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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #22 - The Concept of War

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Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 development diary! Today’s dev diary has been a hotly anticipated one, as we’re finally ready to start talking about war and combat and how they will work in Victoria 3.

So then, how does war and combat work? The answer is that we’ve taken a pretty different approach to warfare and combat in Victoria 3 compared to other Paradox Grand Strategy Games, and in this dev diary I’ll be going over the overall vision that governs our design for warfare, with the actual nitty-gritty on the mechanics coming over the next few weeks. Just as Victoria 3 itself has a set of design pillars that all game mechanics follow (as outlined in the very first diary), Warfare in Victoria 3 has its own design pillars, which we will now explain in turn.

The first pillar is one that is shared with the vision of the game as a whole: War is a Continuation of Diplomacy - anything you can gain through war should also be possible to gain through diplomacy. As we’ve already talked about this multiple times in the past, and last week’s dev diary told you all about Diplomatic Plays, we don’t feel the need to go into this again, but it’s still important to keep in mind to understand our approach to warfare.

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The second pillar, War is Strategic, is exactly what it sounds like. In Victoria 3, all decisions you make regarding warfare are on the strategic level, not the tactical. What this means is that you do not move units directly on the map, or make decisions about which exact units should be initiating battle where. Instead of being unit-in-province-based, warfare in Victoria 3 is focused on supplying and allocating troops to frontlines between you and your enemies. The decisions you make during war are about matters such as what front you send your generals to and what overall strategy they should be following there. If this sounds like a radical departure from the norm in Paradox GSGs, that’s because it is, and I’ll be talking more about the rationale at the end of this dev diary.

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The third pillar, War is Costly, is all about the cost of war - political, economic and humanitarian. There is no such thing as a bloodless war in Victoria 3, as just the act of mobilizing your army will immediately start accruing casualties from accident and disease (as these were and remain the biggest killers of men during war, not battles) in addition to being an immense financial burden for your country. The soldiers and conscripts who die during war leave behind children and widows, and may even become dependents themselves as a result of injuries sustained during your quest for national glory.

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The fourth pillar, Preparation is Key, ties heavily into the second and third pillars. Much of the strategic decision making in Victoria 3 that will let you win wars are all about how well prepared you are. For example: Have you promoted the most competent generals, or were you forced to promote an incompetent wastrel for political expedience? Have you invested in the best (but very costly) rifles for your soldiers, or are you forced to fight at a technological disadvantage? During the Diplomatic Play preceding the war, did you mobilize all your armies in time and eat the costs in men and materiel, or did you hold off hoping on a peaceful resolution, or at least for the conflict to end up as a limited war? Did you choose to build and subsidize an arms industry large enough to cover your wartime needs, or is your army reliant on import of weapons that may be vulnerable to enemy shipping disruptions? These are the sort of questions that can decide who has the true advantage when going into an armed conflict in Victoria 3.

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The fifth pillar, Navies Matter, is an ambition of ours that for many countries, navies should feel just as important (and in some cases more important) as armies. In addition to supporting or hindering overseas expeditions (by, for example, cutting off enemy supply lines), navies play a crucial role in waging economic warfare, as a country whose economy (or even worse, military goods supply) depends on trade will be vulnerable to the actions of hostile navies.

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The sixth and final pillar, War Changes, is all about the technological advances of the 19th century and the way that warfare changed from the maneuvering of post-napoleonic armies to the meat grinder that was World War One. Our ambition is for these changes to be felt in the gameplay of Victoria 3, as technologies such as the machine gun makes warfare an ever bloodier and costlier affair while advancements in naval technology makes it easier for countries with advanced navies to project global power.

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Before I end this dev diary, I want to talk briefly about our most radical departure from other Paradox GSGs - the absence of units you move on the map, and why we chose to go in this direction. The main reason is simply that Victoria 3 is a game primarily focused on Economy, Diplomacy and Politics and we felt a more strategic approach to warfare mechanics fits the game better than micro-intensive tactical maneuvering.

It’s important to note that how this works differs completely from having AI-controlled units in our other GSGs, since in Victoria 3 armies you assign armies to fronts rather than provinces (navies of course work differently, but more on that later). We’ll be getting into the exact details of the mechanics for both armies and navies in the coming weeks.

We of course still want Victoria 3 to have interesting and meaningful warfare mechanics, but we want the player to be engaging on a higher level of decision-making, making decisions about the overall war strategy and just how much they’re willing to sacrifice to achieve their goals rather than deciding which exact battalions should be battling it out in which exact province next.

This also ties into the general costliness of wars and the fact that you can achieve your ends through diplomacy - we want the ways in which an outmatched Victoria 3 player triumphs over their enemies to be clever diplomacy, well-planned logistics and rational strategic thinking rather than brilliant generalship. Ultimately, we’ve taken this approach to warfare for the same reason we take any game design decision: because we believe that it will make Victoria 3 a better game.

With that said, we’re done for today! We’ll of course be talking much more about warfare in the coming weeks, starting with next week’s dev diary on the topic of Fronts and Generals.
 
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This is a DD thread. Please get back on topic. It's okay to disagree. It's not okay to be disrespectful. Final warning.
 
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You seem so certain of that, so let's see how certain!

I am willing to publically bet that within one week of Victoria III being released, provided it works on my computer I will have done exactly what you are so confident can't be done in this system (win a battle or war as a smaller nation against a larger one, without benefit of much greater technology), and I will be able to post screenshots to prove it.

If I'm wrong, I will not only publically admit I was wrong and you and the rest of the Army Man Brigade was right, I will donate $100 to a charity of your choosing. But if I can do it, you have to admit in the thread that you were wrong and apologise for jumping to conclusions and engaging in rampant hyperbole.

What a deal, right? I'm not even demanding you donate money! You have literally nothing to lose, and of course, you are 100% certain that it will be JUST as bad and simplistic as you keep insisting it will be, right?

So, what do you say? Willing to put no money where your mouth is?
I’m assuming you mean in Ironman mode, right? Despite not being an anti-crackpot theorist, I will take this bet in the spirit of gaming, with the proviso that it is specifically Zulu defeating Britain in a war. Assuming that the Zulu are playable at launch, as I’m not sure if it’s been confirmed if they are considered centralized or not.
 
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I’m assuming you mean in Ironman mode, right? Despite not being an anti-crackpot theorist, I will take this bet in the spirit of gaming, with the proviso that it is specifically Zulu defeating Britain in a war. Assuming that the Zulu are playable at launch, as I’m not sure if it’s been confirmed if they are considered centralized or not.
Of course it'd be ironman. That being said, no I am not going to say that within a week of playing I can beat Britain in a war playing the Zulu. The hyperbole I would like to see curbed is "no minor can ever beat a major under this new system" and the like; whether or not you could pull off this specific lopsided mismatch is quite another matter. I'm sure somebody will beat Britain in a war as the Zulu, but that somebody likely won't be me within a week (I was thinking of trying to beat Portugal as them, though, but that was idle speculation until I know more about the system) - I'm just a guy who's played Vicky a lot, not SpiffingBrit or w/e.

He predictably didnt take the bet, so here's the whole point of making it: I am 100% certain that whatever the combat system is, it will be possible to defeat superior opponents at least some of the time through planning and skill, because that is such a fundamentally basic requirement to a combat system AND simulator of the timeframe that it stretches credulity to think it won't. One can hate the IDEA of a strategic-level combat system - that's their own choice - but it wouldn't hurt to critique it in good faith rather than ridiculous hyperbole.
 
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Aircraft in HOI4 don’t operate at the level of provinces. Fronts in Victoria 3 do.
Yes, in Victoria 3 the provinces will change owners based on if the Airzone green bar is in your favor or not, that is the only function provinces will have. And which provinces are changed you have no control over, and are completely random because the whole system is an abstraction to how real life wars actually worked because players are unable to control armies and have 0 tactical decisions to make but move a slider.
 
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Yes, in Victoria 3 the provinces will change owners based on if the Airzone green bar is in your favor or not, that is the only function provinces will have. And which provinces are changed you have no control over, and are completely random because the whole system is an abstraction to how real life wars actually worked because players are unable to control armies in this game apparently and have 0 tactical decisions.
How do you know this is the case? It certainly sounds very different from the impression I got from this Dev Diary? Do you feel like setting strategy involves picking which targets a front is aimed at capturing? If so, I’d say this is not an accurate description of how the war system works.
 
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Encirclements, flanking, outmaneuvering for key objectives, setting up to defend key terrain, making defensive lines on riverlines, i doubt any of this will be in the game, or any tactical decisions will even be in the game because of this terrible design choice, let alone any fun multiplayer wars, what are players going to do, look at their 'Airzone' slider every 5 minutes and be like "oh wow i guess i'm winning, time to go back to manually building each factory in my country because there's nothing else to do"
 
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Yes, in Victoria 3 the provinces will change owners based on if the Airzone green bar is in your favor or not, that is the only function provinces will have. And which provinces are changed you have no control over, and are completely random because the whole system is an abstraction to how real life wars actually worked because players are unable to control armies and have 0 tactical decisions to make but move a slider.
It's genuinely hard to tell if this is satire or not.
 
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LOL just wait until the game flops harder then imperator appealing to singleplayer really helped you guys there.
still no chat function in imperator and ck3 I wonder why they have no multiplayer communities. Everyone knows alienating your
most consistent and loyal customers
i'm pretty sure that the majority of pdx players even the most consistent and loyal customers are mainly playing on singleplayer then multiplayer to be honest.
 
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I applaud the differentiation being done here.

I guess the players that like the excitment of war as it is in the other games, should play the other games, specially I:R for classic warfare ;)

I think it is difficult to make a simulation exhiliarating. But I am sure people playing Cities Skylines have the equivalent feeling that impel them to fire up the game again.
 
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It will not be satire when you realize that's the extent that these developers are going to make the war system, it will be pure dread.
Awww, satire would have been better.

Anyway, no, sorry, there won't be any dread. In the meantime, since you're new here, why not try talking instead of making dramatic pronouncments of doom?
 
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After reading diplomacy aproach with rising interest, this is a real bummer. Unit management is by default my favorite part in a grand strategy/4x game, seeing "ai" doing this only a cause for my anger. Reducing it to just some button clicking sounds boring to me...
 
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No they gave him inside information. There's no way he called it. They've been giving him the dev diaries early. They had him plant the idea in the community so there wouldn't be as volatile of a response.
It seems to be too convinient
Reducing it to just some button clicking sounds boring to me...
Each to ones own. For me the chasing of enemy armies is boring as I have no chance to administer my nation during war. Me the spirit of the country have to focus everything on the military aspect
 
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How would this new system work with colonial wars? Great Britain for instance has territories all over the place and fought in most of them. Drafting conscripts in England and sending them to India would take some time. Could you potentially shed some light on how that would work?

Overall I like this change, good job guys
 
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