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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #2 - Capacities

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Hello and welcome back to another Victoria 3 dev diary! Today we will be talking about three of the four of the main ‘currencies’ of the game - namely Capacities (the last being Money, which we’ll of course come back to later).

We mentioned in the very first dev diary that there is no ‘mana’ in Victoria 3, and since this dev diary is about the game’s “currencies”, I want to be clear on what I mean by that. When we say there is “no mana” we mean that the resources in Victoria 3 arise and are spent in clearly defined ways that are parts of the simulation, not from an overly abstract concept or vague idea. There is, of course, some degree of abstraction involved (all games are abstractions after all), but we want all the game’s currencies to be strongly rooted in the mechanics and not feel arbitrary.

But enough about that and onto Capacities. What exactly are they?

Well, for starters, calling them currencies is actually not accurate. Capacities are not a pooled resource and are not accumulated or spent, but instead, have a constant generation and a constant usage (similar to for example Administrative Capacity in Stellaris), and you generally want to keep your usage from exceeding your generation. Each capacity represents one specific area of your nation’s ability to govern and is used solely for matters relating to that area.

As mentioned, Capacities are not accumulated, so excess generation is not pooled, but instead there is an effect for each Capacity which is positive if generation exceeds usage and quite negative if usage exceeds generation - a country that incorporates territories left and right without expanding its bureaucratic corps may quickly find itself mired in debt as tax collection collapses under the strain!

Bureaucracy represents a nation’s ability to govern, invest in and collect taxes from its incorporated territory. It is produced by the Government Administration building, where many of a nation’s Bureaucrats will be employed. All of a nation’s Incorporated States use a base amount of Bureaucracy which increases with the size of their population, and further increased by each Institution (such as Education or Police - more on those later!) that a country has invested in. Overall, the purpose of Bureaucracy is to ensure that there is a cost to ruling over, taxing and providing for your population - administrating China should not be cheap!

The Swedish Bureaucracy is currently a bit overworked and the country could certainly benefit from another Government Administration building or two.
bureaucracy.PNG

Authority represents the Head of State’s personal power and ability to enact change in the country through decree. It is generated from your Laws - generally, the more repressive and authoritarian the country, the more Authority it will generate - and is used by a variety of actions such as enacting decrees in specific states, interacting with Interest Groups and promoting or banning certain types of Goods. Overall, the purpose of Authority is to create an interesting trade-off between more and less authoritarian societies - by shifting the distribution of power away from the Pops into the hands of the ruler, your ability to rule by decree is increased, and vice versa.

The Swedish King has more Authority at his disposal than he is currently using, slightly speeding up the rate at which laws can be passed.
authority.PNG

Influence represents a country’s ability to conduct diplomacy and its reach on the global stage. It is generated primarily from your Rank (Great Powers have more Influence than Major Powers and so on) and is used to support ongoing diplomatic actions and pacts, such as Improving Relations, Alliances, Trade Deals, Subjects and so on. Overall, the purpose of Influence is to force players to make interesting choices about which foreign countries they want to build strong diplomatic relationships with.

Sweden has plenty of unused Influence and could certainly afford to support another diplomatic pact or two!
influence.png

That’s all for today! Join us again next week as I cover something yet another topic that’s fundamental to Victoria 3: Buildings. See you then!
 
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I don't think bureaucracy will be the main impediment to integrating a region. We will have to see how cultures and nationalism work. I think you will need a lot of factors working in your favour to get maximum benefit from a given state. For instance, if the pops in a state hate you, they are probably radicals, and that has lots of implications for productivity and public order.

Hopefully global bureaucratic capacity isn't the only thing that affects tax efficiency in a region. Maybe degree of radicalism or other pop-level factors make a big difference as well.
I would very much like to see pop militancy/radicalism have impacts such as this!
 

Negru Voda

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It's not clear just from this screenshot, but Freedom of Assembly is a law in the Free Speech category of Laws, which "culminates" in Protected Speech. As the most liberal Law in this category, it grants no Authority, while more repressive Laws (like Freedom of Assembly) do. In isolation from the rest of the game, of course that means it looks like granting your people rights increases your Authority but that is actually the opposite of what is happening.

Also, this is of course not the only thing Free Speech Laws govern, there are other effects of the Laws as well which provide trade-offs to your country, but this is the only effect it has on Authority.

The reason why Road Maintenance uses Authority is because it's a decree (one of many different types) issued in a state to its population, and doesn't cost the government anything other than the Authority to ensure its people are following its directives. This is a pretty early-game solution to maintaining a good market connections in a few states at a time, more effective means of leveraging your economy to ensure cohesion between your states tend to emerge later in the game, freeing your Authority up for other things like suppressing your political opponents (or, you know, granting your people more rights, if that's how you want to go about it.)
Thanks for sheding light on this.

Have you considered deriving authority from the support of your IGs/Political parties? Kinda like how Stellaris influence derives from happy factions.
Or does this already happen indirectly? Your IGs allow you to pass measures which inpact authority?

Apologies if I missed this info already.
 

Avian Overlord

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Mana means whatever you want it to mean, I guess.

I wonder what the Maori would think of this discussion...
I'm hardly an expert, but I believe Authority and Influence would be considered Mana in the Maori use of the term. "Legitimacy" is probably the closest English translation of the term.
 
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Mr. Wiggles

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As I said, power projection capability is part of what generates the ability to exert foreign influence. And that is represented in the game as such.

But also soft power generates foreign influence. A head of state able to charm or captivate a room of foreign delegates. Literature, film, music, architecture, and fashion trends, originating in a country and gaining popularity abroad. Wealthy citizens with marriage, familial, or other personal or business ties to other movers and shakers abroad. The capacity and willingness to host diplomatic summits and agreements in your country. The general goodwill of and toward your citizenry in other nations. The simple idea of how a nation is perceived by the international community. All of these things are part of generating foreign influence that cannot be expressed as a material, tangible resource and require abstraction.
And what is soft power? Actions. Agreements. Treaties. Diplomacy. Long Term Collaboration. Threats.

I know the Hive mind will not like this, but influence as an entity does not exist, it is not created, it is not spent. You do not have a pool of it at your disposal. It does not guarantee results. Some countries will care about your "soft power", others will not give a single damn about it.

Having an influence pool and using it to have more pacts is nonsense, is "mana". It is not grounded in reality.
You make agreements first, you see who agrees and who does not and only at the end of the day you will see the results (or dont).
 
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Krey_Lollipop

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If it costs any of the capacities then the road maintenance should cost bureau instead. It is not like maintaining a road is something you have to do against the locals will as they really hate it having to walk on it instead of some beaten path.
One of my favourite 19th century books to read actually touches a similar topic. While it does not explicitly state that people hated walking on it, it does feature a several page long argumentation on why the road in question was a waste of resources. For those who can read 19th century Swedish, here's a link. But in short, the argument is that the summer months (when the road is useable) are already occupied by labor. During the winter on the other hand, there is no need for a road as transport is made easy by the snow and ice.

There also was a form of settlement in the region were part of the contract was that the inhabitants would maintain the roads and provide services key to travel. In that case the local conditions for maintaining a road weren't good, so the goverment had to leverage it's authority to achieve this.

Those were some local examples though. Obviously there would be places were the conditions are such that a road is perfectly in-line with the local will, and thus more of a bureaucratic thing.

--- With that said, here are my reactions to the DD and other post in general: ---

Sweden-Norway has been on my wishlist since day 1, but I'm curious what this will mean for other countries like Austria-Hungary. Also, will there be a dynamic element to this, and if so, to what extent? Will I get the regular Swedish flag if Norway goes independent (and will I get it back if I later unite with Denmark)? Will my colonies have a watermark based on my country? Will I get more stars as the US? Will what-if scenarios be covered, and if so will it just be pre-made flags for likely unions or will it be able to deal with anything I throw at it?

A lot of people call this mana. I don't agree with that*, but it made me curious, is there a game which uses a capacity system for magic (or the equivalent thereof)? The closest example I can think of are those mods for Minecraft with solar-panel helmets and various gadgets, but even then you're usually dealing with a pool.

Eitherway, sweet to see a bit of variation in the currencies at play. I really have to try Stellaris though, as I hear that is where most of the inspiration to this comes from.

* To me mana is a value you can save up and then use on abilities. Like in Final Fantasy 7 or Europa Universalis 4 for instance.

(EDIT) D&D seems to use a form of capacities for spells. I haven't played that though, and with all other factors involved like components and concentration it probably isn't a perfect match.
 
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And what is soft power? Actions. Agreements. Treaties. Diplomacy. Long Term Collaboration. Threats.

I know the Hive mind will not like this, but influence as an entity does not exist, it is not created, it is not spent. You do not have a pool of it at your disposal. It does not guarantee results. Some countries will care about your "soft power", others will not give a single damn about it.

Having an influence pool and using it to have more pacts is nonsense, is "mana". It is not grounded in reality.
You make agreements first, you see who agrees and who does not and only at the end of the day you will see the results (or dont).
Having some sort of number that represents a country's relationship with your own does not exist either and using it to determine how likely they are to agree to your requests or take aggressive actions against you is also nonsense. The mere act of sending a diplomatic mission won't make a country or their people view your country better either. None of it is grounded in reality and can't be.

If you want to play a game and have fun, some things have to be abstracted to seemingly silly mechanics because there's no good way to fully simulate or represent them otherwise that are completely opaque and not fun to the player.
 
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Word_Smith

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If you want to play a game and have fun, some things have to be abstracted to seemingly silly mechanics because there's no good way to fully simulate or represent them otherwise that are completely opaque and not fun to the player.
With all respect, you're attacking a strawman. Nobody is arguing that Vicky 3 doesn't require abstractions. The debate is whether Vicky 3 is becoming more abstracted and oversimplified than Vicky 2, and whether that is a good thing or a bad thing.
 
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Everyone talking about manna, while the rest of us are wondering how is that the sweedish flag
Because that was the Swedish flag at the time.
 

Revan F

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Overall I like all these ideas. Here are some thoughts

bureaucracy seems fine; I particularly like tying them to efficient taxation. If I may suggest something : tie them to public order too. Well-staffed local bureaucracy should be able to help maintaining order and ease discontentment while understaffed bureaucracy may not be able to react swiftly (to make an exemple I know very well, in France, Napoleon reorganized the local bureaucracy with the task to monitor any seditious activity and report it back to Paris. Something they did under all regimes of the period, be it monarchist, imperial or even republican. Today they are still tasked with important public order missions)

Authority : Seems pretty simple : the more power the government have the more they can bypass regular process and enforce their whim. I would like to see it tied not only to the letter of the law but also to the political situation : if your power is unstable, your orders have more chances to be treated as suggestions.

influence : a necessary diplomatic currency. I would like to see it tied not only to your diplomatic rank but also to how you play : engaging in pacific diplomacy, holding your promises, working to preserve the balance of power should be rewarded by an increased influence. Engaging in aggressive wars against recognized powers, triggering crisis after crisis a la Wilhelm II, betraying your own word should decrease your influence.
 
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Authority represents the Head of State’s personal power and ability to enact change in the country through decree. It is generated from your Laws - generally, the more repressive and authoritarian the country, the more Authority it will generate - and is used by a variety of actions such as enacting decrees in specific states, interacting with Interest Groups and promoting or banning certain types of Goods. Overall, the purpose of Authority is to create an interesting trade-off between more and less authoritarian societies - by shifting the distribution of power away from the Pops into the hands of the ruler, your ability to rule by decree is increased, and vice versa.
Would those decrees for specific states cover things like incentives for people to migrate to the area, such as the various Homestead Acts in the US?
Influence represents a country’s ability to conduct diplomacy and its reach on the global stage. It is generated primarily from your Rank (Great Powers have more Influence than Major Powers and so on) and is used to support ongoing diplomatic actions and pacts, such as Improving Relations, Alliances, Trade Deals, Subjects and so on. Overall, the purpose of Influence is to force players to make interesting choices about which foreign countries they want to build strong diplomatic relationships with.
Would I be correct in assuming that Alliances with GPs will use more capacity than Alliances with Major Powers, and so on, making it difficult but not hard blocked for a country to be allied with multiple GPs? Or is there a hard block there, like there is in V2, IIRC?
 
M

Mr. Wiggles

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Having some sort of number that represents a country's relationship with your own does not exist either and using it to determine how likely they are to agree to your requests or take aggressive actions against you is also nonsense. The mere act of sending a diplomatic mission won't make a country or their people view your country better either. None of it is grounded in reality and can't be.

If you want to play a game and have fun, some things have to be abstracted to seemingly silly mechanics because there's no good way to fully simulate or represent them otherwise that are completely opaque and not fun to the player.
No it is a meter of your standing relations, I am not against abstraction, if it make sense. The authority capability does not sound bad to me after thinking about it.
 
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Bureaucracy usage scales with the number of people you administrate. Providing education to a million people is ten times more expensive than providing it to a hundred thousand people. There is also a flat cost per incorporated state, to represent the difficulties in governing large territories (even if those territories are depopulated).

I'm curious if any of the devs have read anything from Michael Beckley, a professor at Tufts who has written about nations with large economies due to their large size often underperform. In short, his analysis provides a historical argument for why playing 'tall' is a viable strategy, and he uses the Opium Wars as his example - he also cites Japan v China around the turn of the 20th century and Germany v Russia in WW1.


Slightly longer, but the costs of taking care of a large population can make an economy look large, but if that population is not also productive, than the country in question is not nearly as powerful as it looks. As a shorthand, he multiples GDP by GDP/capita, and uses that to demonstrate that, while a larger country might have a larger economy and perhaps even a larger military, a smaller country can punch far above what it looks like it should.
 
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