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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #26 - Peace Deals


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Hello and welcome back to another Victoria 3 development diary! Last week we wrapped up our dev diaries on War, and now we’ll be bringing both Diplomacy and War to a close (for the being, that is) by talking about (appropriately enough) how to negotiate an end to one of your wars. We’re of course not done talking about warfare and will return to the topic at a later point, but for now, let’s talk peace.

So, let’s say you launched that diplomatic play to get the Dutch colony you’ve been eyeing for years thinking that you’d have it in the bag, all the way up until the French decided to back them up and you found yourself dragged into a bloody and costly conflict that you now want nothing more than to get out of. What do you do?

There’s actually two different ways of making peace in Victoria 3: Capitulating and Negotiating Peace. However, before we explain how these work, we first need to explain a crucial mechanic to all forms of peace-making: War Support.

War Support is a measure of the political will in your country to continue fighting in a particular war, and goes from -100 to +100. Each country will start a war with a high degree of War Support (currently always 100, though we’re considering having it start on different levels based on how politically unified your country is), which declines over time. The factors that govern how quickly War Support drops include:
  • Having your territory occupied by the enemy
  • Pops dying and being wounded in battle and from attrition
  • Internal turmoil in your country, for example because your economy is worsening due to the war
  • Whether the enemy controls their War Goals

Siam is in a bad way in this war, losing more than 11 War Support every single week. Unless they can turn things around quickly, capitulation isn’t far away. As with the previous war dev diaries, please note that any numbers/interfaces/tooltips shown are very much not final!
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When their War Support hits -100, a country is forced to Capitulate. A country that Capitulates cedes all War Goals that are targeting them and gives up on all unpressed War Goals they were still holding. It’s also possible for most countries part of a war to choose to Capitulate at any time, even right after the war has broken out. This will immediately let them exit the war at the same cost outlined above, but may also incur a diplomatic penalty if the country capitulates early, especially if they had nothing to lose by doing so (as it would be seen as a cowardly betrayal of your allies). War Leaders are also able to Capitulate, and this doesn’t usually end the war, as they are only conceding War Goals targeting themselves and their subjects, and a new War Leader will be chosen to continue the fight on their side of the struggle. The only circumstance under which a Capitulation will end a War is if there are no War Goals left to fight over, which always results in an immediate end to hostilities.

However, it isn’t possible to simply attack a far-away country and force them to cede you distant lands simply by waiting for their War Support to tick down by itself. This is because any country that has a war goal targeting it which isn’t considered to be controlled by the enemy and still retains control of its own capital cannot have its War Support drop below 0. For example, let’s say that while playing as Brazil, you attack the Netherlands and demand they cede both Curacao and Guyana. You easily occupy Guyana but find that your navy is outmatched and you can’t land armies to take either Curacao or Amsterdam. As a result, you will be unable to force the Netherlands to Capitulate unless you actively choose to drop your War Goal on Curacao.

It’s possible to capitulate at any time during a war, even when it’s just started and War Support is at maximum - that it’s possible definitely doesn’t mean it’s a good idea, though!
DD26_2.png

So what then, of negotiated peace? This is quite a bit more complex than Capitulation, and can involve a whole host of countries that are part of the war. When making peace, countries involved in a war are split into three different categories:

War Leaders: This is the main participant on each side. War Leaders can propose peace deals and must ratify any proposed peace from the other War Leader in order for it to take effect.
Negotiators: This is any country that either holds a War Goal or has a War Goal targeting them and who are not one of the War Leaders. Negotiators must ratify any proposed peace deal from both the enemy and their own side in order for it to take effect.
Non-Negotiators: This is any country that doesn’t fall into the above two categories. They don’t play any active role in peace negotiations. Subjects whose Overlord is part of the war are also considered Non-Negotiators, as their Overlord negotiates on their behalf.

For a negotiated peace to happen, the War Leader on either side must first construct and propose a peace deal out of pressed War Goals. Unlike in many of our other Grand Strategy Games, peace deals in Victoria 3 isn’t necessarily just one side making demands - the War Leader can propose a mixed peace deal, in which War Goals are ceded from both sides. Once the War Leader is satisfied with the deal they’re proposing, they then send it out to both sides of the war for ratification.

This rebellion against Britain has turned into something of a brush war between the European Great Powers, with limited fighting in the colonies between Britain and its enemy France. War Support remains high, but if things take a bloodier turn both sides may find their populations quickly growing weary of the fighting.
DD26_3.png

That’s right - in order to have your proposed peace deal take effect, you need not just the enemy War Leader or even the enemy War Leader and Negotiators agree to it - all Negotiators on your own side must agree as well. This means that while you can try to cut a deal with your Dutch enemy to give you everything you want from them in exchange for selling out your ally Prussia, the likely answer to that from Prussia is going to be a firm and resounding ‘No’, at least so long as they aren’t truly desperate for a peace. However, if you’re willing to be fair about the whole thing and give up something of your own as well, they’re going to be more receptive to your proposals.

War Support plays a key role in determining what kind of peace deals the AI will agree to, with both their own and the enemy’s War Support factoring in: Even if their war support has dropped into the negative, the AI isn’t going to agree to a long list of demands from a country that is themselves a few weeks away from capitulating.

That’s all for today! Now that we’ve talked about Economy, Politics, Diplomacy and War, join us again next week as we cover a topic that touches on all of them - Technology!
 
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Is it possible for the scope of a war to be limited? I.e. Britain and France join on opposing sides of a war in America or Africa, but limit their forces to some support there only, instead of trying to ship troops over the channel and fight in Europe.

Beyond, huzzah for actual negotiation in the negotiations. (Can we have that for EU5, pretty please?)
EU5 should just be an extended timeline DLC for Victoria 3.
 
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Do defenders in conflicts get a bonus to war support?

For example if country A declares war on country B, and some territory is occupied, will country B's citizens have a rally around the flag effect from fighting a defensive war?

But let's say that country B pulls a surprise reversal and manages to counter-occupy some territory of country A...
Will the pops in country A demand a quicker end to an offensive war that is going badly?

Basically are any exhaustion modifiers biased towards favoring the defender over the attacker or vice-versa?
 
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First page, yaah !!!

This DD sound good.

Can war support increase? Lets say your general manages a great battle victory or you just occupy one target war goal provinces, shouldnt these accomplishements raise pops moral and war support?
 
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Is there any thought to add things like dismantling empires as a CB? HPM in Vic 2 has a version of this system, and it can be used after researching certain late game techs. Its implementation is a bit clunky, but in practice it divides almost all their colonies between the victors, along with returning many cores. Perhaps not this severe, but I'm wondering how this peace deal system will deal with late game Great Wars. Adding two dozen german african colonies to a peace deal seems like it might be rather a drag.
 
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Why does France or England simply not attack each other's homeland?
 
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Are we able to bring new war goals to negotiations? Can we divide war goals in smaller war goals?

I think we lack some granularity with war goals to have meaningful peace deals. Or else, they would be too arbitrary.

We need more info devs!
 
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Are the wars going to be always called "[country] vs [country]"? What about some names based on the main war goal e.g "The war of Kanakian Independence"
 
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Good diary. One question: can the War Leader change like it does in vic2? Like if two minor powers have a Great Power enter in on one side, will the Great Power take over as the War Leader on the side it joined, or will both the minor and Great Power both be War Leaders? Or will the minor stay the Leader but the Great Power become a Negotiator? Or is this some more complicated mechanism to determine War Leaders?

Also, one minor nitpick, shouldn't the Dead and Wounded numbers be positive? Having a negative number for the number of Dead and Wounded implies that you actually gained soldiers!

One other question: will civilian casualties contribute to the War Support (and be available to view)?
 
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nice dd but i have a question,
the example you gave about brazil, if brazil got just guyana as war goal and they occupy it, and keep it a long time
is it enough to make a peace treaty ?
 
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To answer several questions on the topic, there are currently no plans to allow for the adding of War Goals after the war starts, as doing so opens up for a lot of ways to circumvent the Diplomatic Play phase (go in with light demands to get support in the Play and then start demanding outrageous things once the war starts, for example). If we do add such a mechanic, it would have to allow the various actors in the war to reconsider their stance, open up for intervention and so on which are all neat ideas but a complex addition that would need a substantial design and iteration pass.
 
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Would this system in any way model the difference between war support of France defending from Germany and not surrendering despite huge losses and some occupied homeland territory, and Italy surrendering after losing one battle to Ethiopians because it was a remote colonial affair?
 
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Very happy that we can do give-and-takes in peace deals now, don't know why it took victoria 3 to make this happen, but hey ho.
Hey I thought that Europe Universalis 4 Handled this pretty well too. You can count out your allies but in exchange they would be pretty pissed and would surely kick you out of the future alliances. Not a full fix of course but there was consequences at least.

Great dev diary. Fully addresses the concerns I made last night in a forum post that I forgot to post because I got tired and passed out at my computer desk.
 
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Will Peace Deals have an affect on Domestic Politics too? For example, if you lose territory, it could end up destabilizing the country, or pops joining Revanchist movements who could end up demanding war for lost lands? Or on the other hand, annexation of land upsetting pops who are against territorial expansion, or satisfying jingoistic, imperialist pops? Can the game simulate internal pressures like what happened in the Mexican Cession, in which Whigs protested against the land grab, and some, in accordance with Manifest Destiny, advocated for full annexation of Mexico?
 
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Wizzington

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Would "unify region" be a wargoal or a decision? If the second one, when could we expect dev diary about events and decisions?
There are special Diplomatic Plays to facilitate the formation of certain nations such as Germany. More on this at another time.
 
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TheNumLocker

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Does the result of a peace deal influence the IG clouts? I could imagine interesting scenarios:
  • A devastating defeat undermines the gouvernement parties and creates opportunities for the opposition
  • A glorious victory not only empowers the gouvernement, but also the Armed forces, and emboldening them to try a coup
  • Forcing a “quick and victorious” war just to boost national popularity
  • In wartime, pro and anti war groups gaining and loosing clout based on the war score
 
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