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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #2 - Capacities

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Hello and welcome back to another Victoria 3 dev diary! Today we will be talking about three of the four of the main ‘currencies’ of the game - namely Capacities (the last being Money, which we’ll of course come back to later).

We mentioned in the very first dev diary that there is no ‘mana’ in Victoria 3, and since this dev diary is about the game’s “currencies”, I want to be clear on what I mean by that. When we say there is “no mana” we mean that the resources in Victoria 3 arise and are spent in clearly defined ways that are parts of the simulation, not from an overly abstract concept or vague idea. There is, of course, some degree of abstraction involved (all games are abstractions after all), but we want all the game’s currencies to be strongly rooted in the mechanics and not feel arbitrary.

But enough about that and onto Capacities. What exactly are they?

Well, for starters, calling them currencies is actually not accurate. Capacities are not a pooled resource and are not accumulated or spent, but instead, have a constant generation and a constant usage (similar to for example Administrative Capacity in Stellaris), and you generally want to keep your usage from exceeding your generation. Each capacity represents one specific area of your nation’s ability to govern and is used solely for matters relating to that area.

As mentioned, Capacities are not accumulated, so excess generation is not pooled, but instead there is an effect for each Capacity which is positive if generation exceeds usage and quite negative if usage exceeds generation - a country that incorporates territories left and right without expanding its bureaucratic corps may quickly find itself mired in debt as tax collection collapses under the strain!

Bureaucracy represents a nation’s ability to govern, invest in and collect taxes from its incorporated territory. It is produced by the Government Administration building, where many of a nation’s Bureaucrats will be employed. All of a nation’s Incorporated States use a base amount of Bureaucracy which increases with the size of their population, and further increased by each Institution (such as Education or Police - more on those later!) that a country has invested in. Overall, the purpose of Bureaucracy is to ensure that there is a cost to ruling over, taxing and providing for your population - administrating China should not be cheap!

The Swedish Bureaucracy is currently a bit overworked and the country could certainly benefit from another Government Administration building or two.
bureaucracy.PNG

Authority represents the Head of State’s personal power and ability to enact change in the country through decree. It is generated from your Laws - generally, the more repressive and authoritarian the country, the more Authority it will generate - and is used by a variety of actions such as enacting decrees in specific states, interacting with Interest Groups and promoting or banning certain types of Goods. Overall, the purpose of Authority is to create an interesting trade-off between more and less authoritarian societies - by shifting the distribution of power away from the Pops into the hands of the ruler, your ability to rule by decree is increased, and vice versa.

The Swedish King has more Authority at his disposal than he is currently using, slightly speeding up the rate at which laws can be passed.
authority.PNG

Influence represents a country’s ability to conduct diplomacy and its reach on the global stage. It is generated primarily from your Rank (Great Powers have more Influence than Major Powers and so on) and is used to support ongoing diplomatic actions and pacts, such as Improving Relations, Alliances, Trade Deals, Subjects and so on. Overall, the purpose of Influence is to force players to make interesting choices about which foreign countries they want to build strong diplomatic relationships with.

Sweden has plenty of unused Influence and could certainly afford to support another diplomatic pact or two!
influence.png

That’s all for today! Join us again next week as I cover something yet another topic that’s fundamental to Victoria 3: Buildings. See you then!
 
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Will the effects of these things take time to have effect?

Like if I was the US and incorporate everything west of the Mississippi at once, sure I'd go massively over my capacity, but surely citizens won't immediately stop paying as much in taxes straight away. If a government basically lost the ability to police tax evasion because it was so overstretched, it'd take a few years for a Pop who had been used to paying regular taxes to stop?
Because of this I could see definite advantages in the tax efficiency still being done on a state level because I was wondering something similar.

Current tooltips don't seem to indicate that unless the tax efficiency shown is just an aggregate (which could be confusing).
 
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If authority is the capacity of the ruler to make rules without taking seriously the pops, still the only thing is money.
We might just have to agree to disagree on this. You can have a society where the head of state is the direct representative of God, and to say otherwise, to even think otherwise, is treason punishable by death. Or a society where the head of state is routinely the butt of jokes from 49% of the population. They could both pay their soldiers the same, the army could in both cases acknowledge the head of state as their ultimate commander but the leader in the first case has a personal power that the second lacks.

Which is not to say that paying off pops, and people's economic situation doesn't affect the stability and political options of the government. I think V3 will have ample mechanisms for that through the interest groups and loyalist versus radical mechanics.
 
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You’re arguing against yourself here. Mugabe didn’t lose power because he stopped paying the military. He lost power because the military lost faith in his grip on power and abandoned him. In a game, that would require some sort of abstraction to measure. In this case, that’s the Authority Capacity.
I think we simply have different visions about how the game should run, happily for you, it looks that you will get somewhat what you expected
 
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Bureaucracy usage scales with the number of people you administrate. Providing education to a million people is ten times more expensive than providing it to a hundred thousand people.
That's great, but that still does not answer the original question as I understand it.

I guess that what me and the question poster want to know is: would the ratio between bureaucracy cost and state income be the same (everything else being equal) for a country having a hundred thousand people and a counttry having a million people?
 
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I think we simply have different visions about how the game should run, happily for you, it looks that you will get somewhat what you expected
Did Mugabe stop paying those generals or not? If he didn’t, then it isn’t all just about money as you claimed. It comes down to trust, stability, expectations about the future, and a whole bunch of other vague, abstract concepts that can thus only be represented in a video game by an abstraction.
 
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What were diplo points? Colonization points? National focus capacity?
Side features that weren't at the core of the gameplay.

Diplo and colonization points were pretty irrelevant. Diplo to improve relations you wanted to ally/sphere or harm relations of those you wanted to invade. Most of the time I remember sitting on diplo points at cap, not bothering to use them. Colonization wasn't that relevant either if I recall correct.

National focus was pretty important I guess, but I don't know how you'd categorize it as mana? It was magic for sure, as you could just wave your wand and over time people started turning into clergymen for no apparent reason. But that seems acceptable as it was one of the few ways you could carve your country the way you want it to. There was no real abstraction to it, it was just magic. A gameplay tool.
 
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I would like there to be nuance in being over capacity. It's not going to be harder to collect taxes in London just because the UK colonized the Northwest Territories. It should mean that the new state or whatever is a drain on resources rather or has fewer benefits than it otherwise could. Maybe there's some distinction of local vs central bureaucracy. You can move all your bureaucrats to London but if you over task them, everywhere suffers equally. Or you build government buildings (and tell/pay bureaucrats to move overseas to work in them), in which case being over capacity penalizes places with a short fall more heavily.

I don't think a global -10 to tax efficiency is a good fit for this period. As capacities rise from the game state, so should the penalties.
 
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Side features that weren't at the core of the gameplay.

Diplo and colonization points were pretty irrelevant. Diplo to improve relations you wanted to ally/sphere or harm relations of those you wanted to invade. Most of the time I remember sitting on diplo points at cap, not bothering to use them. Colonization wasn't that relevant either if I recall correct.

National focus was pretty important I guess, but I don't know how you'd categorize it as mana? It was magic for sure, as you could just wave your wand and over time people started turning into clergymen for no apparent reason. But that seems acceptable as it was one of the few ways you could carve your country the way you want it to. There was no real abstraction to it, it was just magic. A gameplay tool.
Colonization wasn’t important in Vicky 2? National focuses weren’t abstract?

I’m going to be honest. I don’t think you have a clear cut definition of what any of these terms you’re throwing around mean.
 
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Thank you, I understand what you are saying but to me influence is not spent, it is a meter of actions/pacts/warring/agreements you perform or are at least are allowed to perform.
Influence is nothing, it does not exist
Influence isn't spent in this current system either. It's not a resource to build up. The number is just an abstraction for how much influence you can exert (in this case, understandably, Great Powers have a greater degree of influence than minor or unrecognized states).

If you exceed that capacity, you're starting to stretch your influential capabilities and will start to see some sort of penalties for doing so. A law may be passed to alter this type of influence, or maybe a new research or new commodity as well. It's just a capacity and in this case it's done in an explicit nature.

You can be frustrated that it has a concrete value, but depending on your level of pedantry the reality is that the values, whether visible to the player or not, are converted in some way into numerical values by virtue of being a computer game.
 
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I've read the thread. Here are my thoughts:

I'm very concerned about these capacity mechanics as they've been presented. They look like they've been ripped straight out of Stellaris/EU4- two games that Vicky 3 should not be striving to be like. EU4's governing capacity and Stellaris' empire sprawl/admin capacity should not be the model for Victoria 3.

Why? It results in a lack of regionalism. Human geography is necessary to make different regions distinct and interesting. It's not fun if you just click a couple buttons on a menu to choose whether you want province A or province B to be integrated. Integrating specific regions should be a complex and dynamic process- not just choosing where to allocate your bureaucracy tokens.

Take Qing China in Vicky 2, for instance. You couldn't just stack a bunch of Manchu bureaucrats in Beijing and Manchuria and have them file tax papers from Yunnan. If you wanted to integrate Yunnan, you would have to assimilate or relocate Manchu citizens to that state and promote enough to bureaucrats so you could exert influence over the area.

TL;DR I am very concerned that these capacities will oversimplify and overabstract the game in the vein of Stellaris/EU4. I strongly hope the developers change the system away from this centralized point-based model.
 
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I've thread the thread. Here are my thoughts:

I'm very concerned about these capacity mechanics as they've been presented. They look like they've been ripped straight out of Stellaris/EU4- two games that Vicky 3 should not be striving to be like. EU4's governing capacity and Stellaris' empire sprawl/admin capacity should not be the model for Victoria 3.

Why? It results in a lack of regionalism. Human geography is necessary to make different regions distinct and interesting. It's not fun if you just click a couple buttons on a menu to choose whether you want province A or province B to be integrated. Integrating specific regions should be a complex and dynamic process- not just choosing where to allocate your bureaucracy tokens.

Take Qing China in Vicky 2, for instance. You couldn't just stack a bunch of Manchu bureaucrats in Beijing and Manchuria and have them file tax papers from Yunnan. If you wanted to integrate Yunnan, you would have to assimilate or relocate Manchu citizens to that state and promote enough to bureaucrats so you could exert influence over the area.

TL;DR I am very concerned that these capacities will oversimplify and overabstract the game in the vein of Stellaris/EU4. I strongly hope the developers change the system away from this centralized point-based model.
The way they’ve talked about infrastructure working mitigates this to a degree (low infrastructure in a state will limit its integration into the national market and make pops dependent on local production), but I agree that it is a point of concern.

It could be, though, that bureaucrats generate some kind of local service that impacts out on a state level only, not the national level. I hope this is the case.
 
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What was the concept national focus is supposed to represent within the game world? It had no such thing, it was just a magic spell the player cast on a province to influence pop behavior.
It’s supposed to represent the nation focusing its efforts on a particular goal. How is that not an abstraction?
 
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Integrating specific regions should be a complex and dynamic process- not just choosing where to allocate your bureaucracy tokens.

I don't think bureaucracy will be the main impediment to integrating a region. We will have to see how cultures and nationalism work. I think you will need a lot of factors working in your favour to get maximum benefit from a given state. For instance, if the pops in a state hate you, they are probably radicals, and that has lots of implications for productivity and public order.

Hopefully global bureaucratic capacity isn't the only thing that affects tax efficiency in a region. Maybe degree of radicalism or other pop-level factors make a big difference as well.
 
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One of the big issues of this time period was the professionalization of the Bureaucracy. You had a wide range of things from the Prussian civil service to the American spoils system in high "capacity" nations, to outright patronage networks of the landed gentry in places like Latin America and "uncivs." Will there be some reflection of this range of variety, as well as the often bitter civil strife from them?
 
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The way they’ve talked about infrastructure working mitigates this to a degree (low infrastructure in a state will limit its integration into the national market and make pops dependent on local production), but I agree that it is a point of concern.

It could be, though, that bureaucrats generate some kind of local service that impacts out on a state level only, not the national level. I hope this is the case.
I really hope you're right. But from what they've presented, I don't believe that this is the design path they are currently taking. It seems as if they are taking a page out of the books of EU4 and Stellaris here.
 
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I don't think bureaucracy will be the main impediment to integrating a region. We will have to see how cultures and nationalism work. I think you will need a lot of factors working in your favour to get maximum benefit from a given state. For instance, if the pops in a state hate you, they are probably radicals, and that has lots of implications for productivity and public order.

Hopefully global bureaucratic capacity isn't the only thing that affects tax efficiency in a region. Maybe degree of radicalism or other pop-level factors make a big difference as well.
They’ve said turmoil lowers taxation on the state level (in addition to many other things, probably). So I think this is part of the design of the game.
 
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