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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #16 - States

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It’s Thursday again and that means it’s time for another Victoria 3 dev diary! Today’s dev diary is going to be a little bit different in that it will mostly be about collecting and further explaining the various mechanics that tie into States. There might not be a whole lot of new information here for people who have been closely following the development, but we feel it’s important to put all this information in the same place and clarify a few points.

So then, onto the topic of States. States, as we have previously touched on, are the main political-geographical unit of Victoria 3, where pops live and buildings are built. Before we proceed it will be useful to understand the difference between States and State Regions. A State is always controlled by a single country and its borders are dynamic (can change over the course of the game, including being created and destroyed), while State Regions can contain 1 or several States and have static borders (unchanging throughout the game). If a single country owns all provinces within a State Region, there is no practical difference between these concepts. But if more than one country owns provinces within a single State Region, they will each control individual States within it.

For example, the State Region of Rhineland is a predetermined set of provinces on the border of France that in 1836 contains two States: Prussian Rhineland (actually just called Rhineland because it contains more than half the land in the region) and Bavarian Rhineland (called Bavarian Rhineland to distinguish it from the Prussian parts), a concept that we call a Split State. Over the course of the game, which exact provinces make up the State Region of Rhineland will never change, but the States might. If France was to conquer the Prussian Rhineland, there would of course no longer be a Prussian Rhineland but a French Rhineland, and if Prussia were to conquer the Bavarian Rhineland, the entire State Region would be unified into a single Prussian State.

Political control of the State Region of Rajputana is split between numerous Indian Princes, none of which control enough of the region for their part to be considered Rajputana proper.
2021_08_31_1.png

In addition to political ownership, there are a number of conditions that can apply to a State that affects the local population and economy. First of all, there is something called Incorporation Status, representing a State’s political status within the country that owns it. The different Incorporation States are as follows:
  • Incorporated State: A state that is a fully integrated political unit in the country. This state incurs full bureaucracy costs, pays all forms of taxes required by the government, and gets the benefit of all national Institutions.
  • Unincorporated State: A state that is owned but only very lightly administered by the country, such as frontier states. Unincorporated states do not incur any bureaucracy costs but only pay certain taxes (such as Consumption Taxes), get no benefits from national Institutions and have reduced Infrastructure.
  • Colonial State: A state that is considered to be an overseas colony. Works similarly to an Unincorporated State, but also gets increased immigration at the expense of even lower Infrastructure.

It is possible to Incorporate any Unincorporated/Colonial State as long as you have the Bureaucracy that would be needed to properly administer it, but this can be a rocky process - while the increased costs kick in immediately, the benefits (taxes, institutions and so on) are only gradually phased in over time. The time it takes depends on how easy it is for your country to integrate the local population - it would be a lot more difficult for Britain to incorporate an Indian state than it would be for them to incorporate the Falklands, for example.

Other conditions that can apply to a State include (not an exhaustive list):
  • Capital State: The political capital of a country. All Pops living in the Capital State have increased political power.
  • Market Capital: The economic capital of a country. Has increased Infrastructure and Migration Attraction.
  • Turmoil: A State that has too many political radicals (as a percentage of population) will experience Turmoil. A State with Turmoil suffers penalties in the form of increased Tax Waste and reduced Migration Attraction. These penalties can be reduced by investing into the Police institution.

Pennsylvania is an Incorporated State, contributing both taxes and a star on the flag to the United States of America.
2021_08_31_3.png

States can also inherit certain conditions from their State Regions, including:
  • State Traits: As explained in the Infrastructure dev diary, these represent a wide variety of geographical features that have an impact on the economy, infrastructure and/or population of the entire State Region.
  • Claims: A State Region can be claimed by a country that does not currently own it but are broadly considered to have a legitimate reason to think that maybe they should. We’ll come back to this when talking about diplomacy and war.
  • Homelands: Every Culture has one or more State Regions that most people in that Culture consider to be their natural homeland. This does not consider the views of anyone else outside that Culture (ie, the Swedes don’t get any say in which State Regions the Russians consider to be their homelands and vice versa), and has certain effects that we will go over in later dev diaries.

Guano was a central pillar of the Peruvian economy in the mid-19th century, and a war was even fought over control of the Chincha Islands between Spain and Peru (the icon for this particular State Trait is a placeholder)
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As mentioned all the way back in the dev diary about Buildings, States are limited in which Resource Industry Building Types they can support and how large these can get. For example, the degree of Iron deposits in a state limits how many levels of Iron Mine you can build there. These resource limits are actually a property of State Regions, which is dynamically allocated to the States in the region based on how large of a share the State holds.

It’s worth noting that this proportion isn’t just based on the raw number of provinces owned. As an example, potential for Fisheries are distributed according to the amount of coastline a State has in the State Region, while Arable Land land can be heavily weighted by the amount of Prime Land is in each State. While not applicable everywhere, Prime Land is something we use in states where there is a clear division between fertile and non-fertile land - control of the Nile should matter a lot more to a State in Upper Egypt’s Arable Land than control of the surrounding desert, for example.

It’s also possible for a State Region to contain Discoverable Resources. These are resources such as Oil, Gold or Rubber that are either not known about or not considered exploitable at the start of the game, but may be discovered and exploited at a later point. Certain technologies will affect both which resources can be discovered and the actual chance of said resource being discovered. All of this functions in a weighted random fashion, so while the chance of there being a Klondike gold rush at some point during the game is high, it probably won’t happen exactly at the same date it did historically.

There may or may not be gold in them hills!
2021_08_31_2.png

Alright then, that’s all for today! Next week we’ll be continuing on the topic of Politics as I explain how Migration works.
 
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Illicitline45

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Two questions:

1- If, let's say, an alliance of multiple nations goes to war and defeats France, and one provence inte same State Region (let's say Paris') is given to each member of the alliance, will there be a number of States equal to the number of provinces controlled by different entities, or will there be a cap, or even will no new state be created at all?

2-To stay on the same theme, if I conquer a new State, will that State become an Unincorporated State, or will it fall under Martial Law(if anything lake that exists)? What if it was a part of the country that reconquered it from another nation, so that State had the homland trait for that culture; will it become an Incorporated State like before, will it be at a lower "level" of incorporation, or will it just be an Unicorporated State, or will it even fall under Martial Law (again, if anything like that exists)?
 

Acaios

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I strongly, strongly suggest you to change names. They are unnecessarily confusing and also wrong from a formal point of view.

I would suggest to call "state regions" simply "regions". "regions" are static geographical entities by definition.
You could then use "province" instead of "state". A "province" is an amministrative entity, not related with geography and they can easily change.
At last, you could name what is actually called "province" as "district".

This way, taking back your example, you'll have the region of Rhineland formed by districts x, y, z, a, b. This will never change.
x, y, z are part of Prussia and form the prussian province of Rhineland. a, b are part of Bavaria and form the bavarian Rhineland. In 1871, x, y, z, a, b will be incorporated into the newly formed german province of Rhineland.

Just let me point out that a "state" is a political subdivision that indicates the place where a "nation" lives, where "nation" is the group of people (that usually shares language, culture, institutions, ecc ecc) that lives within a "state".
 
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Homelands: Every Culture has one or more State Regions that most people in that Culture consider to be their natural homeland
I've got a couple questions about that.
1) is this system dynamic? Can a culture, after colonization& assimilation efforts, consider a state region not only its country's core, but a homeland?
2) can more than one culture consider a certain state region their homeland?
 
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"Claims: A State Region can be claimed by a country that does not currently own it but are broadly considered to have a legitimate reason to think that maybe they should. We’ll come back to this when talking about diplomacy and war."

I REALLY hope we can have claim on provinces too and not just whole states. I don't want to conquer whole Switzerland just because I claim Neuchatel as Prussia.
 
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We know what Pops are in which Buildings, we know where the different city hubs are in the state, and we can reasonably compute which province a given number of levels of a building might be in. What this means is that we can determine as-needed which Pop "might" be in which province. This is then used to determine which Pops, building levels, etc go where in case of a split.

This saves us from tracking the mostly-useless information of which Pop is in which province at any given time, which would bloat the game a lot, but still lets us approximate it as needed. Otherwise we'd have to, for example, split a single Peasant Pop of 1 million people into 50 Pops of 20,000 people each if those Peasants are equally spread across the state, even though by our game rules they could all pack up and take another job in the same state tomorrow.
Will the saving in computing allow days to run quickly even on late game during AI wars?
 
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Timewalker102

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Do Unincorporated States also have a Market Access penalty? The Yukon has zero Infrastructure Usage but <100% Market Access.
 

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At the moment this is not possible, though it's something I would like to make possible, perhaps after release.
Please! This would make map modding for me so much easier. Would allow me to creat the Maine border claims which would change the borders of the state region of Maine or something like that.
 
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Alfred Dreyfus

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It's based on the local cultures, and how much they diverge from your national culture(s) in traits.
I like this. I really expect that languages are represented as traits or something.

For example: it should be easier for France to incoporate American States with French speaking population (Quebec, Haiti, etc), for Spain to incorporate American States with Spanish speaking population (Mexico, Peru, Argentina, etc), for Britain to incorporate American States with English speaking population (USA, Falklands, etc)...
 
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So given that certain taxes aren’t collected in the unincorporated/colonial regions, could that end up leading to an effect where (provided there’s sufficient infrastructure) there’s actually a higher standard of living on “the frontier” that encourages people to migrate out/settle since they can keep more of their own income? And as a continuation of that kind of situation, could that make incorporating a state a somewhat careful consideration as that could lead to increased tensions/turmoil in the state region as those formerly “independent” pops now feel the friction of the tax man bringing their SoL down?
 
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We know what Pops are in which Buildings, we know where the different city hubs are in the state, and we can reasonably compute which province a given number of levels of a building might be in. What this means is that we can determine as-needed which Pop "might" be in which province. This is then used to determine which Pops, building levels, etc go where in case of a split.

This saves us from tracking the mostly-useless information of which Pop is in which province at any given time, which would bloat the game a lot, but still lets us approximate it as needed. Otherwise we'd have to, for example, split a single Peasant Pop of 1 million people into 50 Pops of 20,000 people each if those Peasants are equally spread across the state, even though by our game rules they could all pack up and take another job in the same state tomorrow.
This seems like a really elegant solution. Wiz mentioned you guys were working on cultural partitions of states. Do you have some way to weight division of POPs based on geography? For example, that because a province is in the Sudetanland the game is more likely to determine that it’s a German laborer working in a coal mine instead of a Czech one? That sounds cool.
 
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Claims: A State Region can be claimed by a country that does not currently own it but are broadly considered to have a legitimate reason to think that maybe they should. We’ll come back to this when talking about diplomacy and war.
This has to be the most annoying thing about modding HoI4. And it doesn't even make that much sense - why would ownership have dynamism of States while claims/cores not?
 

Alfred Dreyfus

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We know what Pops are in which Buildings, we know where the different city hubs are in the state, and we can reasonably compute which province a given number of levels of a building might be in. What this means is that we can determine as-needed which Pop "might" be in which province. This is then used to determine which Pops, building levels, etc go where in case of a split.

This saves us from tracking the mostly-useless information of which Pop is in which province at any given time, which would bloat the game a lot, but still lets us approximate it as needed. Otherwise we'd have to, for example, split a single Peasant Pop of 1 million people into 50 Pops of 20,000 people each if those Peasants are equally spread across the state, even though by our game rules they could all pack up and take another job in the same state tomorrow.
It kind of sucks, but if it was needed for peformance issues, I can accept it.

Anyway, if you have made a decent spread calculation, why do you kind of block the option to annex individual provinces? Why not a system like Imperator (the default is to annex states, but you can pick individual provinces if you want too)?
 
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You could then use "province" instead of "state". A "province" is an amministrative entity, not related with geography and they can easily change.
At last, you could name what is actually called "province" as "district".
"Province" is a loaded term in Paradox games. Imperator aside it always refer to the smallest territory unit in the game. Even in CK the fanbase often use the term province to refer to counties or baronies for that reason. As such I don't think it is worth using the term for something else (Imperator is an exception because the term 'Province' is also relevant for the Romans). Furthermore, because Vic2 already used "province" to refer to the smallest territories, if you rename 'states' to 'provinces' then you have Vic2 having less provinces than Vic3 which is just bad marketing.

I do agree renaming "state region" to just "region", though. Far less cumbersome.
 
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Xain

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Can you move the state and market capital? And how will it work for separatist states, or states whose "historic" capital is in another state? (As in Italy prior to the conquest of Rome?)

Also, the fact that undiscovered resources are still visible as a state trait is a bit of a downer...
 

IndigoRage

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There are some ways in which States can be partitioned, the main one we have in game right now is Treaty Ports but we're also considering the possibility of partitions along cultural lines.

If a split state in its entirely makes up a country, we name that split state after the country for the sake of brevity. So the split state of Luxemburg is called Luxemburg instead of Luxemburgian Wallonia.
Am I interpreting something wrong or is it the case that once a State Region has been fully unified it's a single unit and there's no real way to take it back again? For instance, Bavaria can't just make Bavarian Rhineland a thing again if it wants to, it has to go after all of Rhineland?

And on the topic of small states like Luxembourg: If Belgium conquers Luxembourg is Luxembourg gone forever?

Belgium controls historical parts of Luxembourg that would likely still be part of the State Region of Wallonia, would it be impossible for Luxembourg to take back its claims without seizing all of Wallonia?
 
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