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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #22 - The Concept of War

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Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 development diary! Today’s dev diary has been a hotly anticipated one, as we’re finally ready to start talking about war and combat and how they will work in Victoria 3.

So then, how does war and combat work? The answer is that we’ve taken a pretty different approach to warfare and combat in Victoria 3 compared to other Paradox Grand Strategy Games, and in this dev diary I’ll be going over the overall vision that governs our design for warfare, with the actual nitty-gritty on the mechanics coming over the next few weeks. Just as Victoria 3 itself has a set of design pillars that all game mechanics follow (as outlined in the very first diary), Warfare in Victoria 3 has its own design pillars, which we will now explain in turn.

The first pillar is one that is shared with the vision of the game as a whole: War is a Continuation of Diplomacy - anything you can gain through war should also be possible to gain through diplomacy. As we’ve already talked about this multiple times in the past, and last week’s dev diary told you all about Diplomatic Plays, we don’t feel the need to go into this again, but it’s still important to keep in mind to understand our approach to warfare.

dd22-1.png

The second pillar, War is Strategic, is exactly what it sounds like. In Victoria 3, all decisions you make regarding warfare are on the strategic level, not the tactical. What this means is that you do not move units directly on the map, or make decisions about which exact units should be initiating battle where. Instead of being unit-in-province-based, warfare in Victoria 3 is focused on supplying and allocating troops to frontlines between you and your enemies. The decisions you make during war are about matters such as what front you send your generals to and what overall strategy they should be following there. If this sounds like a radical departure from the norm in Paradox GSGs, that’s because it is, and I’ll be talking more about the rationale at the end of this dev diary.

dd22-2.png

The third pillar, War is Costly, is all about the cost of war - political, economic and humanitarian. There is no such thing as a bloodless war in Victoria 3, as just the act of mobilizing your army will immediately start accruing casualties from accident and disease (as these were and remain the biggest killers of men during war, not battles) in addition to being an immense financial burden for your country. The soldiers and conscripts who die during war leave behind children and widows, and may even become dependents themselves as a result of injuries sustained during your quest for national glory.

dd22-3.png

The fourth pillar, Preparation is Key, ties heavily into the second and third pillars. Much of the strategic decision making in Victoria 3 that will let you win wars are all about how well prepared you are. For example: Have you promoted the most competent generals, or were you forced to promote an incompetent wastrel for political expedience? Have you invested in the best (but very costly) rifles for your soldiers, or are you forced to fight at a technological disadvantage? During the Diplomatic Play preceding the war, did you mobilize all your armies in time and eat the costs in men and materiel, or did you hold off hoping on a peaceful resolution, or at least for the conflict to end up as a limited war? Did you choose to build and subsidize an arms industry large enough to cover your wartime needs, or is your army reliant on import of weapons that may be vulnerable to enemy shipping disruptions? These are the sort of questions that can decide who has the true advantage when going into an armed conflict in Victoria 3.

dd22-4.png

The fifth pillar, Navies Matter, is an ambition of ours that for many countries, navies should feel just as important (and in some cases more important) as armies. In addition to supporting or hindering overseas expeditions (by, for example, cutting off enemy supply lines), navies play a crucial role in waging economic warfare, as a country whose economy (or even worse, military goods supply) depends on trade will be vulnerable to the actions of hostile navies.

dd22-5.png


The sixth and final pillar, War Changes, is all about the technological advances of the 19th century and the way that warfare changed from the maneuvering of post-napoleonic armies to the meat grinder that was World War One. Our ambition is for these changes to be felt in the gameplay of Victoria 3, as technologies such as the machine gun makes warfare an ever bloodier and costlier affair while advancements in naval technology makes it easier for countries with advanced navies to project global power.

dd22-6.png

Before I end this dev diary, I want to talk briefly about our most radical departure from other Paradox GSGs - the absence of units you move on the map, and why we chose to go in this direction. The main reason is simply that Victoria 3 is a game primarily focused on Economy, Diplomacy and Politics and we felt a more strategic approach to warfare mechanics fits the game better than micro-intensive tactical maneuvering.

It’s important to note that how this works differs completely from having AI-controlled units in our other GSGs, since in Victoria 3 armies you assign armies to fronts rather than provinces (navies of course work differently, but more on that later). We’ll be getting into the exact details of the mechanics for both armies and navies in the coming weeks.

We of course still want Victoria 3 to have interesting and meaningful warfare mechanics, but we want the player to be engaging on a higher level of decision-making, making decisions about the overall war strategy and just how much they’re willing to sacrifice to achieve their goals rather than deciding which exact battalions should be battling it out in which exact province next.

This also ties into the general costliness of wars and the fact that you can achieve your ends through diplomacy - we want the ways in which an outmatched Victoria 3 player triumphs over their enemies to be clever diplomacy, well-planned logistics and rational strategic thinking rather than brilliant generalship. Ultimately, we’ve taken this approach to warfare for the same reason we take any game design decision: because we believe that it will make Victoria 3 a better game.

With that said, we’re done for today! We’ll of course be talking much more about warfare in the coming weeks, starting with next week’s dev diary on the topic of Fronts and Generals.
 
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No no, you significantly misunderstood my point. I like that V3 makes warfare into a continuation of diplomacy. I like their use of the old Crisis system. I like making war being increasingly devastating as technology advances. Yes, it SHOULD wreck your crap if you suck, but the problem is that this strategy, where all warfare is automated and you only pulling strings in hindsight forces you to suck if you don't play a major nation.

The fact that Uncivilized Nations in V2 were trapped behind insurmountable hurdles was the worst flaw of V2, now V3 comes and creates the same problem if you play as, say, a liberated Mongolia against the Russian Empire. It's the same song and dance as V2's greatest flaw, but this time, even less fun because you can't actually engage in strategic warfare in a STRATEGY GAME. There is no strategy to making broad strokes like "assign front to X province" after the fact if you are technologically superior. Your enemy cannot win.

My point is that it eliminates one of the defining components of Paradox strategy games and punishes the player for playing a way he seeks to do by 1) revoking any real control of units or means a player can use to make intelligent wins, which is the fun part of war in a strategy game, and 2) railroading a way to play the game.

It was like two steps forward and one step back: balancing Infamy was great and the Crisis system was even better, but making war so prohibitive that players are actively and constantly punished every time they try to play the way that the developers don't think their game should be played is railroading, which is the fundamental enemy of strategy gaming.

If I want to conquer Dixie as the Great Qing I should be able to do so and use strategy to do it; Paradox was right to make war actually devastating and I commend that. With this system in place, there appears to be no possible way that a player of a small nation can best a big one except through dirty tricks in diplomacy, and even then, that won't get Russian clay as the Qing Dynasty. With this new system, players can't use their wits and intelligence in warfare, meaning they must play the game "the right way". I will NEVER have ANY possibility of EVER attaining crazy goals and pipe dreams, like seeing Dixie aristocrats wearing Manchurian Cue hairstyles. Even if I fully become Recognized and actually have a decent amount oft echnology, I can't guide my navy to park in the Province that isn't what the broad strokes AI thinks it should be, meaning I'll get ROFL-stomped by the Mississippi National Guard in a battle I could have manually won with ease.

You can theoretically win as the Qing Dynasty against the British in V2. It's brutal, but possible. You can theoretically win as the Old South or even beat back Manifest Destiny as Mexico in V2, because it requires a LOT of manipulation of your own units by hand.

With all strategic components of moving units and designing battle plans totally taken from you, the Qing is pretty much never going to beat back the British, or the Russians, or whoever else no matter how skilled the player possibly is.

I was ecstatic to see that V3 was going to make diplomacy more important and make war actually devestating, but that evaporated when I saw that Paradox was going to actively punish skilled players by railroading them into losing a war against a superior foe by taking away the entire strategy of fighting a war and AUTOMATING IT.

I want diplomacy to always be an option, not forced to be the option. I should have a theoretical chance to defeat someone as Krakow IN A WAR if I play my cards right and get good alliances. If I secured an alliance with Prussia and attacked Russia, I would not be able to defend Krakow from being conquered, forcing me out of the war, because I can't make my units do anything to spawn choke points or meet up with Prussian forces. If I want clay, Russia won't give it to me in diplomacy unless I have France AND England AND Prussia as allies.

Where is the fun in that?! Some things can't be won with diplomacy because of the size of the enemy or tech advantages. I shouldn't have to muster the entire Entente to take one province just because I can't actually manipulate my units to actually punch above my weight.

In conclusion, the automating of war into broad strokes and the removal of units, coupled with the (rightly added) devestation of warfare and existing technology imbalances punish players skilled at prosecuting a hot war. It's worse than forced Lucky Nations in EU4. You should be able to become a dominant Great Power as any nation if you work hard enough. Removing the ability to control warfare SO THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY WIN removes virtually any path that isn't "realistic".

That is railroading. Railroading is wrong.
Your concerns seem pretty reasonable, but I do have to point out that during a mini-AAR of Korea by one of the devs on Discord, there was mention of one game where they managed to beat back the EIC and the UK from invading their nation (The Sikh Empire). Granted, they mentioned they had to destroy a bunch of their own nation to do it, but it does mean that the minors can win against the Great Powers if they're willing to sacrifice everything for it.
 
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So basically everything in this system is tied to generals...and yet the generals only have two traits and a interest group preference to make them unique?
Why are people disagreeing with me regarding this statement? Is there something in that screen shot I'm missing? This DD made it very clear that generals are very important in war and that one of your main ways of interacting with your military is by appointing generals, and yet generals seem to only have two traits (could maybe have one or two more I suppose) and an interest group that make them any different from other generals. What else is in the screenshot that makes the general unique from any other?
(I'm ignoring the cosmetic portrait, as that has no effect on gameplay)
 
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Mainly I really care more about what the traits actually do and how they affect the game than how many you can have. Look how CK3 reduced the characters' personality traits so most people only had three, but made said traits much more impactful through the stress system. Also, there's not even any proof that the number of traits is capped at two in the first place.
 

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Mainly I really care more about what the traits actually do and how they affect the game than how many you can have. Look how CK3 reduced the characters' personality traits so most people only had three, but made said traits much more impactful through the stress system. Also, there's not even any proof that the number of traits is capped at two in the first place.
I already allowed in my post that there might be more than two traits. I'm also not even complaining about the number of traits. My point is that generals are supposed to be very important in this system and are one of the player's primary ways to interact with their military, and yet there doesn't seem to be much difference between one general and another if the only differences are a few traits and their IG preference. In other Paradox games, such as EU4, CK3, or I:R, generals have more to them than this (though perhaps not much more), but you also have far more ways to interact with your army outside of just appointing a general in those games (i.e. you directly control the military). Just seems like there's really not much to the generals (they don't even have attributes as they do in every other historical Paradox game), which is worrying considering they're supposed to be so important in this new system.
 

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Why are people disagreeing with me regarding this statement? Is there something in that screen shot I'm missing? This DD made it very clear that generals are very important in war and that one of your main ways of interacting with your military is by appointing generals, and yet generals seem to only have two traits (could maybe have one or two more I suppose) and an interest group that make them any different from other generals. What else is in the screenshot that makes the general unique from any other?
(I'm ignoring the cosmetic portrait, as that has no effect on gameplay)
The screenshot is cropped. The general's traits relevant to the military (be it pips, points, attributes, etc.) may be hidden only to be revealed tomorrow. If you go back to earlier teasers and some Dev Diary images, they've done this a few times. I mean, at least I hope that's the case.
 
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The screenshot is cropped. The general's traits relevant to the military (be it pips, points, attributes, etc.) may be hidden only to be revealed tomorrow. If you go back to earlier teasers and some Dev Diary images, they've done this a few times. I mean, at least I hope that's the case.
I’d also add to this that just because that general only has two traits doesn’t mean that that is the maximum number a general can have.
 
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The screenshot is cropped. The general's traits relevant to the military (be it pips, points, attributes, etc.) may be hidden only to be revealed tomorrow. If you go back to earlier teasers and some Dev Diary images, they've done this a few times. I mean, at least I hope that's the case.
Perhaps there is more to it, my comment is based solely on what we can see. Though I would think that if the character did have attributes of some sort they would be higher up on the graphic and not placed at the bottom considering their importance.
 
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I already allowed in my post that there might be more than two traits. I'm also not even complaining about the number of traits. My point is that generals are supposed to be very important in this system and are one of the player's primary ways to interact with their military, and yet there doesn't seem to be much difference between one general and another if the only differences are a few traits and their IG preference. In other Paradox games, such as EU4, CK3, or I:R, generals have more to them than this (though perhaps not much more), but you also have far more ways to interact with your army outside of just appointing a general in those games (i.e. you directly control the military). Just seems like there's really not much to the generals (they don't even have attributes as they do in every other historical Paradox game), which is worrying considering they're supposed to be so important in this new system.
We know next to nothing about generals or the other ways you interact with the military, so I’d say your pessimism is premature. Luckily, you should only have to wait a day to find out a lot more detail.
 
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I’d also add to this that just because that general only has two traits doesn’t mean that that is the maximum number a general can have.
In that comment that TemirFe26 was responding to I already mentioned that there could be a higher maximum number of traits than two. My problem has nothing to do with the number of traits, it's about there seemingly being nothing other than a few traits and the IG to make one general different from another.
 

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We know next to nothing about generals or the other ways you interact with the military, so I’d say your pessimism is premature. Luckily, you should only have to wait a day to find out a lot more detail.
I'm basing my comment off of the DD and how Wiz explained we'll be interacting with the military. The DD states that the primary way we interact with the military is by promoting and assigning generals to fronts, investing in better military tech, choosing when you mobilize, and keeping your armies supplied.
 
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In that comment that TemirFe26 was responding to I already mentioned that there could be a higher maximum number of traits than two. My problem has nothing to do with the number of traits, it's about there seemingly being nothing other than a few traits and the IG to make one general different from another.
That's not exactly what I wanted to say, I should have worded it better now that I went back and reread my post. I meant to say that what we see in the image may not be everything relevant to the general, and that some things might be hidden by cropping the image. Therefore, trying to assess the mechanic by making sense of things we can see may not be as accurate due to the things that we cannot factor in. If I had to give an example, I'd say imagine a screenshot of a commander in HOI4 with the traits cropped, allowing you to only see the skill numbers. Again, it may be so, and it may not be so. I wouldn't believe an assumption that has even 99% chance of being correct if it's not confirmed by the devs.
 
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I'm basing my comment off of the DD and how Wiz explained we'll be interacting with the military. The DD states that the primary way we interact with the military is by promoting and assigning generals to fronts, investing in better military tech, choosing when you mobilize, and keeping your armies supplied.
This is the part you’re referencing:
The decisions you make during war are about matters such as what front you send your generals to and what overall strategy they should be following there.
I’ve bolded two very relevant parts. First, this is not exhaustive. Second, you pick the strategy on the front as well, which, depending on the specifics, could be even more important than logistics, troops numbers, and the general in command.
 
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Your concerns seem pretty reasonable, but I do have to point out that during a mini-AAR of Korea by one of the devs on Discord, there was mention of one game where they managed to beat back the EIC and the UK from invading their nation (The Sikh Empire). Granted, they mentioned they had to destroy a bunch of their own nation to do it, but it does mean that the minors can win against the Great Powers if they're willing to sacrifice everything for it.
It should take multiple wars to subdue the Sikhs...they were not your average unciv with good terrain on which to defend.
 

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That's not exactly what I wanted to say, I should have worded it better now that I went back and reread my post. I meant to say that what we see in the image may not be everything relevant to the general, and that some things might be hidden by cropping the image. Therefore, trying to assess the mechanic by making sense of things we can see may not be as accurate due to the things that we cannot factor in. If I had to give an example, I'd say imagine a screenshot of a commander in HOI4 with the traits cropped, allowing you to only see the skill numbers. Again, it may be so, and it may not be so. I wouldn't believe an assumption that has even 99% chance of being correct if it's not confirmed by the devs.
Yes, of course there could be other factors that we don't know about from the image. My first post was in the form of a question, not a direct statement alleging anything, and yet several people were disagreeing with me.
This is the part you’re referencing:

I’ve bolded two very relevant parts. First, this is not exhaustive. Second, you pick the strategy on the front as well, which, depending on the specifics, could be even more important than logistics, troops numbers, and the general in command.
I'm not seeing how picking the strategy adds any more difference between generals than what I've already mentioned. If traits do affect the strategies available, that is still only a difference between traits. The traits could affect a wide variety of things, including the strategies available for them to attempt, but that doesn't change my statement, that the only perceivable difference between generals at this moment are their traits and their IG.

At the very least I was expecting generals to have attributes, and maybe they do and we can't see them in this image, but there's no reason to assume that they do considering that other types of characters don't have them.
 
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I'm not seeing how picking the strategy adds any more difference between generals than what I've already mentioned. If traits do affect the strategies available, that is still only a difference between traits. The traits could affect a wide variety of things, including the strategies available for them to attempt, but that doesn't change my statement, that the only perceivable difference between generals at this moment are their traits and their IG.

At the very least I was expecting generals to have attributes, and maybe they do and we can't see them in this image, but there's no reason to assume that they do considering that other types of characters don't have them.
Aren't traits attributes? Also, strategies don't need to intersect with general traits (though I suspect they do) to give players a way to interact with their militaries. That interaction might be shallow (if "strategy" here amounts to some sort of rock paper scissors minigame like in Imperator: Rome) or it might be very deep. But it is something beyond assigning generals and troops and maintaining supply lines. That was my point.

We'll know more tomorrow, either way.
 
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I should also add that I liked the rock paper scissors minigame of Imperator: Rome. I've always thought the game's war system was consistently its best part (though the internal management aspects got better and better as the game got patched, RIP)
 
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No no, you significantly misunderstood my point. I like that V3 makes warfare into a continuation of diplomacy. I like their use of the old Crisis system. I like making war being increasingly devastating as technology advances. Yes, it SHOULD wreck your crap if you suck, but the problem is that this strategy, where all warfare is automated and you only pulling strings in hindsight forces you to suck if you don't play a major nation.

The fact that Uncivilized Nations in V2 were trapped behind insurmountable hurdles was the worst flaw of V2, now V3 comes and creates the same problem if you play as, say, a liberated Mongolia against the Russian Empire. It's the same song and dance as V2's greatest flaw, but this time, even less fun because you can't actually engage in strategic warfare in a STRATEGY GAME. There is no strategy to making broad strokes like "assign front to X province" after the fact if you are technologically superior. Your enemy cannot win.

My point is that it eliminates one of the defining components of Paradox strategy games and punishes the player for playing a way he seeks to do by 1) revoking any real control of units or means a player can use to make intelligent wins, which is the fun part of war in a strategy game, and 2) railroading a way to play the game.

It was like two steps forward and one step back: balancing Infamy was great and the Crisis system was even better, but making war so prohibitive that players are actively and constantly punished every time they try to play the way that the developers don't think their game should be played is railroading, which is the fundamental enemy of strategy gaming.

If I want to conquer Dixie as the Great Qing I should be able to do so and use strategy to do it; Paradox was right to make war actually devastating and I commend that. With this system in place, there appears to be no possible way that a player of a small nation can best a big one except through dirty tricks in diplomacy, and even then, that won't get Russian clay as the Qing Dynasty. With this new system, players can't use their wits and intelligence in warfare, meaning they must play the game "the right way". I will NEVER have ANY possibility of EVER attaining crazy goals and pipe dreams, like seeing Dixie aristocrats wearing Manchurian Cue hairstyles. Even if I fully become Recognized and actually have a decent amount oft echnology, I can't guide my navy to park in the Province that isn't what the broad strokes AI thinks it should be, meaning I'll get ROFL-stomped by the Mississippi National Guard in a battle I could have manually won with ease.

You can theoretically win as the Qing Dynasty against the British in V2. It's brutal, but possible. You can theoretically win as the Old South or even beat back Manifest Destiny as Mexico in V2, because it requires a LOT of manipulation of your own units by hand.

With all strategic components of moving units and designing battle plans totally taken from you, the Qing is pretty much never going to beat back the British, or the Russians, or whoever else no matter how skilled the player possibly is.

I was ecstatic to see that V3 was going to make diplomacy more important and make war actually devestating, but that evaporated when I saw that Paradox was going to actively punish skilled players by railroading them into losing a war against a superior foe by taking away the entire strategy of fighting a war and AUTOMATING IT.

I want diplomacy to always be an option, not forced to be the option. I should have a theoretical chance to defeat someone as Krakow IN A WAR if I play my cards right and get good alliances. If I secured an alliance with Prussia and attacked Russia, I would not be able to defend Krakow from being conquered, forcing me out of the war, because I can't make my units do anything to spawn choke points or meet up with Prussian forces. If I want clay, Russia won't give it to me in diplomacy unless I have France AND England AND Prussia as allies.

Where is the fun in that?! Some things can't be won with diplomacy because of the size of the enemy or tech advantages. I shouldn't have to muster the entire Entente to take one province just because I can't actually manipulate my units to actually punch above my weight.

In conclusion, the automating of war into broad strokes and the removal of units, coupled with the (rightly added) devestation of warfare and existing technology imbalances punish players skilled at prosecuting a hot war. It's worse than forced Lucky Nations in EU4. You should be able to become a dominant Great Power as any nation if you work hard enough. Removing the ability to control warfare SO THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY WIN removes virtually any path that isn't "realistic".

That is railroading. Railroading is wrong.

Where to begin here. The central assumption I see is that V2 balance in wars is unchanged in V3 and as such they will play out in the same way, but without your expert tactical guidance. Without the player tactical guidance they are doomed to failure.

If this is true then you are likely correct about war, but of course we don't know it is true. It seems pretty clear that diplomacy, trade, economics, and politics are going to impact the game in a much bigger way. Smaller nations can make the strategic choice of trading for more modern weapons to get an advantage over enemies, assuming their enemies cannot blockade them and choke them that way.

Your point about Krakow not being able to defend itself in a war is particularly odd. Were did you get the idea that alliances would in fact be harder to coordinate? I see this as a situation where coordinating with your allies would be easier. We are fighting Russia, so Prussia and Krakow would be on the same front and sharing the same manpower to fight Russia.

Lastly punching above your weight is almost certainly going to be in the game. I don't see why you cannot take Lombardy from Austria as Piedmont Sardinia, but maybe you need the right allies and and 1848 style revolt in Austria to get a swift victory. I am loving the idea that not having a clear upper hand could mean a protracted, costly war, rather than me cheesing Austrians into a defensive battle in the mountains and stack wiping from there. Maybe I get the upper hand by blockading the Adriatic ports of Austria with a superior Navy causing a shortage of goods and further turmoil.

I think a good analogy here is to Football Manager. You are upset some League 2 team cannot beat a Premier league team in the FA cup if you put the exact right tactics in. While to some degree the fantasy element of changing history (that we all love) creates a somewhat arcadey experience in PDX games as opposed to a true hardcore simulation, I appreciate that Victoria 3 is moving towards Football Manager and away from and EA FIFA game.
 
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Aren't traits attributes? Also, strategies don't need to intersect with general traits (though I suspect they do) to give players a way to interact with their militaries. That interaction might be shallow (if "strategy" here amounts to some sort of rock paper scissors minigame like in Imperator: Rome) or it might be very deep. But it is something beyond assigning generals and troops and maintaining supply lines. That was my point.

We'll know more tomorrow, either way.
Are they? When I say attributes I mean like the attributes you'll see on a character/general in CK3, HOI4, I:R, or EU4. In CK3 a character has both their martial attribute and their traits that will affect how they perform as a commander, and this is the same in I:R. In HOI4 they have traits and a total of four attributes (attack, defense, logistics, and planning), and EU4 has something similar with general traits and four attributes (fire, shock, maneuver, and siege). So if Vicky 3's generals only have traits and no attributes then they are already lacking compared to other Paradox games, not what I was expecting from such a hands-off warfare system. And I was actually hoping to see generals have a lot more depth to them on top of traits, attributes, and an associated IG (such as ideology and loyalty/opinion, as just a couple examples)
 

Drakken

Kawachi-no-kokushu
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Lastly punching above your weight is almost certainly going to be in the game. I don't see why you cannot take Lombardy from Austria as Piedmont Sardinia, but maybe you need the right allies and and 1848 style revolt in Austria to get a swift victory. I am loving the idea that not having a clear upper hand could mean a protracted, costly war, rather than me cheesing Austrians into a defensive battle in the mountains and stack wiping from there. Maybe I get the upper hand by blockading the Adriatic ports of Austria with a superior Navy causing a shortage of goods and further turmoil.

I think a good analogy here is to Football Manager. You are upset some League 2 team cannot beat a Premier league team in the FA cup if you put the exact right tactics in. While to some degree the fantasy element of changing history (that we all love) creates a somewhat arcadey experience in PDX games as opposed to a true hardcore simulation, I appreciate that Victoria 3 is moving towards Football Manager and away from and EA FIFA game.

Piemont-Sardinia beating Austria isn't really punching above its weight. In fact, everyone in Italy believed that if anyone could military champion the cause of Italy in the region, it was the King of Piedmont-Sardinia. It was widely perceived as equal in military power to Austria before the dual monarchy.

If "punching above your weight" is. say, beating Germany as Luxemburg and occupying Koln, this idea is patently ridiculous. We enter HOI4-meme territory and Vic3 loses any semblance of credibility. It would take a mere day for Germany to swamp and occupy Luxemburg, and we know that because that's exactly what they did in August 1914.

However, a more realistic "punching above your weight" scenario as Luxemburg would be to use its diplomatic capacity get both the governments and the people of Netherlands, Belgium, France and Britain very, very upset that big, mean bully Germany attacks the small country of Luxemburg without casus belli. They consider this a breach of the Treaty of London and all send an ultimatum to immediately restore the status quo ante bellum, or they declare war on Germany together. You're still occupied but, at least, you have two great powers and two neighboring powers championing your cause.
 
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