• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #3 - Buildings

ThumbnailTemplate_1920x1080.png

Hello again everyone! It’s Thursday again, and that means that it’s time to talk about Buildings. Buildings are a core mechanic of Victoria 3, as it is where the Pops work to produce resources such as Goods. Buildings represent a wide range of industries, businesses and government functions, from humble subsistence farms to complex motor industries and sprawling financial districts. In this dev diary, we’re going to broadly cover the main types of buildings and their function in Victoria 3.

To talk about buildings though, I first have to mention states! States are a concept that should be generally familiar to anyone who’s played some of our other games such as Victoria II or Hearts of Iron IV - a geographic unit of varying size in which much of Victoria 3’s gameplay takes place. States are where Pops live and (more importantly for our subject matter) where Buildings are located and built.

The State of Götaland in Sweden
dd3_1.png

We will return to states more in later dev diaries, but for now let’s keep talking about Buildings!

Before we start on Buildings, something that’s important to note is that Buildings are just places where Pops can work and generally do not represent a single building - a single level of Government Administration, for example, represents the necessary buildings and infrastructure to support a certain number of Bureaucrats. Buildings always need qualified pops to work in them to yield any benefit, and an empty building is just that - empty and completely useless. This holds true even for buildings like Railroads and Ports that did not need Pops to work in them in Victoria 2.

Most buildings are directly constructed, but some (like the Subsistence Buildings below) will appear automatically based on certain conditions. When Buildings are constructed, the construction uses Pop labor and goods, and the costs involved will be subject to market forces.

But onto the different building types! First out, we have Subsistence Buildings. These are a special type of highly inefficient Buildings that cannot manually be built or destroyed, but rather will appear anywhere in the world where there is Arable Land that isn’t being used for another type of building. The vast majority of the world’s population starts the game ‘working’ in subsistence buildings as Peasants, and much of the game’s industrialization process is about finding more productive employment for your Peasants.


Peasants eke out a meager living in these Subsistence Farms, contributing little to GDP and taxes per capita
dd3_2.png

Another special type of building is Urban Centers. Like Subsistence Buildings, these are automatically created rather than built, with the level of Urban Center in a State being tied to the amount of Urbanization generated by its other buildings. Urban Centers primarily employ Shopkeepers and provide a number of important local functions that we will get into at a later point.


The Urban Center is where you’ll find most of your middle-class Shopkeepers
dd3_3.png

Next up we have Government Buildings. These are buildings that are fully funded by the state (ie, you!) and provide crucial civil services required for the smooth running of a Victorian nation. Examples include Government Administrations where Bureaucrats produce Bureaucracy for the administration of incorporated states and funding of Institutions, and Universities where Academics produce Innovation for technological progression.


Bureaucrats work in Government Administrations to provide Bureaucracy - the lifeblood of the government
dd3_4.png

The counterpart to Government Buildings is Private Industries. The vast majority of Buildings in Victoria 3 fall under this category, which includes a broad range of industries such as (non-subsistence!) farms, plantations, mines and factories. Unlike Government Buildings, Private Industries are not owned by the state but rather by Pops such as Capitalists and Aristocrats, who reap the profits they bring in and pay wages to the other Pops working there (usually at least - under certain economic systems the ownership of buildings may be radically different!).

Many of these buildings are limited by locally available resources such as Arable Land for agriculture and simply how much iron is available in the state for Iron Mines. Urban Buildings such as Factories however, are only limited by how many people you can cram into the state, simulating the more densely populated nature of cities. In short, there is no system of building ‘slots’ or anything like that, as we want limitations on buildings to function in a sensible and realistic way.


Several different types of Private Industries are shown below
dd3_5.png

Finally there are Development Buildings. These are often (but not always!) government buildings that distinguish themselves by providing vital state-level functions. A couple examples are Barracks that recruit and train soldiers from the local population and Railways that provide the Infrastructure other buildings need to bring their goods to the Market.


From left to right: Barracks, Port, Naval Bases and Railway
dd3_6.png

To finish up this dev diary I just want to mention that building up your country is meant to be more of a hands-on experience in Victoria 3, as this is absolutely core to the society-building aspect of the game and forms a major part of the game’s core loop. This naturally also means that we need to give the player the necessary tools to manage their buildings in a large empire, which may involve some form of autonomous building construction, though we haven’t yet nailed down exactly what form that would take (and whether it will involve decision making on the part of the investor class). Ultimately though, we want the player, not the AI to be the one primarily in charge of the development of their own country.

Well, there you have it. There is of course a lot in here (such as Production Methods) that will receive further explanation in the many more dev diaries we have planned, so be sure to tune in next week as I talk about Goods. See you then!
 
  • 458Like
  • 204Love
  • 24
  • 17
  • 10
  • 1Haha
Reactions:

Alfred Dreyfus

Second Lieutenant
On Probation
May 27, 2021
191
1.641
Ah, thanks, definitely kills my hype but it's good to know. I can understand why they took this route from a performance/accessibility perspective, but there are just some things that can't be represented without province granularity (different cultures in different geographies within a state, population density, etc.). I can see they're trying to represent that partially with urbanization, but I can't see how it will work realistically in practice (eg. how would demographic differences be represented between two cities in the same state). And if we're talking about splitting states, wouldn't this just mean a fixed percentage of pops would be transfered to the new state? So taking part of the Mojave would create a desert metropolis with a portion of the pops from San Francisco?

Overall I like some of the things I'm hearing, but stuff like this seems like changes for the worse.
Yeah, I always use the state of California as an example to complain about this design decision.

The game should definitely difference between POPs and buildings in San Francisco than the ones from the rest of California, for example.
 
  • 19
  • 1
Reactions:

Meanmanturbo

General
91 Badges
May 19, 2008
2.263
5.417
  • Sengoku
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • For the Motherland
  • Deus Vult
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Victoria 2
One thing that I'm still not able to understand is what is the GDP % in the state screen (I know what is GDP). Usually GDP is expressed in absolute economic value. Does it refer to annual growth? (24% increase is HUGE.) Does it refer to the proportion of that state over the country? (if this, I guess it can be useful and less abstract than an absolute number in pounds, but it will be constantly varying up/down depending on the expansion of your country and may be misleading -- the state GDP is growing but its regional % is decreasing because you are adding new states)

Also, cheers to all the devs. Don't let the pressure from all the forum doomers to derail your plans. Wouldn't like to be in your place, though!

Now this me answering without know what comes later in the thread but I'm pretty sure it is as you suspected, state gdp as a % of country gdp. Saw in the previous dev diary screenshots that sweden had 5 states, and I know for sure that the northenest state will have a very low population, so 24% would fit nicely in Swedens probably 2nd most popus state.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Stein14

Captain
101 Badges
Mar 19, 2019
480
1.627
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • War of the Vikings
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Surviving Mars
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Victoria 2
I understand that while buildings are constructed the pops labor required to do it will effectively be employed in "construction industry". What happens when there is nothing being built? Are those pops become unemployed? How long does it take to recruit pops to work in construction when the new building is needed? Intuitively, it seems it might be advantageous to maintain stable construction industry, but how can it be done without excessive micromanagement?

I think the Pops build smaller things. Or renew old buildings. Such a trip doesn't last forever, renovation is the order of the day.
 

Spartakusbund

Banned
75 Badges
Oct 7, 2016
1.496
7.039
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
Now this me answering without know what comes later in the thread but I'm pretty sure it is as you suspected, state gdp as a % of country gdp. Saw in the previous dev diary screenshots that sweden had 5 states, and I know for sure that the northenest state will have a very low population, so 24% would fit nicely in Swedens probably 2nd most popus state.
It confused me for a second because I thought it was Gotland and not Gotaland and I thought 24% seemed a bit high.
 

wilcoxchar

Field Marshal
98 Badges
Nov 15, 2004
5.114
17.647
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
To expand on the computerization and paper use point a bit, paper usage has expanded with personal computer use because the efficiency and reduction of paper use *per job* has not outpaced the explosion of how many people and how many jobs using computers there has been. Which in Victoria terms would be a massive increase in the number of bureaucrats and service jobs outpacing the increased efficiency computerization would give you because, say, with increased efficiency you can afford to incorporate more states and build government administration buildings, but then those buildings fill up with even more bureaucrats which ends up consuming more overall paper. Especially since this is just early computerization being used for things like census tabulation (see early IBM and Watson the person not the machine), it would probably be limited to government administration and maybe universities or financial districts but even that might be stretching it a bit too much out of the game's timeframe for how early computers were regularly used.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Simon_the_digger

Sergeant
67 Badges
Aug 10, 2016
63
226
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
@Wizzington I love everything so far, but I have one big concern so far that mostly pertains to buildings.

I found that the biggest thing that sets the victoria 2 economy apart from other strategy games is the high-speed, survival-of-the-fittest competition between factories.

Having to adjust your economic circumstances to make sure your industries were economically viable was huge, and flavorful. Struggling to get a new industry off the ground because of another producer making them cheaper, or a different industry using the raw goods was VERY cool.

My biggest fear by far is that this will be lost in Victoria 3; is high-pace competition (for consumers and inputs alike) and factories putting each other out of business going to be on the table in Victoria 3? And if so, to what degree, if any, is it toned down from Victoria 2?
 
Last edited:
  • 3
  • 2Like
Reactions:

SS Boss

For the Empire
79 Badges
Oct 3, 2011
129
475
  • BATTLETECH
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
I get that the player is not the monarch/president/prime minister. But it seems to me that the player can't interact directly with pops. We will only be able to nudge the pops in the desired direction.
According to this logic, at least for me, it is not reasonable to control all of the investment. Because there is a nuanced economic system that generates the investment pool. It is the savings, a part of the wealth of the pops.

I think we shouldn't be able to spend the money of pops directly, whereas we can't interact directly with the pops.
For frew market systems, there should only be incentives to influence how the investment pool is used - as it would be as indirect as the other systems.

I think the pops will have influence on what you can build with the investment pool, so its not like you can make build decisions outside the pop context, but in the end you'll make that decision instead of watching everything building and funding itself.
 
  • 4Like
  • 1
Reactions:

ABQGhostdog

Private
70 Badges
Jun 16, 2017
19
95
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
I wonder, what if there was automatically generated projects that the capitalists could fund with contributions to the investment pool, but I as the state could propose projects that the investors could choose to back? Maybe there could be more capitalists supporting suggested projects if capitalist interest group is supporting government representing industrialists working with a government they support?
While I personally am cautiously ok with having full control over "private" investment, I can fully understand why so many people are so upset with Liberal Economies being almost functionally Identical to command economies considering this is the golden age of liberal economies massively outcompeting all other economic systems
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Meanmanturbo

General
91 Badges
May 19, 2008
2.263
5.417
  • Sengoku
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • For the Motherland
  • Deus Vult
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Victoria 2
I understand that while buildings are constructed the pops labor required to do it will effectively be employed in "construction industry". What happens when there is nothing being built? Are those pops become unemployed? How long does it take to recruit pops to work in construction when the new building is needed? Intuitively, it seems it might be advantageous to maintain stable construction industry, but how can it be done without excessive micromanagement?

I was hoping pops, or at the verly least urban centers requre some construction constantly. Boom and bust is par for the course in the construction bussiness butit would be nice if it didn't just totaly die if you didn't build something for a while.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Being Earnest

Second Lieutenant
40 Badges
Jan 26, 2009
119
87
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
Yes, subsistence farms produce a small surplus, most of Peasants' labor is self-sustaining though so they're only marginally integrated into the wider economy.
Sorry. I should have been clear in my question. Do subsistence farms produce a trade good, or do they generate cash directly without selling anything on the market?
 
Last edited:
  • 2
Reactions:

MajorBandgeek

Private
57 Badges
Jan 26, 2016
24
58
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
Yeah, I always use the state of California as an example to complain about this design decision.

The game should definitely difference between POPs and buildings in San Francisco than the ones from the rest of California, for example.
I really want to echo this sentiment. Not only does it not work on the build up of the "frontier" of the Americas, but state-wide POP tracking I'm afraid makes Old-World tracking of racial minorities and such too abstracted. For a time when the map would be redrawn based on whether or not a village was speaking X language or Y, states just cannot quite accomplish that. I can't really think of a work around without per province tracking
 
  • 11
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:

orc4hire

First Lieutenant
31 Badges
May 12, 2001
247
1.368
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
I'm gonna wait until we see the investment pool stuff to make any judgement on that. Definitely a good idea to put more control in players hands (as long as it's not a micromanaging slog)
This, of course, is part of the problem. Players say they want more control, but when given it they complain about the micromanagement required for all that control.
 
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:

AlleyTheToaster

Holy Kiser
79 Badges
Feb 25, 2015
580
528
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • BATTLETECH
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
"range of industries such as (non-subsistence!) farms, plantations, mines and factories. Unlike Government Buildings, Private Industries are not owned by the state but rather by Pops such as Capitalists and Aristocrats"

What if I install communist government? In that case it's much owned by the government.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Zalthor

Sergeant
41 Badges
Jun 3, 2017
53
181
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
"range of industries such as (non-subsistence!) farms, plantations, mines and factories. Unlike Government Buildings, Private Industries are not owned by the state but rather by Pops such as Capitalists and Aristocrats"

What if I install communist government? In that case it's much owned by the government.
Then you wouldn't have private enterprise; everything would be owned by the state and go into your coffers.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Tissaia

Private
47 Badges
Dec 4, 2019
15
22
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
Have I missed something? What about state owned industries?
And yes, I noticed "under certain economic systems the ownership of buildings may be radically different", but you don't need to be communist to have e.g. state owned oil industry or mines.
 
  • 4
Reactions:

BrytonJSwan

hatched from an egg from the bottom of the sea
57 Badges
Apr 2, 2015
432
2.724
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
This, of course, is part of the problem. Players say they want more control, but when given it they complain about the micromanagement required for all that control.
You can have a system that's complex and detailed and involves a lot of player decisions while also giving players the proper tools to manipulate those systems to make them manageable. It can be done!
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions: