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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #28 - Flags

16_9.jpg

Hi folks, welcome to another dev diary, and get hyped for what I know you're longing for: flags. I'm Ofaloaf, one of the designers on the game, and somehow they let me write a dev diary. Let's go!

Let's start at the beginning. What is a flag?

20211201_103509_sm.jpg

A flag is a thing of beauty.
A flag is a decorative design on a bit of fabric, often used to communicate something, such as a message or identity, to the viewer. In Victoria 3, all flags are flags associated with countries. They're neat designs that serve as visual shorthand for a state, and they just look pretty too, most of the time.

orange free state.PNG

In the Victorian era, what counts as the flag of a country was a bit… vague, depending on who you were asking. Some countries, like the United States and France, very clearly had a single flag that served as the national flag that everybody knew them by, but others weren't so clear.

Look - here's some period examples of what people considered Russia's flag to be:

Selection from 'The maritime flags of all nations', 1832, as seen on Wikimedia Commons
The_maritime_flags_of_all_nations,_1832_(FOL_LA_ROQ_1542_NOR)_croppo.jpg


Selection from 'Pavillons et cocardes des principales puissances du globe d'apres des documens officials', 1850, as seen in the David Rumsey Map Collection.
russie.png

First thing that's noticeable is that it's not just one flag. The tricolor that is used as the Russian Federation's flag now was just one of several in use in the 19th century up through to the 1850s, as a merchant flag or civil ensign used to identify civilian ships in foreign ports. The Romanov dynasty's emblem is also used as a Russian flag, and then there's two naval jacks - the flags with the blue saltires or diagonal crosses stretching across them- which are also widely recognized. Eventually, the Russian government started trying to consolidate everything and issued a decree on June 23rd, 1858, proclaiming a single "state flag", a black-gold-white tricolor. In 1883, the white-blue-red "merchant" flag was officially accepted as a national flag to be used on special occasions, and in 1896 it wholly replaced the black-gold-white tricolor as Russia's state flag.

Man, ain't that a doozy of flags to pick from! How are we supposed to pick which one to use in Victoria 3? Well, good news there - we can use more than one flag! We got dynamic flags triggered by script!

russianflags.png

Any trigger which is valid for a country, like checking if a specific state is owned by the player or if a war is happening, can be used to trigger a different flag in the game. We've used that to spice up flag varieties in different situations - for example, a united Scandinavian monarchy has a different flag depending on whether the Danes are in charge or not:

scandinavia.png

Spicy! And that's on top of just using the usual checks like governments, the number of states in a country, and so forth - right, yes, you probably want to see the stars in the American flag, don't you? I know I do. They do change based on the number of states in the Union.

I can taste the freedom.
freedom.png

There's even some unique flags for when one country becomes the puppet of another. In some cases, a generic "oh no I am a puppet now" design is used for the puppeted country's flag with the "master" country's flag inserted as a canton in the upper-left corner of the puppeted country's flag, while in other cases a wholly unique flag is made for a particular combination of puppeteer and puppet.

puppeteer and puppet.png

There's also a sort of fallback system, to provide flags for every polity even if we can't really settle on one particular design, or if they're feisty dynamic rebels, or what-have-you. Flags can be randomly generated, with particular triggers set so some flag elements only appear if a tag is of a particular culture, religion, or ideology, among other things.

randomflags.png

And, for the modders out there, it shouldn't be difficult for you folks to put together more flags if you want (and of course you want to make more flags, right?) - we use a system similar to the one Crusader King 3 uses for its coats of arms. France's default flag is a simple example of how the system works:

Code:
FRA = {
    pattern = "pattern_solid.tga"
    color1 = "blue"

    colored_emblem = {
        texture = "ce_tricolor_vertical.dds"
        color1 = "white"
        color2 = "red"
    }
}

All that's going on there is that a plain blue field is set as the background, and then a single graphical element with the central third and right third of the tricolor as colorable sections is slapped on top, with white and red respectively added in there to make a nice and tidy blue-white-red tricolore. Magnifique!

And to plug that bad boy into the game, all you need is a little scripting in another file that goes a little something like this:

Code:
FRA = { # France
    flag_definition = {
        coa = FRA
        subject_canton = FRA
        allow_overlord_canton = yes
        coa_with_overlord_canton = FRA_subject        
        priority = 1
    }
    flag_definition = {
        coa = FRA
        subject_canton = FRA
        allow_overlord_canton = yes        
        overlord_canton_scale = { 0.337 0.337 }            
        priority = 10
        trigger = { 
            coa_def_republic_flag_trigger = yes
        }
    }
    [And so forth. Find more flags by playing the game!]    
}

You can create as many flag definitions as you like, and you can plug the same flag design into multiple definitions or make a unique one for every definition if you want to go insane scripting it all up. Triggers are straightforward to plug in (and you can script generic triggers if you don't want to write the same combination of checks over and over again). If you want to mod flags, there's a delightful amount of flexibility with this system.

So there you have it! We got flags. We got lots of flags! We got randomized combinations of flags that go on for days! You could script more flags if you really want to poke at the game's innards! Flags.

Now, as we march towards the Holiday season, the dev diaries are taking a bit of a break. We will be back in January with a brand new topic in our first dev diary for 2022. Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year!
 
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Yes, but not with the sildesalat, have we? It came mod century. Both the Norwegian one and the Swedish one.
Right okay sorry yeah I just went back to check and the version of the Swedish flag we saw just has the little red and white cross in the corner of the Swedish flag, sorry about that
 
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This is purely hypocritical. Why are certain symbols making it and other certain symbols don't? Huh? Who desides that? For example, in my country, Ukraine, both nazi AND soviet symbols are banned, but for some reason this game will still include them, choosing what, not to potentially violate German law but potantially violating Ukrainian law? Because what, Germany is more important than Ukraine? As I said, pure hypocrisy.
The hammer and sickle is banned in Germany, too, but Germany doesn't have the same reputation for vigorous enforcement against Communist iconography that it does against Nazi iconography.

(Also: there are fewer Ukrainians than Germans, and Ukrainians have a lot less money than Germans, so making your product illegal to sell in Ukraine has much less impact on your bottom line than making your product illegal to sell in Germany.)
 
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The hammer and sickle is banned in Germany, too, but Germany doesn't have the same reputation for vigorous enforcement against Communist iconography that it does against Nazi iconography.

(Also: there are fewer Ukrainians than Germans, and Ukrainians have a lot less money than Germans, so making your product illegal to sell in Ukraine has much less impact on your bottom line than making your product illegal to sell in Germany.)
The hammer and sickle isn’t banned, just the former East German flag. But I don’t think that law is actually enforced, and is just a hold over from former West German law.
 
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The hammer and sickle isn’t banned, just the former East German flag. But I don’t think that law is actually enforced, and is just a hold over from former West German law.
Aha, thank you for the clarification. I was reading from a summary that said "Communist symbols" and there's nothing more iconically Communist than the hammer and sickle :)
 
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Right okay sorry yeah I just went back to check and the version of the Swedish flag we saw just has the little red and white cross in the corner of the Swedish flag, sorry about that
No problem :)

For the record, this is the sildesalat flags:

Norwegian:
1639758348775.png


Swedish:
1639758370204.png


Widipedia article with more examples:

It was meant as a sign of everlasting friendship between the two people of the Swedish-Norwegian realm, but was met with contempt at least in Norway and removing the "stain" was a big issue for the independence minded in Norway.
 
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Both Norway and Sweden can get Sildesalaten variants, but they don't start with them in 1836.
That's excellent news! But, if one get it, shouldn't both get it at the same time?
 
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To me, the England-Scotland answer is pretty clear. Any country tag Great Britain will combine the two, so if one country should secede, rump-GB would retain the union flag, until and unless it should become a tag other than GB.

To a certain extent, I think it depends on how the country in question seceded and whether the secession was legally recognized by the rest of the union. If, say, Scotland or Ireland had rebelled and managed to enforce its independence, it's very unlikely the British government would have recognized the new government as legitimate and continued to view the country as part of the union.

If Britain itself had been taken over by some kind of ultra-radical government and the regions had been voluntarily granted national sovereignty, obviously everyone would just replaced the union flag with their national flags.

What if England secceedes from the UK?

Realistically, if England secedes from the UK, the union ceases to exist. The union is not a federation in which all parties are equal, England is politically dominant within the British union (particularly in the 19th century, it's worth remembering that the 18th century version of the song that became the national anthem has an extra verse about crushing the Scots). That is why England doesn't have its own regional government even today. The English government is the British government.

I think the only way this might not happen is if England seceded and abolished the monarchy. In that case, it's possible loyalists in the other regions would continue to see their allegiance as to the monarchy rather than to the English/British government and want to remain in a union without England (probably with the goal of eventually restoring the monarchy to England).
 
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Looks Great!
If I remember correctly, there was a unique Fascist and Communist flag for every single tag in the game in Vicky 2, despite the majority of the tags having negligible fascist or communist movements historically. Do you plan on trying to do that again?
Will (God forbid) a Fascist or Communist USA be able to use the star-adding mechanic?
 
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The Eureka flag (the flag of a bunch of people that had a mini-rebellion at Eureka in the Vicky time period) is quite popular these days, but flags aren't my thing, and the Australian republican movement wouldn't have been very strong back then so I'm not aware of another alternative - but I'm not hugely into flags (and the flags I'm most into, which I'm sure will come as no surprise, are naval/mercantile ensigns and maritime signalling flags :) ).

char(86)
char(73)
char(67)
char(75)
char(89)
char(51)
char(76)
char(79)
char(79)
char(75)
char(83)
char(65)
char(87)
char(69)
char(83)
char(79)
char(77)
char(69)


Note: the above is based on a quick web translator, and will almost definitely use modern conventions (it looks like it's using current NATO codes - and straight letters, no codebook malarkey). The flags in use during the Vicky period would have been similar, but the systems were less refined, and often had less flags (not necessarily one for every letter of the alphabet, instead using combinations of flags and a codebook). I'm not quite crazy enough to dig up a period-apropriate codebook and post something up :p
VICKY3LOOKSAWESOME

I remember wondering why Mr. Krabs had a Scottish flag in his office, back in my youth.
 
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I was thinking a lot of this flag thing yesterday...

I hope we can get variations of the Soviet Union flag.

I'm already waiting for the pre-order button to come out when the moment comes.
 
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Jamaican Castle

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I guess not because Brazil's flag is a bit more complicated, as iirc they mirror the position of real-life stars in the night sky.
That's not necessarily a deal-breaker; if I'm understanding correctly, the star positions are authored by hand for each combination, not auto-generated, so it should be possible to form constellations in any configuration you want. (You'd have to determine symbolically appropriate constellations for each number of course...)
 
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That's not necessarily a deal-breaker; if I'm understanding correctly, the star positions are authored by hand for each combination, not auto-generated, so it should be possible to form constellations in any configuration you want. (You'd have to determine symbolically appropriate constellations for each number of course...)
I think the star positions for the US flag are determined by math for combinations up to 100. Without trying hard I could make a basic script to do so. With Brazil's flag you would have to choose all the positions that the stars would ultimately occupy, code them in by hand, and decide what order they get added, but it is probably doable.

(The script would, essentially, take the square root of the number of stars, round it up to get how many stars in a row, divide the number of stars by the stars in a row and round up to get stars in a column, and then fill the columns starting near the middle and going out.)
 
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Theocracies are not necessarily caliphates or republics so I would hope no.

The orientalisation of Islamic countries in the Paradox community is absolutely rife.
Especially when other examples of theocratic Islamic states already exist at the start of the game's time period in the West African Imamates.
 
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Looks Great!
If I remember correctly, there was a unique Fascist and Communist flag for every single tag in the game in Vicky 2, despite the majority of the tags having negligible fascist or communist movements historically. Do you plan on trying to do that again?
Will (God forbid) a Fascist or Communist USA be able to use the star-adding mechanic?
A Communist USA could have a similar star-adding mechanic with different flag colours.
It's debatable whether or not a Fascist USA government would have a flag change to begin with.
Especially when other examples of theocratic Islamic states already exist at the start of the game's time period in the West African Imamates.
Weren't those hereditary though? The distinction between 'theocracy' and 'monarchy' is largely reflective of Catholic ecclesiastical governments like the Papal State (and even those are technically monarchies where a religious leader is simultaneously acting as a temporal ruler); for a lot of religions (specifically those with hereditary priesthoods and the such) a 'theocratic' government is usually just a monarchy with a different flavour.
 
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I think the star positions for the US flag are determined by math for combinations up to 100.
Judging by what Wizz said, I think they're positioned by hand:

Yes and no. Each variant has to be scripted with properly positioned elements, but it's a lot less work than making and exporting an entire new flag image as you really just have to add and position the correct number of star elements.

You could write a script that would write those script files for you mathematically (and if I had to do a hundred of the things I'd seriously consider it) but you could go back and touch them up manually, or do special arrangements for certain numbers.

(Wasn't there a proposed US flag where the stars were, themselves, arranged in a star pattern? I don't recall how many it was supposed to be.)
 
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Duarte

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Weren't those hereditary though? The distinction between 'theocracy' and 'monarchy' is largely reflective of Catholic ecclesiastical governments like the Papal State (and even those are technically monarchies where a religious leader is simultaneously acting as a temporal ruler); for a lot of religions (specifically those with hereditary priesthoods and the such) a 'theocratic' government is usually just a monarchy with a different flavour.
A bit more complicated than that, theoretically the absolute minimun requierment is that they must be of the kin group of the previous ruler ( depending on branch of islam this can mean allot of things) this means that while all rulers therefore belong to the same dynasty, succession follows no set rule, tradtionaly being decided by council (also composed by menbers of the kin group) now as you rightly implied that by 1836 (in fact long before that to be accurate) the (Sunni) Ottoman caliphate was heredetary, but consider that other branches of Islam (not to mention potential other religions) either reject the familial connotation entirely or belive in other more weirder succession types ( the dalai lama says hi) more than justifies the existence of a theocracy government type

P.S I only noticed that yuo where making a generelaist claim as opposed to one specific to islamic caliphates after having writen the whole thing, so sorry for the out of left field focus of the answer, tough i still believes it holds.)
 
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Leoreth

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To a certain extent, I think it depends on how the country in question seceded and whether the secession was legally recognized by the rest of the union. If, say, Scotland or Ireland had rebelled and managed to enforce its independence, it's very unlikely the British government would have recognized the new government as legitimate and continued to view the country as part of the union.
Game mechanics wise "secede" usually means winning some war of independence that ends with the suzerain signing a peace treaty that includes recognition. Unrecognised secession in paradox games is just a bunch of rebels occupying territory, not a new tag.
I think the star positions for the US flag are determined by math for combinations up to 100. Without trying hard I could make a basic script to do so. With Brazil's flag you would have to choose all the positions that the stars would ultimately occupy, code them in by hand, and decide what order they get added, but it is probably doable.

(The script would, essentially, take the square root of the number of stars, round it up to get how many stars in a row, divide the number of stars by the stars in a row and round up to get stars in a column, and then fill the columns starting near the middle and going out.)
That's not how all historical US flag configurations worked. In fact that's not how the current 50 states flag works. There's always some arbitrariness when the number of states isn't composed of two factors that are sufficiently close.
 
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