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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #2 - Capacities

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Hello and welcome back to another Victoria 3 dev diary! Today we will be talking about three of the four of the main ‘currencies’ of the game - namely Capacities (the last being Money, which we’ll of course come back to later).

We mentioned in the very first dev diary that there is no ‘mana’ in Victoria 3, and since this dev diary is about the game’s “currencies”, I want to be clear on what I mean by that. When we say there is “no mana” we mean that the resources in Victoria 3 arise and are spent in clearly defined ways that are parts of the simulation, not from an overly abstract concept or vague idea. There is, of course, some degree of abstraction involved (all games are abstractions after all), but we want all the game’s currencies to be strongly rooted in the mechanics and not feel arbitrary.

But enough about that and onto Capacities. What exactly are they?

Well, for starters, calling them currencies is actually not accurate. Capacities are not a pooled resource and are not accumulated or spent, but instead, have a constant generation and a constant usage (similar to for example Administrative Capacity in Stellaris), and you generally want to keep your usage from exceeding your generation. Each capacity represents one specific area of your nation’s ability to govern and is used solely for matters relating to that area.

As mentioned, Capacities are not accumulated, so excess generation is not pooled, but instead there is an effect for each Capacity which is positive if generation exceeds usage and quite negative if usage exceeds generation - a country that incorporates territories left and right without expanding its bureaucratic corps may quickly find itself mired in debt as tax collection collapses under the strain!

Bureaucracy represents a nation’s ability to govern, invest in and collect taxes from its incorporated territory. It is produced by the Government Administration building, where many of a nation’s Bureaucrats will be employed. All of a nation’s Incorporated States use a base amount of Bureaucracy which increases with the size of their population, and further increased by each Institution (such as Education or Police - more on those later!) that a country has invested in. Overall, the purpose of Bureaucracy is to ensure that there is a cost to ruling over, taxing and providing for your population - administrating China should not be cheap!

The Swedish Bureaucracy is currently a bit overworked and the country could certainly benefit from another Government Administration building or two.
bureaucracy.PNG

Authority represents the Head of State’s personal power and ability to enact change in the country through decree. It is generated from your Laws - generally, the more repressive and authoritarian the country, the more Authority it will generate - and is used by a variety of actions such as enacting decrees in specific states, interacting with Interest Groups and promoting or banning certain types of Goods. Overall, the purpose of Authority is to create an interesting trade-off between more and less authoritarian societies - by shifting the distribution of power away from the Pops into the hands of the ruler, your ability to rule by decree is increased, and vice versa.

The Swedish King has more Authority at his disposal than he is currently using, slightly speeding up the rate at which laws can be passed.
authority.PNG

Influence represents a country’s ability to conduct diplomacy and its reach on the global stage. It is generated primarily from your Rank (Great Powers have more Influence than Major Powers and so on) and is used to support ongoing diplomatic actions and pacts, such as Improving Relations, Alliances, Trade Deals, Subjects and so on. Overall, the purpose of Influence is to force players to make interesting choices about which foreign countries they want to build strong diplomatic relationships with.

Sweden has plenty of unused Influence and could certainly afford to support another diplomatic pact or two!
influence.png

That’s all for today! Join us again next week as I cover something yet another topic that’s fundamental to Victoria 3: Buildings. See you then!
 
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Not sure I get how the autority currenty is suppose to work in a democracy. Isnt the parliament or congress that are suppose to give you the "autority" to pass laws or enact decree? :/
 

Hertzila

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Not sure I get how the autority currenty is suppose to work in democracy. Isnt the parliment or congress that are suppose to give you the "autority" to pass laws or enact decree? :/
The answer seems to be "It won't." A democracy won't have much, if at all, Authority, as the personal authority of the sovereign doesn't matter so much in a country with strong liberal laws, as Vicky 3 models things. At least, if your democracy truly is free.

Instead, you rely on manipulating your pops to vote for the laws you want and setting up alternatives to royal decrees (or at least that's what I gathered). Case in point, Wiz seemed to imply that you could just spend money to get effects like road maintenance, as that would be standard budgeting instead of a monarch flexing their authority to demand free upkeep.
 
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Paradox when announcing the game: There won't be mana guys
Paradox at the second dev diary: Here sweetie, have some mana!

Can't say i didn't expect it tbh
Typical of this forum, you haven't understood what Capacities are before taking shots.

They are basically Administrative Capacity from Stellaris. No one called that mana to my knowledge...

Might as well call Money COIN MANA at that rate.
 
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halbort

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I'm curious if any of the devs have read anything from Michael Beckley, a professor at Tufts who has written about nations with large economies due to their large size often underperform. In short, his analysis provides a historical argument for why playing 'tall' is a viable strategy, and he uses the Opium Wars as his example - he also cites Japan v China around the turn of the 20th century and Germany v Russia in WW1.


Slightly longer, but the costs of taking care of a large population can make an economy look large, but if that population is not also productive, than the country in question is not nearly as powerful as it looks. As a shorthand, he multiples GDP by GDP/capita, and uses that to demonstrate that, while a larger country might have a larger economy and perhaps even a larger military, a smaller country can punch far above what it looks like it should.
What about the US?
 

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Another excellent DD - Cheers Wizzington, and Iachek for the extra info - I am very, very much looking forward to Vicky 3 :)

All buildings work like this in Victoria 3, including ports and railroads

Are sailors needed for the merchant marine as well? Would be super-cool if there were sailor pops. Depending on how pops work for the military as well, a large merchant marine sailor pop could make it easier to more rapidly expand a navy in wartime/have effective naval reserves?

Authority up for other things like suppressing your political opponents (or, you know, granting your people more rights, if that's how you want to go about it.)

Iachek letting his penchant authoritarianism slip here :)

Autocrats (or anyone with a great deal of personal power) can do things in a way that cuts through red tape, that's basically what Authority is representing. It's meant to be a trade-off but it also simulate a very real effect.

On this, one of the things autocrats often used their authority too was to look after themselves - are there any gameplay mechanics to represent autocrats using their authority for self-aggrandizement, and impacts for this? Note - I'm not saying there should be (although there might already be) - I'm just throwing ideas around, as many autocrats weren't necessarily altruistic, benevolent servants of the state.

For a naval-themed pic for this DD, here's Kaiser Wilhelm II in naval uniform
Providing education to a million people is ten times more expensive than providing it to a hundred thousand people.

Is there anything that represents the benefits of scale of having lots of people together - for example, most things per head are easier to provide in more populated areas, as there's less wastage/travel required? Could be another neat way of modelling the benefits or urbanisation/population density on making 'modern' (for the Vicky era) societal improvements more practical?
 
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That sounds great!
I hope happy and loyal historically (''regime ancient'') Groups of Interest gives some small bonus to each capacity. For example Clergy toward Buruecracy; Army/Officers toward Authority and Aristocrates toward Influence.
hmmmm that would even be a nice mechanic ...point of battle between different Interest Groups. When you progress as a nation and Beurocrates, Capitalist and Itelecualls takes over those positions hold previously by regime ancient....
:D
 
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Also, can someone explain to me exactly what "mana" is in this context? I honestly don't know what people are reffering to, I just know it as something that makes people angry in the EU forum.
 
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The answer seems to be "It won't." A democracy won't have much, if at all, Authority, as the personal authority of the sovereign doesn't matter so much in a country with strong liberal laws, as Vicky 3 models things. At least, if your democracy truly is free.

Instead, you rely on manipulating your pops to vote for the laws you want and setting up alternatives to royal decrees (or at least that's what I gathered). Case in point, Wiz seemed to imply that you could just spend money to get effects like road maintenance, as that would be standard budgeting instead of a monarch flexing their authority to demand free upkeep.
Lets just hope democraties have their owns mechanisms taking into account parliement/congress dynamic and that political parties are part of it...
 
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Bureaucracy usage scales with the number of people you administrate. Providing education to a million people is ten times more expensive than providing it to a hundred thousand people. There is also a flat cost per incorporated state, to represent the difficulties in governing large territories (even if those territories are depopulated).
Once again Im questioning why you went with a national bureaucratic system instead of a local one or even a mixture of both?
 
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Hi long time reader, first time poster here to drop my hot take before disappearing into smoke again.

It's mana.
The way long-term projects are obviously (probably) going to be handled is instead of saving up your 10 mana a turn to spend 100 in one go you'll be expending 1 of your 10 'capacity' over 100 turns while the 9 mana leftover goes to other stuff, but the whole thing is much of a muchness.

Things good about it: Less clicking I guess, seems a lot more 'set and forget'

Things bad? about it: It's less flexible, you can't save up 50 'mana' and now decide you want to spend it someplace else. You're in it for the long haul for better or worse, even if it means cancelling things in-progress when they're no longer viable. Some people might prefer that, it definitely feels more realistic.

System seems fun and I'm looking forward to getting to play with it.
 
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Is bureaucracy only a value the nation as a whole has or is it possible to have well run efficient areas of your country along with regions that are poorly run or curupt?
 

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Also, can someone explain to me exactly what "mana" is in this context? I honestly don't know what people are reffering to, I just know it as something that makes people angry in the EU forum.
"Mana" refers to the over-abstraction of complex factors into a single point-based resource. Admin/Diplo/Military power in EU4 is often the most-cited example of oversimplification and overabstraction of the historical simulation aspect of the game in favour of streamlining and accessibility.

"Mana" is most raised as a point of critique of Paradox titles when sequels simplify existing mechanics. For instance, coring in EU3 was an automatic process that gradually occurred over the better part of a century as your occupation gained legitimacy. Technology and stability were increased by gradual monetary investments ("sliders") that increased in cost as your nation grew (based on population and # of provinces, iirc). EU4 was a sore spot for many fans, as these more complex mechanics were "dumbed down" into spending points to get bonuses. (I personally was not against the change until much later down the line in EU4's development, but that's another story)

Many Victoria 2 fans are very much against "mana", or overabstracted point-systems being implemented in Victoria 3 for the same reason we were so adamant that pops be properly implemented (rather than Stellaris or Imperator-style pops). The simulation aspect of Victoria 2 was its most unique and compelling selling point, and a chief reason people keep coming back to it after all these years. To completely reduce complex politics and socioeconomic developments to a point or token system would be to implement "mana", to the detriment of the game in the eyes of many Victoria 2 fans.
 
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Hi long time reader, first time poster here to drop my hot take before disappearing into smoke again.

It's mana.
The way long-term projects are obviously (probably) going to be handled is instead of saving up your 10 mana a turn to spend 100 in one go you'll be expending 1 of your 10 'capacity' over 100 turns while the 9 mana leftover goes to other stuff, but the whole thing is much of a muchness.

Things good about it: Less clicking I guess, seems a lot more 'set and forget'

Things bad? about it: It's less flexible, you can't save up 50 'mana' and now decide you want to spend it someplace else. You're in it for the long haul for better or worse, even if it means cancelling things in-progress when they're no longer viable. Some people might prefer that, it definitely feels more realistic.

System seems fun and I'm looking forward to getting to play with it.
What do you mean by long term projects here? Capacities seem to be used for things that you toggle on or off, as far as I can see. And remember, you can go over your capacity; it's not the end of the world if you want to do something that costs 20 and you only have 10 left before you go over.
 
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What do you mean by long term projects here? Capacities seem to be used for things that you toggle on or off, as far as I can see. And remember, you can go over your capacity; it's not the end of the world if you want to do something that costs 20 and you only have 10 left before you go over.
By long-term project I don't mean anything specific, just something that might take multiple turns. In previous games you might save up 12 points of x to click a 'suppress revolts' button that keeps them at bay for a year, now it looks more like you spend 1 capacity over a year to do something that achieves a similar result.

You're 100% right about being able to over capacity though I hadn't considered that.
But I suppose in previous games there were always ways to trade other resources for extra points if you wanted to go 'over'. Here your choice of trade is just fixed.
 
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