Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #14 - Political Movements

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lachek

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How does policing play into this?
Radical Pops are a source of Turmoil, which has a number of negative effects on your states. Various Policing Laws provide the Law Enforcement Institution with methods for dealing with the effects of that Turmoil. Some Laws also provide access to Decrees that can have a more direct impact on radical elements of your population. But in both these cases you're dealing with the people who support them, not the Political Movement as an entity. You can't kill an idea.
 
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lachek

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Do nationalists/pan-nationalists also try to push for independence/unification through those movements?
- Will there be movements demanding reconquest of lost territory?
At the moment we only use Political Movements for Pop desires that relate to Laws. Other desires, such as independence, is modeled differently.
 
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lachek

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If we run out of techs to advance the economy (assuming we're otherwise in a socialist utopia) and standard of living, will all pops inevitably slide towards radicalism?
We'll talk more about technology in another Dev Diary, but our general approach to techs is that they should unlock things, not impose automatic, instant change across your whole country as soon as you get access to them. Most technological change comes with some sort of cost, or at least impact. For example, a more efficient Production Method might come with a new input goods cost or a decreased workforce who need new employment. So I'll hedge this response by first saying that our aim is that even if you can plow through the tech tree early, you should still have to struggle to implement all those novelties by game end.

With that caveat in mind though: sure, rapid progress means you have to fight even harder to sustain that progress. Any decline in living conditions is unacceptable, after all.
 
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lachek

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Hm, so ability to enact reform the movement wants is always granted? Does it mean that if the small groups of socialists wants healthcare, I can theoretically try to enact it even if I'm absolute monarchy? Or intelectuals pushing for public schools.
Yes, because even if the people in charge might fundamentally disagree, if the rabble on the street is demanding it perhaps the topic becomes more relevant to them. But there's sure to be a lot of dissent during the process of enacting such a Law, it might take a long time and require a lot of concessions.
Also, what if movements contradict each other? Lets say we have intelectuals pushing for public schools and devouts for religious. How this would impact ability to introduce one of those reforms? (Lets say we have private schools)
Both would impact their respective Law but not the other one. What's more common is that you start to enact one Law that's demanded by a certain Popular Movement, and once you start that process another Movement forms to Preserve the old Law. In this case the movement to enact the new Law would increase its chance of passing while the movement to preserve the old one would try to cause it to stall, so the final impact would depend on the relative Support values of the two groups.
 
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lachek

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What advantage, if any, does the player have to promote radicalism? In Vic2 this allowed to pass progressive reforms in a prominently reactionary society. Are there any other ways to play than promoting loyalist? If the player wantsto change a backward society, with aristochrats having a lot of power, maybe radicalizing some POPs may help the player approve the necessary laws to transform society.
Promoting the appearance of radical Movements is certainly a thing you can do to effect change to your country rapidly. First off, since radicals are more prone to join Movements, having lots of radicals will make for stronger Movements which let you pass the Laws they want faster and easier. It's also possible to foster a revolution on purpose, though this can be a dangerous gambit and obviously lead to huge loss of life and other devastation to your nation.
How reversible is changing laws in your country? Can you change them every election without penalties? I like the idea of a nation state of mind to approve laws, not only a player decision, but something that has to be worked on.
You can attempt to change them as often as you like, but each one is a process - potentially a destabilizing one - and you can only enact one Law at a time. So flip-flopping between Laws is a pretty good way of making just about everyone unhappy in the long run.
 
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lachek

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So I think you've said elsewhere that there aren't age pyramids, so I guess when there is a death in a pop, that has a chance to reduce the loyalists or radical count that's proportionate to the number of loyalists/radicals in the pop? Can a pop have loyalists and radicals at the same time?
A single Pop can only have either Loyalists or Radicals. If the Pop has Loyalists, and become more radical, the effect cancels out the Loyalists instead until there are none left, at which point it would start gaining Radicals instead.

Deaths reduce Loyalists/Radicals/Literate/Qualifications etc by roughly proportionate amounts, yes. So over time, Pops will trend towards neutrality, faster the shorter their life expectancy is (i.e. if both death rate and birth rate are high).
 
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lachek

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So a pop can either vote with their interest group or for their own interest, which makes sense. I feel like something that's missing is pops voting against their own interest due to things other than loyalty alone such factionalism or systems of patronage like political machines.
Oh, none of this has anything to do with votes! Political Movements are about major political will among Interest Groups or grassroots organizations in favor of or opposition to specific Laws. Votes and electoral mechanics is something entirely different, and in those contexts Pops can certainly vote against their best interests. We'll get around to that in later Dev Diaries!
 
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lachek

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Are there any ways for the player to interact with the movements apart from enacting the laws they push for? Any promotion/suppression mechanic?
We currently have some interactions for suppressing or promoting certain Interest Groups depending on what's permitted / enabled by your Laws, and the aforementioned methods for dealing with Radical Pops. But the Political Movements themselves are more to be seen as zeitgeist than an organization with a headquarter your secret police can knock on the door of, so we don't have any direct interactions with Movements.
 
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lachek

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Can all pops get involved in political movements, or are some types excluded- ie, slaves, colonized pops, unaccepted cultures?
All of them can get involved on an individual level, but the ones you mention have no or very limited Political Strength and so cannot act through Interest Groups. But one of the primary reasons for this system is to permit an alternate avenue for disenfranchised Pops to have a say in the country's politics - especially if things get bad enough for them.
 
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lachek

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This looks very nice! You mention the possibility of movements fizzling out over time, instead of becoming more and more radical. Could you tell us a bit more about how that happens?
If a Movement's demands have gone unfulfilled for a long time, without becoming Radical enough to be able to start a Revolution, it will eventually gain a chance to dissolve randomly. So as long as you can keep radicalism down you can wait out the clock until the population's grown tired of asking.
 
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KaiserJohan

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How can we see a breakdown of what interest groups (and pops) are supporting a given Political Movement?
IG breakdown is shown by hovering the underlined percentage.
Pop breakdown isn't added yet as polish pass isn't done :)
 
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lachek

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Will the GUI be fully moddable?
The main limitation to GUI moddability is what datamodels and UI functions the game exposes. So you could reskin every panel, add or remove decorations and animations, reformat all the data in tooltips, even add shortcut buttons to game actions or related interfaces in different places across the UI. But you cannot, for example, add a new view to the State panel that lists all Pops that are members of Political Movements and have >50% Radicals, along with a button that removes said Pop. The former function would need a specific datamodel to be exposed that filters Pops based on specific criteria, and the latter would require us to expose a UI function to remove a Pop. Since that's not a function that's available anywhere else in the UI, it doesn't exist.

You could, however, provide a button that triggers an invisible event you've written that silently kills the Pop in question. I think. But don't do it, that'd be very mean.
 
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lachek

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Yes but in the interviews they did seem to come back to this as the central "gardening" mechanic of the game. I don't love the idea of the game being just about satisfying your pops needs, as opposed to becoming an industrial powerhouse overall or creating a huge sphere or designing the exact political system you want.
Satisfying Pop needs is important for the following reasons, among other things:
- higher Standard of Living means greater Pop growth and more immigration, which is often to your benefit
- increasing a Pop's material conditions leads to more Loyalists which gives you more leeway in the politics you want to push
- it leads to greater consumption of goods which means a larger economy you can exploit via taxes or trade

But it's far from the only thing that's important to focus on, and comes with its own challenges like ensuring access to a much wider variety of goods and dealing with Pops that have more time on their hands to be politically active.
 
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