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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #2 - Capacities

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Hello and welcome back to another Victoria 3 dev diary! Today we will be talking about three of the four of the main ‘currencies’ of the game - namely Capacities (the last being Money, which we’ll of course come back to later).

We mentioned in the very first dev diary that there is no ‘mana’ in Victoria 3, and since this dev diary is about the game’s “currencies”, I want to be clear on what I mean by that. When we say there is “no mana” we mean that the resources in Victoria 3 arise and are spent in clearly defined ways that are parts of the simulation, not from an overly abstract concept or vague idea. There is, of course, some degree of abstraction involved (all games are abstractions after all), but we want all the game’s currencies to be strongly rooted in the mechanics and not feel arbitrary.

But enough about that and onto Capacities. What exactly are they?

Well, for starters, calling them currencies is actually not accurate. Capacities are not a pooled resource and are not accumulated or spent, but instead, have a constant generation and a constant usage (similar to for example Administrative Capacity in Stellaris), and you generally want to keep your usage from exceeding your generation. Each capacity represents one specific area of your nation’s ability to govern and is used solely for matters relating to that area.

As mentioned, Capacities are not accumulated, so excess generation is not pooled, but instead there is an effect for each Capacity which is positive if generation exceeds usage and quite negative if usage exceeds generation - a country that incorporates territories left and right without expanding its bureaucratic corps may quickly find itself mired in debt as tax collection collapses under the strain!

Bureaucracy represents a nation’s ability to govern, invest in and collect taxes from its incorporated territory. It is produced by the Government Administration building, where many of a nation’s Bureaucrats will be employed. All of a nation’s Incorporated States use a base amount of Bureaucracy which increases with the size of their population, and further increased by each Institution (such as Education or Police - more on those later!) that a country has invested in. Overall, the purpose of Bureaucracy is to ensure that there is a cost to ruling over, taxing and providing for your population - administrating China should not be cheap!

The Swedish Bureaucracy is currently a bit overworked and the country could certainly benefit from another Government Administration building or two.
bureaucracy.PNG

Authority represents the Head of State’s personal power and ability to enact change in the country through decree. It is generated from your Laws - generally, the more repressive and authoritarian the country, the more Authority it will generate - and is used by a variety of actions such as enacting decrees in specific states, interacting with Interest Groups and promoting or banning certain types of Goods. Overall, the purpose of Authority is to create an interesting trade-off between more and less authoritarian societies - by shifting the distribution of power away from the Pops into the hands of the ruler, your ability to rule by decree is increased, and vice versa.

The Swedish King has more Authority at his disposal than he is currently using, slightly speeding up the rate at which laws can be passed.
authority.PNG

Influence represents a country’s ability to conduct diplomacy and its reach on the global stage. It is generated primarily from your Rank (Great Powers have more Influence than Major Powers and so on) and is used to support ongoing diplomatic actions and pacts, such as Improving Relations, Alliances, Trade Deals, Subjects and so on. Overall, the purpose of Influence is to force players to make interesting choices about which foreign countries they want to build strong diplomatic relationships with.

Sweden has plenty of unused Influence and could certainly afford to support another diplomatic pact or two!
influence.png

That’s all for today! Join us again next week as I cover something yet another topic that’s fundamental to Victoria 3: Buildings. See you then!
 
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How are they like EU4 points? The whole point of capacities is that they aren't like Monarch points from EU4
The Paradox fan's brain has has been wired to see all abstractions represented by numbers as mana for some reason. Despite the fact gold and prestige have never been considered "mana" because the represent real concepts that make sense.
 
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An hyper-bureaucratic country should have some drawbacks ( i.e. the way you want to regulate any activity could be feeled oppressive or brings to inefficiencies)
having more bureaucrats than you need is generally a good thing for a state, even if a waste of the treasury's money
An hyper-authoritarian country should have bigger problems with any libertarian parts of the population
I guess that's a given
An hyper-influencing country could be faced by other countries which may have concern about the international status-quo
it doesn't have a lot to do with influence per see, but rather with power, influence only measures your usage of that influence
and how do you get the paper?
Import it or produced it, me and my colleagues were actually talking about the paper trade in the Portuguese empire and how that was essential for the bureaucracy
Isnt money mana with extra steps there is no reason a building have to cost that specfic amount of money
how long can we play with definitions until real-life money becomes mana?
Like, did you think it really just costs money to build things
yes, after all gold spawns raw resources and moves things into place, or so many games have taught
1) money are tangible
2) you get money from taxing people
money isn't actually tangible in all games except vicky 2, and even vicky 2 it's sketchy because higher levels shipyards cost more for no reason
in most games "money" makes the following path aether>treasury>aether
Isn't that even the most important thing for an Absolute Monarch. As long as the people with the pointed sticks are on your side, the rest can be beaten in rank and file.
any competent absolute monarch wouldn't waste resources beating people up for no reason
 
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I actually suggested something very similar in a thread long ago, and got massively downvoted for it. In my suggestion you could spend less of your capacity on a project in exchange for it taking more time and vice versa.
 
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Not to keen on how capacities are portrayed as it stands tbh. Bureaucracy is pretty good, coming forth from pops. Not too sold on the building component though. It does make a degree of sense that you need to provide workplaces for your bureaucrats but on the other hand I don't really see what it adds to the game except for forcing you to spend time on building them. Seems more sensible to automate this as you bureaucracy grows, but if the building system isn't too cumbersome it probably won't be that big of a deal.
However both authority and influence seem extremely shallow to me:
Authority seems mainly bad in my view because of what it is spent on (apparently free infrastructure maintenance because the king said so? Why would a full-functioning democracy be less good at maintaining infrastructure than a dictatorship, I see little reason for this - maintenance itself should just be determined by builder pops being available and the goods needed to maintain the infrastructure...). If it was being used as a more direct way to influence interest groups, for instance suppressing one, which I assume from what is being said is at least also something that can be done with it, that would seem a lot more logical, as is the cost in authority to levy excises and to ban certain items. The way I see it, since authority is something more authoritarian countries primarily benefit from, it should be about political repression (suppression of the clout of certain interests groups at the cost of angering their supporters) and banning/encumbering certain things on either a local or national level. Active government behavior that is already within the sphere of government activity, like the maintenance of collective services (including maintenance of infrastructure) should not be impacted by this, because a democracy with an efficient bureaucracy that can make sure the resources are there and the workers are paid for are just as capable of maintaining and building infrastructure as a dictatorship under the same conditions, whereas a corrupt dictatorship where half the resources for that railway are being embezzled is much less capable of doing so than that aforementioned democracy.
Influence on the other hand, unlike authority is sensible in how it's spent (namely diplomatic relations). However, this one misses the mark in my view because of how it's being generated. It looks extremely static from what we can see here: it's just a base value, that is augmented by the power level of the country in question and then the ruler. This leaves very little agency to your ability to influence your influence, which de-facto makes it amount to a slightly expanded EU4 diplomat-limit. Not great in my opinion. I am not entirely sure how to improve it though. Perhaps it could be something you can spend bureaucratic power on while the size of your country expands how much you get from spending a certain amount of bureaucratic power on it using the percentage system.
Furthermore, I don't really like how prominent the ruler traits are to this system: it does make sense for authority, as quite widely it represents dictator's power over their dictatorship, executive orders of the president of the United States and the political endeavors of the (only lowly developed) constitutional monarchies of Europe. However, the influence on influence is rather out there tbh, the notion that because the monarch is so good you can have more alliances seems extremely arbitrary. I would much rather see this being influenced by what interests groups make up your government (certain interest groups could be more interested in exerting soft power for instance) or even better, if this is modeled, your foreign minister. While the screenshot we were given does not show this, if bureaucracy can be arbitrarily influenced by the head of state as well in a similar way that shouldn't happen either in my view, instead being determined by your IGs and/or minister of internal affairs or head of government. As I see it, Ruler traits would be better influencing only the Authority capacity, and do other things such as generally impacting stability (a popular monarch could decrease radicalization, and vice versa) that do not directly make it more or less possible to steer the ship of state.
 
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The penalty for going over the capacity should not be so narrow, or it will be too easy to exploit. e.g. Putting taxes to 0 and getting income from just tariffs in order to ignore bureaucratic capacity. Maybe "tax waste" already accounts for other kinds of revenue.
 
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To make sure a law stays you don´t need a "capacity" you need policemen to enforce it, jails to punish, jail workers to keep the ofenders in, Judges, lawyers local government, etc. That costs money and population, and being this a game about economy and population creating an abstract nunmber as capacity looks lazy.

I think we will see something like that in having a high level of policing to suppress radical pops (which requires you hire the police/lawyers/judges represented by bureaucrats). There's also the game having the laws shifts towards the desires of the powerful interest groups (and the desire to keep certain groups less powerful or less politically conscious).

I think authority is something a bit different. It is supposed to represent the personal authority of the leader and those in the "chain of command", and the perceived legitimacy of that authority in the wider society. So the authority can be used to accomplish things by decree instead of going through the process of changing the laws. Or can be used to limit the influence of certain classes of people in society because that's the way the leader wants it (suppressing interest groups). If you don't like it, say hello to prison because the leader said so.

It's still possible for the leader to push their personal authority too far and it starts to seem too arbitrary and unacceptable and unconstitutional and I guess that would lead to cratering support among interest groups or higher risk of a coup or something. Where the limits of the leader's personal authority lie depend on the constitution and the laws of the land.
 
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But the money in these games ARE mana the costs are completely arbitrary a church in eu 4 almost always costs 100 gold what does 100 gold mean why does it cost this much why can I accumulate so much money its essentially worthless?
That is not how it worked in Vic 2, Railroads or Naval Bases required resourses (lumber, steel, cement etc.) the monetary cost is the price of purchasing these goods and it varied depending on the market price and sometime these goods not availlable at all to your nation. In V3 seems they are adding hiring construction workers as an addional input to building construction costs
 
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That is not how it worked in Vic 2, Railroads or Naval Bases required resourses (lumber, steel, cement etc.) the monetary cost is the price of purchasing these goods and it varied depending on the market price and sometime these goods not availlable at all to your nation. In V3 seems they are adding hiring construction workers as an addional input to building construction costs
Yeah, buildings cost goods to construct (which goods depend on the method of construction used, if you're building say wooden or steel-and-glass buildings) which are subject to market prices and impact the market in turn.
 
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The way I see it, since authority is something more authoritarian countries primarily benefit from, it should be about political repression (suppression of the clout of certain interests groups at the cost of angering their supporters) and banning/encumbering certain things on either a local or national level.
Honestly, I see that as the main use. It's kind of unfortunate that an edict about road maintenance is the main way authority happens to be spent in the screenshot. Edicts are just one way to use authority, and forced labour to maintain the basic roads without paying for it happens to be one type of edict. I would be seriously disappointed if most uses are like that, or if there isn't a way to maintain the roads through normal treasury mechanisms.
 
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Honestly, I see that as the main use. It's kind of unfortunate that an edict about road maintenance is the main way authority happens to be spent in the screenshot. Edicts are just one way to use authority, and forced labour to maintain the basic roads without paying for it happens to be one type of edict. I would be seriously disappointed if most uses are like that, or if there isn't a way to maintain the roads through normal treasury mechanisms.
Wiz already answered that question. The main way of maintaining infrastructure is through the treasury, authority is used to maintain statewide decrees, basically national focuses from vic2, one of which makes railroad maintenance cost authority rather than money.
 
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This is the idea yes, the king exercising his personal power on pet projects.
I like the sound of this, and I’m glad that one of my questions from before (Can you have consumption taxes on alcohol, like Russia before WWI?) has been answered.

I don’t love what I’m seeing about authority. How does this interact with the system where you trade horses with interest groups to pass laws? Are you allowed a certain number of pet projects on top?

Does Freedom of Conscience boost Authority (Huh?) or is that a situation where the monarch made a deal to get his roads, in exchange for repealing religious tests? That would be very intriguing.
 
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Wiz already answered that question. The main way of maintaining infrastructure is through the treasury, authority is used to maintain statewide decrees, basically national focuses from vic2, one of which makes railroad maintenance cost authority rather than money.

Does this mean that all infrastructure is maintained through treasury? E.g. all railway workers are government employees?
 
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I don’t love what I’m seeing about authority. How is this interacting with the system where you trade horses with interest groups to pass laws? Are you allowed a certain number of pet projects on top?
The way I read it, you can spend your authority on pet projects (decrees) or spend it on suppressing/promoting the power of certain interest groups in order to get your desired laws passed.
 
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I think we will see something like that in having a high level of policing to suppress radical pops (which requires you hire the police/lawyers/judges represented by bureaucrats). There's also the game having the laws shifts towards the desires of the powerful interest groups (and the desire to keep certain groups less powerful or less politically conscious).

I think authority is something a bit different. It is supposed to represent the personal authority of the leader and those in the "chain of command", and the perceived legitimacy of that authority in the wider society. So the authority can be used to accomplish things by decree instead of going through the process of changing the laws. Or can be used to limit the influence of certain classes of people in society because that's the way the leader wants it (suppressing interest groups). If you don't like it, say hello to prison because the leader said so.

It's still possible for the leader to push their personal authority too far and it starts to seem too arbitrary and unacceptable and unconstitutional and I guess that would lead to cratering support among interest groups or higher risk of a coup or something. Where the limits of the leader's personal authority lie depend on the constitution and the laws of the land.

Maybe is because english is not my first language and it costs me more to explain myself. Authority, diplomacy, power are not abstract things and they shouldn´t be treated as such. If authority is the capacity of the ruler to make rules without taking seriously the pops, still the only thing is money. The military the lawyers, the policemen as i said before are the way you show authority, if they are loyal to you you can crush the revolts, to give an extreme example, Robert Mugabe´s dictatorship, he was a very bad dictator to the population, but he kept the power as far as he could keep loyal the military. The moment the military show that Mugabe was dieing, they simply swap sides to be still in power. How do you pay the military? with money.

If you live in a Democracy, the goverment can´t usually crush you violently, but they use more subtle ways. If you hear the news usually the media is a private owned corporotions, and if they dislike the government they will probably go against it. If they are loyal they will say in the news how good the government is to keep the status quo that helps them. How do you make them loyal? You give them money in subtle ways, you give them tax exemptions, right to show something on their media, increase the number of ads per minute or page etc. Have you ever wondered why usually governments give rights just when the legislature is ending and the elections are coming? They are trying to atract voters to their cause. It´s certainly miracolous how many parties say they are going to lower the taxes and in the moment they become the government they rise them. Also usually they create roads, parks and better living conditions when the voting comes.

Authority and governing capacity or whatever is just money spent in what is more important. If you are an autocracy you will spend the money on violent direct control, in Democracies you will have to make peoples lives better or slightly better to be accepted.

That´s why i dislike the capacities, not because they are neccesarily a bad mechanic, which probably has a lot of thought and countless hours in front of a computer working on it; but because it can be done in another more engaging ways that has more to do with a simulation. Abstract numbers are a gamey mechanic.
 
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