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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #22 - The Concept of War

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Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 development diary! Today’s dev diary has been a hotly anticipated one, as we’re finally ready to start talking about war and combat and how they will work in Victoria 3.

So then, how does war and combat work? The answer is that we’ve taken a pretty different approach to warfare and combat in Victoria 3 compared to other Paradox Grand Strategy Games, and in this dev diary I’ll be going over the overall vision that governs our design for warfare, with the actual nitty-gritty on the mechanics coming over the next few weeks. Just as Victoria 3 itself has a set of design pillars that all game mechanics follow (as outlined in the very first diary), Warfare in Victoria 3 has its own design pillars, which we will now explain in turn.

The first pillar is one that is shared with the vision of the game as a whole: War is a Continuation of Diplomacy - anything you can gain through war should also be possible to gain through diplomacy. As we’ve already talked about this multiple times in the past, and last week’s dev diary told you all about Diplomatic Plays, we don’t feel the need to go into this again, but it’s still important to keep in mind to understand our approach to warfare.

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The second pillar, War is Strategic, is exactly what it sounds like. In Victoria 3, all decisions you make regarding warfare are on the strategic level, not the tactical. What this means is that you do not move units directly on the map, or make decisions about which exact units should be initiating battle where. Instead of being unit-in-province-based, warfare in Victoria 3 is focused on supplying and allocating troops to frontlines between you and your enemies. The decisions you make during war are about matters such as what front you send your generals to and what overall strategy they should be following there. If this sounds like a radical departure from the norm in Paradox GSGs, that’s because it is, and I’ll be talking more about the rationale at the end of this dev diary.

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The third pillar, War is Costly, is all about the cost of war - political, economic and humanitarian. There is no such thing as a bloodless war in Victoria 3, as just the act of mobilizing your army will immediately start accruing casualties from accident and disease (as these were and remain the biggest killers of men during war, not battles) in addition to being an immense financial burden for your country. The soldiers and conscripts who die during war leave behind children and widows, and may even become dependents themselves as a result of injuries sustained during your quest for national glory.

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The fourth pillar, Preparation is Key, ties heavily into the second and third pillars. Much of the strategic decision making in Victoria 3 that will let you win wars are all about how well prepared you are. For example: Have you promoted the most competent generals, or were you forced to promote an incompetent wastrel for political expedience? Have you invested in the best (but very costly) rifles for your soldiers, or are you forced to fight at a technological disadvantage? During the Diplomatic Play preceding the war, did you mobilize all your armies in time and eat the costs in men and materiel, or did you hold off hoping on a peaceful resolution, or at least for the conflict to end up as a limited war? Did you choose to build and subsidize an arms industry large enough to cover your wartime needs, or is your army reliant on import of weapons that may be vulnerable to enemy shipping disruptions? These are the sort of questions that can decide who has the true advantage when going into an armed conflict in Victoria 3.

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The fifth pillar, Navies Matter, is an ambition of ours that for many countries, navies should feel just as important (and in some cases more important) as armies. In addition to supporting or hindering overseas expeditions (by, for example, cutting off enemy supply lines), navies play a crucial role in waging economic warfare, as a country whose economy (or even worse, military goods supply) depends on trade will be vulnerable to the actions of hostile navies.

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The sixth and final pillar, War Changes, is all about the technological advances of the 19th century and the way that warfare changed from the maneuvering of post-napoleonic armies to the meat grinder that was World War One. Our ambition is for these changes to be felt in the gameplay of Victoria 3, as technologies such as the machine gun makes warfare an ever bloodier and costlier affair while advancements in naval technology makes it easier for countries with advanced navies to project global power.

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Before I end this dev diary, I want to talk briefly about our most radical departure from other Paradox GSGs - the absence of units you move on the map, and why we chose to go in this direction. The main reason is simply that Victoria 3 is a game primarily focused on Economy, Diplomacy and Politics and we felt a more strategic approach to warfare mechanics fits the game better than micro-intensive tactical maneuvering.

It’s important to note that how this works differs completely from having AI-controlled units in our other GSGs, since in Victoria 3 armies you assign armies to fronts rather than provinces (navies of course work differently, but more on that later). We’ll be getting into the exact details of the mechanics for both armies and navies in the coming weeks.

We of course still want Victoria 3 to have interesting and meaningful warfare mechanics, but we want the player to be engaging on a higher level of decision-making, making decisions about the overall war strategy and just how much they’re willing to sacrifice to achieve their goals rather than deciding which exact battalions should be battling it out in which exact province next.

This also ties into the general costliness of wars and the fact that you can achieve your ends through diplomacy - we want the ways in which an outmatched Victoria 3 player triumphs over their enemies to be clever diplomacy, well-planned logistics and rational strategic thinking rather than brilliant generalship. Ultimately, we’ve taken this approach to warfare for the same reason we take any game design decision: because we believe that it will make Victoria 3 a better game.

With that said, we’re done for today! We’ll of course be talking much more about warfare in the coming weeks, starting with next week’s dev diary on the topic of Fronts and Generals.
 
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Remember how tedious manually promoting POPs was?
But taking away control from players automatically ruins games!

(Also, that had literally nothing on how annoying it is that rebel stacks autopop up everywhere in taken provinces during a war. Vicky 1 is still great despite all this, though. Turboimmigration Uruguay FTW.)
 
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I love this, and I have a some thoughts about it also.

First of all, I think this change is pretty indicative of something I've been noticing about Victoria 3 that I think is going to make it feel very distinct from most GSGs: its theory of history.

In the past, history was often presented via the great man theory, the idea that history is largely driven by specific individuals making huge, influential decisions....

This game seems to view history as more of a history from below, a more modern approach where history is viewed as mostly driven by the people, their mass movements, and their material conditions....
I agree that this change is indicative of how the people designing this game think about history and that is why I think it's going to be bad.
 
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It will be interesting to see how you handle strategy. Will fronts advance? Broadly or narrowly? Who will make that decision? Will they move on the map? Looking forward to the next few diaries. (More than usual to be clear.)
Based on Wiz's comment on this, I'm going to hazard the answers to your questions are: Yes. Unclear, but probably both at different times. Unclear. Yes.
Provinces still play an important role in warfare still as control over them is what determines the course of frontlines and the war, but more on this in the coming weeks.
 
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It means "pick a bigger country maybe?"
Major nations are not interesting after couple replays so - No way. Even Hoi IV metrics show them people increasingly playing more minors as the years went by, also EU IV - same deal and etc.,

On another note the Victorian era is the period where some smaller nations got their place in the sun, and not for having amazing economy and resources by the way, but by being clever and determined.
 
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On another note the Victorian era is the period where some smaller nations got their place in the sun, and not for having amazing economy and resources by the way, but by being clever and determined.
And they can do so with actual game mechanics, and not "sit in a mountain until the AI blitzes its entire army into you".
 
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Major nations are not interesting after couple replays so - No way. Even Hoi IV metrics show them people increasingly playing more minors as the years went by, also EU IV - same deal and etc.,
That's because in both games they specifically put effort into making minors more interesting with DLC over the years. It's not a shocker that nobody played minor or non-European countries when they had no flavor and were just boring and weak, but started playing them more when they actually got dev time put in to making the areas the minors are in compelling to play. The thing about a game like Victoria where you actually have a focus already on demographics, economics, politics, diplomacy, and a focus on internal country management instead of war is smaller nations become automatically more viable and interesting in and of themselves without as much specific attention needed.
 
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And they can do so with actual game mechanics, and not "sit in a mountain until the AI blitzes its entire army into you".
Obviously not war game mechanics since small technologically inferior Nations do not have the resources for that and giving them buffs is not the solution in my opinion. So prepare yourself for a diplomatic game, since war is stupid now.

The Victorian era and ww1 was full of warfare with surprising results against all odds though.
 
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Major nations are not interesting after couple replays so - No way. Even Hoi IV metrics show them people increasingly playing more minors as the years went by, also EU IV - same deal and etc.,

On another note the Victorian era is the period where some smaller nations got their place in the sun, and not for having amazing economy and resources by the way, but by being clever and determined.
Uh, the period is one where nearly every remaining non-Western nation lost their independence, actually.
 
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This is fascinating- Vic 3 is shaping up to be the boldest Paradox release in years. This is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for.

I have no idea if it will work or not, but it's great to see the developers making bold choices.
 
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That's because in both games they specifically put effort into making minors more interesting with DLC over the years. It's not a shocker that nobody played minor or non-European countries when they had no flavor and were just boring and weak, but started playing them more when they actually got dev time put in to making the areas the minors are in compelling to play. The thing about a game like Victoria where you actually have a focus already on demographics, economics, politics, diplomacy, and a focus on internal country management instead of war is smaller nations become automatically more viable and interesting in and of themselves without as much specific attention needed.
No, people just do not want to takeover Poland as Germany for the 85th time. I played EU IV for 4600 Hours - how can I do that with only Major Nations? I fully require Victoria 3 to be as replayable otherwise it is not up to standard. Hoi IV devs began to give new focus trees to minor nations because the metrics showed more and more people playing them anyway.
 
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Obviously not war game mechanics since small technologically inferior Nations do not have the resources for that and giving them buffs is not the solution in my opinion. So prepare yourself for a diplomatic game, since war is stupid now.

The Victorian era and ww1 was full of warfare with surprising results against all odds though.
It boggles me that people equate "winning despite the odds" as "putting a tempting target on a mountain, waiting until the enemy commits to attacking it, rush your entire army in to reinforce". That isn't how it worked in real life, to say the least.

This new system at least theoretically can actually replicate the REAL reasons the more potent powers lost battles and even wars better than Vicky 2 ever could, and btw, good effing luck trying to hold the Dutch off for 30 years as historically-sized Aceh in Vicky 2 even with unrealistic gamey tactics (or, indeed, nearly any example of stymying European powers for any length from the period).
 
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Jamaican Castle

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Obviously not war game mechanics since small technologically inferior Nations do not have the resources for that and giving them buffs is not the solution in my opinion.
Leaving aside that in the last several dev diaries they stressed how regional power is - that is, it's one thing for France to roll over Belgium, something quite different for them to hat up and occupy a colony halfway around the world - then yes, if you have a larger, hostile neighbor, you should probably not go to war with them. In what way is this controversial?
 
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Kyoumen

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Japan is disagreeing, Balkans disagree, Ethiopia disagrees, Belgium disagrees.
Wasn't aware Belgium was a non-Western nation.

Would you like a list of polities that lost independence between 1836 and 1936? The list is a LOT longer and includes almost the entirety of a continent that dwarfs Europe.
 
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Antimonum

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Wasn't aware Belgium was a non-Western nation.

Would you like a list of polities that lost independence between 1836 and 1936? The list is a LOT longer and includes almost the entirety of a continent that dwarfs Europe.
Does not matter, there were a lot of surprising exceptions and as a player your role is to rise to the challenge and make it happen.
 
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