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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #2 - Capacities

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Hello and welcome back to another Victoria 3 dev diary! Today we will be talking about three of the four of the main ‘currencies’ of the game - namely Capacities (the last being Money, which we’ll of course come back to later).

We mentioned in the very first dev diary that there is no ‘mana’ in Victoria 3, and since this dev diary is about the game’s “currencies”, I want to be clear on what I mean by that. When we say there is “no mana” we mean that the resources in Victoria 3 arise and are spent in clearly defined ways that are parts of the simulation, not from an overly abstract concept or vague idea. There is, of course, some degree of abstraction involved (all games are abstractions after all), but we want all the game’s currencies to be strongly rooted in the mechanics and not feel arbitrary.

But enough about that and onto Capacities. What exactly are they?

Well, for starters, calling them currencies is actually not accurate. Capacities are not a pooled resource and are not accumulated or spent, but instead, have a constant generation and a constant usage (similar to for example Administrative Capacity in Stellaris), and you generally want to keep your usage from exceeding your generation. Each capacity represents one specific area of your nation’s ability to govern and is used solely for matters relating to that area.

As mentioned, Capacities are not accumulated, so excess generation is not pooled, but instead there is an effect for each Capacity which is positive if generation exceeds usage and quite negative if usage exceeds generation - a country that incorporates territories left and right without expanding its bureaucratic corps may quickly find itself mired in debt as tax collection collapses under the strain!

Bureaucracy represents a nation’s ability to govern, invest in and collect taxes from its incorporated territory. It is produced by the Government Administration building, where many of a nation’s Bureaucrats will be employed. All of a nation’s Incorporated States use a base amount of Bureaucracy which increases with the size of their population, and further increased by each Institution (such as Education or Police - more on those later!) that a country has invested in. Overall, the purpose of Bureaucracy is to ensure that there is a cost to ruling over, taxing and providing for your population - administrating China should not be cheap!

The Swedish Bureaucracy is currently a bit overworked and the country could certainly benefit from another Government Administration building or two.
bureaucracy.PNG

Authority represents the Head of State’s personal power and ability to enact change in the country through decree. It is generated from your Laws - generally, the more repressive and authoritarian the country, the more Authority it will generate - and is used by a variety of actions such as enacting decrees in specific states, interacting with Interest Groups and promoting or banning certain types of Goods. Overall, the purpose of Authority is to create an interesting trade-off between more and less authoritarian societies - by shifting the distribution of power away from the Pops into the hands of the ruler, your ability to rule by decree is increased, and vice versa.

The Swedish King has more Authority at his disposal than he is currently using, slightly speeding up the rate at which laws can be passed.
authority.PNG

Influence represents a country’s ability to conduct diplomacy and its reach on the global stage. It is generated primarily from your Rank (Great Powers have more Influence than Major Powers and so on) and is used to support ongoing diplomatic actions and pacts, such as Improving Relations, Alliances, Trade Deals, Subjects and so on. Overall, the purpose of Influence is to force players to make interesting choices about which foreign countries they want to build strong diplomatic relationships with.

Sweden has plenty of unused Influence and could certainly afford to support another diplomatic pact or two!
influence.png

That’s all for today! Join us again next week as I cover something yet another topic that’s fundamental to Victoria 3: Buildings. See you then!
 
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The more I learn about vicky3, the more I love it.

I think capacities will be a really nice mechanic to play with. You can choose to focus on something or something else with some limitations because, of course, nothing is unlimited and everything comes with a price. Despite it, we can understand there will be no hard caps on things like population size in a state, so indirectly, on admin capacities/industries/etc. and I think it's great.

Also, the more we will be able to manage the cost of bureaucracy in our states, the more we will save precious educated pops in doing something more profitable.

And of course : you managed to lowering the price of paper in your market ? Great, administration "profitability" is better !

Every good needed to sustain an """unproductive""" job is a good lost for the """productive""" parts of the population. So that should be interesting to balance that !

In vicky 3, we will have to think in a "systemic" way, and I love it. Thank you paradoxe and devs :) you're on a really good way to make a great great game !
 
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Influence would be a lot harder to tie to POPs. Maybe something to do with how well met the needs of upper class pops in your capital are? Just to sort of link it to how wining and dining ambassadors well enough was vital for forging diplomatic ties in this era.

I have an idea: How about a slider to assign POPs to domestic/foreign civil service? The higher the percentage of bureaucrats assigned to foreign civil service, the higher it boosts your Influence rating BUT at the expense of your Bureaucracy for Domestic policies.
 
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Probably you're going to talk about this later but will technology, laws or government types affect this "currencies"? It would be cool to play as China, manage to modernize and see how, as you start to catch up with the rest of the world technologywise, your country starts to work properly as your technologic advances pair with the creation of burocratic offices.
 
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@Wizzington your team looks like it has done a lot of work and I'm excited to see what is unveiled in the coming months. I remember you saying several years ago on one of the streams Paradox didn't want to just release a reskinned Vic2 and the effort to improve the series shows. There have been several negative comments, and I just wanted your team to know the work is appreciated. The shear amount of responses indicates the interest so keep that in mind.

As to the negative comments, these dev diaries are using a microscope to look at a picture just remember that. We have a tiny slice of info and jumping to conclusions is counterproductive. Also filter by dev responses before you post, several questions have already been answered.
 
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1) money are tangible
2) you get money from taxing people

1) influence is not tangible and not measurable
2) you get influence from??

Money is not tangible, I am sorry. Money is absolutely "clap your hands if you believe" magic. It only works because everyone believes it works. Money, in fact, is the absolutely apotheosis of mana irl.
 
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Money isn't mana because it's used in the real world. Governments that build bridges, or maintain armies, usually pay for them with money. It's not an absract resource because it's something that actually exists in the world. The government of France spends money and recruits people to serve in its armies; but there is not a warehouse somewhere that stores "military points" for the French government.
Bruh, the very definition of money is an abstraction of material goods/services.
 
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Would be nice to be able to train a Diplomatic corps to increase your influence. Allowing you to play as a diplomatic heavyweight while being a relative minor power.
 
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How are they like EU4 points? The whole point of capacities is that they aren't like Monarch points from EU4
The Paradox fan's brain has has been wired to see all abstractions represented by numbers as mana for some reason. Despite the fact gold and prestige have never been considered "mana" because the represent real concepts that make sense.
 
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An hyper-bureaucratic country should have some drawbacks ( i.e. the way you want to regulate any activity could be feeled oppressive or brings to inefficiencies)
having more bureaucrats than you need is generally a good thing for a state, even if a waste of the treasury's money
An hyper-authoritarian country should have bigger problems with any libertarian parts of the population
I guess that's a given
An hyper-influencing country could be faced by other countries which may have concern about the international status-quo
it doesn't have a lot to do with influence per see, but rather with power, influence only measures your usage of that influence
and how do you get the paper?
Import it or produced it, me and my colleagues were actually talking about the paper trade in the Portuguese empire and how that was essential for the bureaucracy
Isnt money mana with extra steps there is no reason a building have to cost that specfic amount of money
how long can we play with definitions until real-life money becomes mana?
Like, did you think it really just costs money to build things
yes, after all gold spawns raw resources and moves things into place, or so many games have taught
1) money are tangible
2) you get money from taxing people
money isn't actually tangible in all games except vicky 2, and even vicky 2 it's sketchy because higher levels shipyards cost more for no reason
in most games "money" makes the following path aether>treasury>aether
Isn't that even the most important thing for an Absolute Monarch. As long as the people with the pointed sticks are on your side, the rest can be beaten in rank and file.
any competent absolute monarch wouldn't waste resources beating people up for no reason
 
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I actually suggested something very similar in a thread long ago, and got massively downvoted for it. In my suggestion you could spend less of your capacity on a project in exchange for it taking more time and vice versa.
 
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  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
Not to keen on how capacities are portrayed as it stands tbh. Bureaucracy is pretty good, coming forth from pops. Not too sold on the building component though. It does make a degree of sense that you need to provide workplaces for your bureaucrats but on the other hand I don't really see what it adds to the game except for forcing you to spend time on building them. Seems more sensible to automate this as you bureaucracy grows, but if the building system isn't too cumbersome it probably won't be that big of a deal.
However both authority and influence seem extremely shallow to me:
Authority seems mainly bad in my view because of what it is spent on (apparently free infrastructure maintenance because the king said so? Why would a full-functioning democracy be less good at maintaining infrastructure than a dictatorship, I see little reason for this - maintenance itself should just be determined by builder pops being available and the goods needed to maintain the infrastructure...). If it was being used as a more direct way to influence interest groups, for instance suppressing one, which I assume from what is being said is at least also something that can be done with it, that would seem a lot more logical, as is the cost in authority to levy excises and to ban certain items. The way I see it, since authority is something more authoritarian countries primarily benefit from, it should be about political repression (suppression of the clout of certain interests groups at the cost of angering their supporters) and banning/encumbering certain things on either a local or national level. Active government behavior that is already within the sphere of government activity, like the maintenance of collective services (including maintenance of infrastructure) should not be impacted by this, because a democracy with an efficient bureaucracy that can make sure the resources are there and the workers are paid for are just as capable of maintaining and building infrastructure as a dictatorship under the same conditions, whereas a corrupt dictatorship where half the resources for that railway are being embezzled is much less capable of doing so than that aforementioned democracy.
Influence on the other hand, unlike authority is sensible in how it's spent (namely diplomatic relations). However, this one misses the mark in my view because of how it's being generated. It looks extremely static from what we can see here: it's just a base value, that is augmented by the power level of the country in question and then the ruler. This leaves very little agency to your ability to influence your influence, which de-facto makes it amount to a slightly expanded EU4 diplomat-limit. Not great in my opinion. I am not entirely sure how to improve it though. Perhaps it could be something you can spend bureaucratic power on while the size of your country expands how much you get from spending a certain amount of bureaucratic power on it using the percentage system.
Furthermore, I don't really like how prominent the ruler traits are to this system: it does make sense for authority, as quite widely it represents dictator's power over their dictatorship, executive orders of the president of the United States and the political endeavors of the (only lowly developed) constitutional monarchies of Europe. However, the influence on influence is rather out there tbh, the notion that because the monarch is so good you can have more alliances seems extremely arbitrary. I would much rather see this being influenced by what interests groups make up your government (certain interest groups could be more interested in exerting soft power for instance) or even better, if this is modeled, your foreign minister. While the screenshot we were given does not show this, if bureaucracy can be arbitrarily influenced by the head of state as well in a similar way that shouldn't happen either in my view, instead being determined by your IGs and/or minister of internal affairs or head of government. As I see it, Ruler traits would be better influencing only the Authority capacity, and do other things such as generally impacting stability (a popular monarch could decrease radicalization, and vice versa) that do not directly make it more or less possible to steer the ship of state.
 
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