (like the Subsistence Buildings below) will appear automatically based on certain conditions. When Buildings are constructed, the construction uses Pop labor and goods, and the costs involved will be subject to market forces.

But onto the different building types! First out, we have Subsistence Buildings. These are a special type of highly inefficient Buildings that cannot manually be built or destroyed, but rather will appear anywhere in the world where there is Arable Land that isn’t being used for another type of building. The vast majority of the world’s population starts the game ‘working’ in subsistence buildings as Peasants, and much of the game’s industrialization process is about finding more productive employment for your Peasants.


Peasants eke out a meager living in these Subsistence Farms, contributing little to GDP and taxes per capita
dd3_2.png

Another special type of building is Urban Centers. Like Subsistence Buildings, these are automatically created rather than built, with the level of Urban Center in a State being tied to the amount of Urbanization generated by its other buildings. Urban Centers primarily employ Shopkeepers and provide a number of important local functions that we will get into at a later point.


The Urban Center is where you’ll find most of your middle-class Shopkeepers
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Next up we have Government Buildings. These are buildings that are fully funded by the state (ie, you!) and provide crucial civil services required for the smooth running of a Victorian nation. Examples include Government Administrations where Bureaucrats produce Bureaucracy for the administration of incorporated states and funding of Institutions, and Universities where Academics produce Innovation for technological progression.


Bureaucrats work in Government Administrations to provide Bureaucracy - the lifeblood of the government
dd3_4.png

The counterpart to Government Buildings is Private Industries. The vast majority of Buildings in Victoria 3 fall under this category, which includes a broad range of industries such as (non-subsistence!) farms, plantations, mines and factories. Unlike Government Buildings, Private Industries are not owned by the state but rather by Pops such as Capitalists and Aristocrats, who reap the profits they bring in and pay wages to the other Pops working there (usually at least - under certain economic systems the ownership of buildings may be radically different!).

Many of these buildings are limited by locally available resources such as Arable Land for agriculture and simply how much iron is available in the state for Iron Mines. Urban Buildings such as Factories however, are only limited by how many people you can cram into the state, simulating the more densely populated nature of cities. In short, there is no system of building ‘slots’ or anything like that, as we want limitations on buildings to function in a sensible and realistic way.


Several different types of Private Industries are shown below
dd3_5.png

Finally there are Development Buildings. These are often (but not always!) government buildings that distinguish themselves by providing vital state-level functions. A couple examples are Barracks that recruit and train soldiers from the local population and Railways that provide the Infrastructure other buildings need to bring their goods to the Market.


From left to right: Barracks, Port, Naval Bases and Railway
dd3_6.png

To finish up this dev diary I just want to mention that building up your country is meant to be more of a hands-on experience in Victoria 3, as this is absolutely core to the society-building aspect of the game and forms a major part of the game’s core loop. This naturally also means that we need to give the player the necessary tools to manage their buildings in a large empire, which may involve some form of autonomous building construction, though we haven’t yet nailed down exactly what form that would take (and whether it will involve decision making on the part of the investor class). Ultimately though, we want the player, not the AI to be the one primarily in charge of the development of their own country.

Well, there you have it. There is of course a lot in here (such as Production Methods) that will receive further explanation in the many more dev diaries we have planned, so be sure to tune in next week as I talk about Goods. See you then!
 
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Yes, with the caveat that it's not as simple as 'if the climate allows it' since then half the world would be covered in opium potentials. We try to strike a balance between climate, farming traditions and what feels like it could have been a potential grow site during the Victorian era.
Transplanting potatoes from the New World all over Europe was a huge deal in the time period, and was at one time the only way to support a large population. It had a major impact on history and demographics all over the world. I hope the game will reflect that in some way.
 
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Enclosure systems didn't really preserve the peasant way of life that traditionalists/conservatives wanted, did they?
That's actually exactly what traditionalists and conservatives wanted. Enclosure systems are basically the manoralist agricultural property ownership that already existed that conservatives wanted to preserve.

Unless you're talking about like rural communes and stuff, which wanted to just not improve efficiency of agricultural production beyond subsistence so would then just be choosing to not make agriculture more effective or building agricultural buildings at all and keep it with subsistence farming only.
 
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Do you have any quotes for the fact that Pops themselves are grouped by state and not province? Factories are are built by state in Vicky 2 as well, but pops were separated by pronvince, which is smaller than a state, so it would be odd if they removed this for Vicky 3.
tl;dr: Remember that we represent every individual workplace in each state as well, so we actually have substantially more granularity to Pop "location" than in previous titles.



We do actually! With respect to the USA, each current US state corresponds exactly to one named state region in the game (although in some cases state regions can split into multiple states owned by different countries.) Pops can move freely within workplaces in their state, while they need to undergo migration in order to move between states.

With respect to granularity though, there's really no downside to having Pops be able to move freely within their state rather than having to migrate between a handful of provinces within the same state as in previous titles. We still represent the urban/rural divide by permitting many, many different types of industry in each state, including both manufacturing and resource industries (as opposed to one static "RGO" per province) and service/governmental/infrastructure/military workplaces. These different industries and workplaces are visually grouped on the map such that you can see the urbanization and growth of some parts of your state compared to others.
I just found out about this as well. This is highly concerning.
 
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Yeah, you can have numerous different mines, plantations, etc as potentials that you can exploit in the same state. As long as you have the people to work it and the infrastructure to support it, of course.
The question you responded to started off with, "So a single RGO per province as a concept is dead?" Multiple RGO's per PROVINCE, which was not possible in V2. But your answer was about states having multiple RGO's -- which they already could have in V2. So you didn't seem to answer the question.
 
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I just found out about this as well. This is highly concerning.
That's actually much better than it was before, since smaller states like Delaware, Connecticut, New Hampshire, and even Utah didn't exist as their own states in Victoria 2 and it sounds like they will exist in Victoria 3.
 
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The question you responded to started off with, "So a single RGO per province as a concept is dead?" Multiple RGO's per PROVINCE, which was not possible in V2. But your answer was about states having multiple RGO's -- which they already could have in V2. So you didn't seem to answer the question.
Building are on a state level, so you literally can't have RGO's in provinces.
 
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I just found out about this as well. This is highly concerning.
Keep in mind that pops who work at different workplaces are different pops, and the part you quoted at least implies that they track location of workplaces (buildings) at the province level. This would make sense for rendering buildings and cities on the map.

Now, if they wanted to track say, the peasants working in subsistence farms on the east side of the state are a different ethnicity than the peasants working the subsistence farms on the west side of the state, they would need to specify exactly which subset of buildings a pop is working. Not clear right now if they do.
 
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Urban Buildings such as Factories however, are only limited by how many people you can cram into the state, simulating the more densely populated nature of cities. In short, there is no system of building ‘slots’ or anything like that, as we want limitations on buildings to function in a sensible and realistic way.
Oh god yes no more slots, YESSS YEESSSSS!!!
 
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One interesting thought I had with bureaucrats now consuming paper. Since the game runs up to the 1930s, it would be interesting to have a late game tech for very early computerization that would begin to reduce the amount of paper consumed per bureaucracy but make government administration start requiring maybe electric gear or telephones/radios.
Did early computers of the time period reduce the use of paper? Early computers, such as Herman Hollerith’s mechanical calculator, invented to automate the 1890 US census after the 1880 census took eight years to tabulate by hand, ran on paper punch cards until the 1960s. There was as of yet no electronic storage. Replacing letters and telegrams with telephone or radio conversations might have saved some paper, but how much, and would this mainly affect bureaucracies?
 
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Building are on a state level, so you literally can't have RGO's in provinces.
But RGOs are defined by the land and resources available and that appears to be on a province level, so while there are not discrete RGO instances per province, the ability of the RGO to employ people is calculated at a per province level.
 
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In my opinion, everything is awesome, apart from this:
To finish up this dev diary I just want to mention that building up your country is meant to be more of a hands-on experience in Victoria 3, as this is absolutely core to the society-building aspect of the game and forms a major part of the game’s core loop. This naturally also means that we need to give the player the necessary tools to manage their buildings in a large empire, which may involve some form of autonomous building construction, though we haven’t yet nailed down exactly what form that would take (and whether it will involve decision making on the part of the investor class). Ultimately though, we want the player, not the AI to be the one primarily in charge of the development of their own country.
Personally, I'd much rather let the AI investors (in free market countries)/AI planning committee (in planned economy countries) build the actual buildings, while I would oversee this from the strategic viewpoint, by giving e.g. tax cuts to investors in the free market case to encourage the industries I want, and setting some broad goals for the planning committee in the planned economy case.

At the core of Vicky (as stated in the design goals) is simulation, and this would go a long way towards giving this real simulation feel. And there is plenty to do in the game besides deciding on the placement of the individual buildings, anyway. I just don't think that it's the correct conduit of the player agency in this game. Especially since some countries can be very large, as mentioned in the DD; but in contrast to what was said in the DD, I'd rather see this automation as a core feature (with other features like tax cuts being built around it) rather than a crutch used for large countries.

And to people saying that the AI is terrible at placing buildings (like it was in Vic2), I say: 1) in all other countries the AI will have to do it anyway, so it better be not that terrible and 2) the AI being somewhat terrible (though not to the Vic2 extent) is perfectly realistic, as in the real world investors and planning committees often make dumb decisions.
 
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But RGOs are defined by the land and resources available and that appears to be on a province level, so while there are not discrete RGO instances per province, the ability of the RGO to employ people is calculated at a per province level.
RGOs are on a state level:
We still represent the urban/rural divide by permitting many, many different types of industry in each state, including both manufacturing and resource industries (as opposed to one static "RGO" per province) and service/governmental/infrastructure/military workplaces.
 
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Masternachos

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I'm honestly loving how this is a Tropico 1 but at massive global scale. Serious comment.
*Presidente, your people starve! Grow more food, quickly!*
 
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OxfordNik

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Yep, you don't play as the government, you play as the 'spirit of the country'. It's hardly the only example of the player being able to do something that would be outside the purview or against the interest of the government in one of our games. That said, we've not completely set our mind on the investment pool as it works now and are discussing other ways we could do it.
Wouldn't it be a good use of Authority to direct the development of certain types of industries in certain areas, in the way National Focus (if I'm remembering the term correctly, it's been a whole since I've booted up Vicky 2) could have been useful?

That way, the investment pool could be steered by the player to develop the sorts of industries that they could like to see (perhaps in a more granular way than in Vicky 2, as it sounds as though there'll be many more types of goods to play with?), without the risk of randomness that an RNG-driven - or even heavily scripted - investment pool might otherwise present?
 
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mikhail321

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I understand that while buildings are constructed the pops labor required to do it will effectively be employed in "construction industry". What happens when there is nothing being built? Are those pops become unemployed? How long does it take to recruit pops to work in construction when the new building is needed? Intuitively, it seems it might be advantageous to maintain stable construction industry, but how can it be done without excessive micromanagement?
Adding residential construction would be a solution
 
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aantia

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We do not currently have any system for losing yields over time, but the use of fertilizer is for sure a big deal in making your agriculture more efficient in Victoria 3.
That raises an interesting question: the Victorians loved putting lime on fields as a cure-all, regardless of whether it would actually improve that particular field's chemistry. Would that sort of incorrect-in-hindsight 'advance' be represented the way the people of the time thought it worked, or how it actually did? Or are you just going to have a policy of sidestepping nuisance issues like that?
 

Cagallo

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Yep, you don't play as the government, you play as the 'spirit of the country'. It's hardly the only example of the player being able to do something that would be outside the purview or against the interest of the government in one of our games. That said, we've not completely set our mind on the investment pool as it works now and are discussing other ways we could do it.
This is important (and fine with me) and you may need to make this narrative more prominent in your game PR.
 
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Skales

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While I think this is a reasonable way to represent subsistence farming early game, is there any way to improve the effectiveness of such buildings, or are they fated to forever be the Vic3 equivalent of clerks? I'm thinking mainly about how one might represent the traditionalist/conservative programs to modernize but maintain the peasant way of life in Eastern Europe and Asia.

Woah, based