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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #11 - Employment and Qualifications

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Happy Thursday and welcome to another deep-dive into the guts of Victoria 3’s economic machinery. This week we will be talking about Pop Professions, specifically how and why Pops change Profession. While this is an automatic process, the mechanics of it is still crucial knowledge to keep in the back of your head when building your society. Perhaps you want to ensure the population in one of your states are able to take on Machinist jobs before embarking on a rapid industrialization project there, or perhaps you want to ensure you don’t accidentally enable too much social mobility in a country already prone to uprisings against their true and lawful King.

First, a quick recap. In the Pops dev diary we learned that all Pops have a Profession, which determines their social strata and influences a number of things like wages, political strength, and Interest Group affiliations. In the Buildings dev diary we learned that buildings need Pops of specific Professions to work there in order for them to produce their intended effects on the economy and society. Finally, in the Production Methods dev diary we learned that different Production Methods change the number of Profession positions available in a building. So how do Pops get assigned to these spots?

Our approach here differs a bit from previous games. Victoria 1 and 2 has the concept of a “Pop Type”, a fundamental property of Pops in those games that defines most aspects of their existence - what function they perform in society, what goods they need to survive vs. what goods they desire, what ideologies they espouse, etcetera. Pops in Victoria 2 autonomously change into other types over time depending on their finances and the various needs and aspects of the country. Providing access to luxury goods in your country permits Pops to promote more easily. Generally speaking, higher-tier Pops will provide better bonuses for your country as different Pop Types perform different functions. By manufacturing or importing special goods and educating your population you would turn your simple, backwards Pops into advanced, progressive types in ideal ratios, which maximizes these bonuses to increase your competitive advantage.

Pop Types from Victoria 2: Aristocrats, Artisans, Bureaucrats, Capitalists, Clergymen, Clerks, Craftsmen, Farmers, Laborers, Officers, Slaves, and Soldiers.
poptypes-v2.png

Victoria 3 Pops instead have Professions. These are in some ways similar to “Pop Type”, but the ideal ratios and economic functions of those Professions differ based on the building they’re employed in and the Production Methods activated. The fundamental difference between these two approaches become clear when considering the Bureaucrat Pop Type/Profession in Victoria 2 and 3. In both games, Bureaucrats increase a country’s administrative ability. But in Victoria 2 Pops promote into Bureaucrats independently in relation to the amount of administrative spending the player sets, while in Victoria 3 Pops will only become Bureaucrats if there are available Bureaucrat jobs in Government buildings, usually as a result of the player actively expanding Government Administrations.

Professions in Victoria 3: Academics, Aristocrats, Bureaucrats, Capitalists, Clergymen (temporary icon; will be changed to be more universally applicable), Clerks, Engineers, Farmers, Laborers, Machinists, Officers, Peasants, Servicemen, Shopkeepers, and Slaves.
professions-v3.png

The latter approach gives the player more control over where these job opportunities are created, and combined with Production Methods cause demographic shifts to have stronger, more localized effects that are easier to predict and understand. It’s also more flexible, permitting the same Profession to cause different effects in different Buildings given different Production Methods. So in Victoria 3 higher-paid Pops don’t by their very nature perform a more valuable societal function than lower-paid Pops - rather, each acts as a crucial part of a Production Method’s ‘recipe’. Each of these roles require the others to be effective - without enough Laborers to shovel coal the engines the Machinists maintain stay dormant, and without seamstresses to work the sewing machines the Shopkeepers don’t have any clothes to sell.

Buildings adjust their wages over time in order to achieve full employment with minimal wage costs. As employment increases, so does the Throughput - the degree by which the building consumes input goods and produces output goods. By the laws of supply and demand, this makes a building less profitable per capita the closer to full employment it gets, so at first blush it might appear irrational for a building to pay more wages just to reduce their margins. But since a “building” does not represent a single factory but rather a whole industrial sector across a large area, and we assume the individual businesses in that sector compete with each other rather than engage in cartel behavior to extort consumers, this adjustment of wages to maximize employment makes sense. However, buildings won’t increase wages due to labor competition if this would cause them to go into deficit, so there’s little point to expanding industries beyond the point where they’re profitable.

Employees are hired into available jobs from the pool of Pops that already exist in the state, but unless they’re unemployed these Pops will already have a job somewhere doing something else. Pops can be hired under two conditions: first, they must be offered a measurably higher wage than the wage they’re currently getting from their current employment. Second, unless they already work as the required Profession in another building, they must also meet the Qualifications of that Profession to change into it.

These Steel Mills don’t pay as well as the Arms Industries, but they do seem to offer better terms than the Textile Mills and resource industries in the same state - with the notable exception of Fishing Wharves, who also need Machinists to service their trawlers.
steel-mills-hiring.PNG

Wages are set by individual buildings in response to market conditions. A building that is losing money will decrease wages until it’s back in the black. A building that has open jobs it can’t seem to fill will raise wages until it either fills the necessary positions or runs out of excess profits. As a result, different buildings in the same state will compete for the available workforce. What this means in practice is that a large population with the necessary Qualifications to perform all the jobs being created in the state will keep wages depressed and profits high. Only when industries are large or advanced enough that they need to compete with each other for a limited pool of qualified workers are wages forced to rise. This rise in wages also comes with increased consumption, which increases demand for goods and services that some of the same buildings may profit from in the end.

A Pop’s Qualifications measure how many of its workforce qualify for certain Professions, and updates monthly depending on how well their current properties match up to the expectations of the Profession in question. For example, at least a basic education level is required to become a Machinist while a much higher one is required to become an Engineer. Conversely, the ability to become an Aristocrat is less about education and more about social class and wealth. Buildings won’t hire Pops who don’t meet the Qualifications for the Profession in question.

These 981 Machinists qualify to become Engineers at a rate of 4.08 per month. Their Literacy is nothing to write home about but they at least meet the cut-off of 20%, aren’t starving to death, and benefit substantially from already working in an adjacent field. All factors and numbers are work-in-progress.
machinist-quals.PNG

If some Paper Mills required more Engineers and this Pop was being considered, only the amount of qualified Engineers they’ve accumulated so far could be hired. Currently that is only 85 (not shown). If those 85 were all hired, this Pop would then end up with only 896 members left in the workforce of which 0 now qualify to become Engineers. Since all recently hired Engineers used to be Machinists, all 85 retain their Machinist Qualifications. Furthermore, if 512 members of this Pop qualified to be Farmers before the hire (52%), of the 85 of them who were newly promoted to Engineers, 44 of these new Engineers are also qualified to become Farmers.

To be considered for a “job” as Aristocrat a Pop must have at least moderate Wealth, and the more Wealth they have the faster they will develop this potential. Unlike many other jobs Literacy is not a requirement for being accepted into the aristocracy, but an education does make it easier. Bureaucrats and Officers have an easier time becoming Aristocrats than other members of society, while Pops who suffer discrimination on account of their culture have a much harder time. Finally, if a Pop does not meet the minimum Wealth requirement, they actually devolve any prior potential for becoming Aristocrats. This means that down-and-out former nobles robbed of their land and forced to go unemployed or (perish the thought) become a wage laborer will - over time - lose their ability to return to their former social class. All factors and numbers are work-in-progress.
officers-quals.PNG

Like all Pop attributes, Qualifications follow the Pops as they split, merge, move between buildings, migrate, and die. If you had previously developed a lot of potential Bureaucrats in your country but ran into budgetary problems and had to shut down your schools, over time those Pops who have already developed the Qualifications to become Bureaucrats will die off and not be replaced by newly educated ones. If your Capitalists in a given state had been underpaying their local discriminated employees to the degree that nobody gained the Qualifications to take over for them, and then some of those Capitalists move away to operate a newly opened Iron Mine in the next state over, rather than promoting some of the local discriminated Laborers to the newly opened jobs they will simply leave the spots open (and the mines underproducing) until some qualified Capitalists move in from elsewhere to take over.

Qualifications are entirely moddable by simply providing the computational factors that should go into determining how the value develops each month. If you want to make a mod to split up the Clergymen Profession into individual variants for each Religion in the game, you could make the Imam Profession dependent on the Pop being Sunni or Shi’ite. If you wanted Aristocrat Qualification development to be highly dependent on the amount of unproductive Arable Land in the state the Pop lives in, you could do that. An event option or Decision that makes it faster and easier to educate Engineers but harder to educate Officers for the next 10 years? Absolutely.

A breakdown of all Pops in Lower Egypt that qualify to become Engineers. Of course, any openings will be offered to existing Engineers first, and not all of the remaining qualified Pops would actually be interested in the job - though if it was lucrative enough, perhaps some Aristocrats on a failing Subsistence Farm would consider a career change.
potential-engineers.PNG

The intent of Qualifications is to signal to a player what capacity for employment they have available among any subset of their population. They cannot, for example, conquer a state filled with under-educated people they also legally discriminate against and expect to immediately build up a cutting-edge manufacturing- and trade center there. These efforts will be throttled by their inability to employ the locals into highly qualified positions, meaning they have to wait for members of their already qualified workforce to migrate there from the old country to take on any high-status positions created for them. But by building out their education system, paying Bureaucracy to extend their administrative reach to the new state through incorporation, and changing their Laws to extend citizenship to these new residents, they can start to build this capacity also in the locals.

In summary, Qualifications is the mechanism by which access to education and your stance on discrimination - in addition to many other factors - impact your ability to expand different parts of your society. It is also the mechanism that sorts Pops logically into the economic (and thereby political) niches you carve out as you expand, ensuring your laws and economic conditions inform the social mobility of Pops based on who they are. It’s quite subtle, and you might not even notice it’s there - until you run into the challenges caused by rapid industrialization, mass migration, conquests, colonization, and other drastic population shifts.

That is all for this week! Next Thursday we will finally get into how all this economic activity translates into revenue streams for you, when Martin presents the mechanics governing the Treasury and national debt.
 
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That seems unfortunate, a population with poor education (even if it is 20%) but lots of basic factory workers should only produce a tiny fraction of the engineers that one with high education can, same for shopkeepers to capitalists. The skills are not that transferable and they represent very different kinds of work and economic systems.
I think the minimum thresholds will be very important in this. As engineers transfer out of the machinists, the machinist literacy will drop, eventually below threshold if there isn't adequate education to keep boosting it. Even if the pop is 22% literacy there are some in the pop who picked up the necessary skills.

That said, maybe a multiplicative effect would make more sense. Like you scale the potential engineers by the amount the literacy is above threshold. So 25% would be a 5% multiplier, 50% literacy would be a 30% multiplier. That would drop off naturally to the threshold, rather than falling off a cliff.
 
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I only hope education is not done exclusively by the clergy anymore so the Atheist societies do not have to rely on the oppressed priests to educate their kids.
They've said that public education can be secular or church based, so I assume that atheists would use a secular public school and employ academics.
 
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I'm really liking the look of this system. Using it as a way to portray marginalized groups being prevented from moving up in society is very interesting. That you might still get the occasional, say, Sudanese aristocrat from the preexisting officer class despite them being a discriminated cultural group is a good way to accurately show that society has never been completely rigid on such matters and you did find at least a few examples throughout history.
 
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I assume that buildings that reduce wages in order to return into the black won't run into the issue of:
  • Reduced wages makes pops seek employment elsewhere.
  • Reduced workers reduces production
  • Reduced production reduces income
  • Reduced income places the building in the red
  • The building reduces wages in order to maintain profits
The reduced income shouldn't put the building in the red. As the production drops, the costs drop too, and the price of the good should rise (assuming demand holds up). So at some production level they should return to profitability.

One situation where scaling back production won't return them to profitability is if they are being heavily out-competed by industries in another state or country. Then the price won't rise enough and there is no level of production where they can retain their workforce and stay in the black.
 
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Concerning wages, will trade unions and strike actions be represented in some way?
Trade Unions were mentioned as one of the interest groups, and unhappy interest groups can have various effects including, I would assume, lower throughput from certain jobs.

I only hope education is not done exclusively by the clergy anymore so the Atheist societies do not have to rely on the oppressed priests to educate their kids.
The education system of your nation is one of your Institutions, so that's up to you (and to a lesser extent, your interest groups and available workforce).
 
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Very nice dev diary. So many numbers. I really like the whole paragraph about people keeping their traits, thought such a thing would need to many computations at first to be implemented.
Also that you not only model migration based on economy but also migration to colonies and new states based on job opportunities is very nice. The sentence about not having the right capitalists in your state creating a bad situation could be really really usefull to model revolutions and reactionary revolts.
Imagine the communists achieve their goal not by harmonious reforms but by blood. Then they make all the intelligentsia and capitalists "dissapear". This will create enough problems in the short run until new reforms are passed. Then after a few years the reactionaries take back the power by force. If they move quickly then some might be able to get their position back but if its too long then there will be quite some delay where the country suffers from a lost generation of job x. If it takes too long the system change might be irreversible without foreign intervention as the interest groups have disbanded and most that formerly had flourished under the old system were killed, died or migrated into other countries.
 
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Under this system, will having massive wages for the military lead to more soldier POPs? In Vicky 2, it was quite counterintuitive that paying your soldiers too much would completely drain your manpower because they would promote and you'd end up with 20 officers to a soldier.
 
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Obviously you are the ones who have a feel for how this is balanced but I am shocked that the numbers seen there are so weighted to consider current employment over everything else. I mean for aristocrats wealth is contributing 0.1 per point, literacy is 0.01 per point and being officers is giving 9.71. So pops with wealth of 80 (insanely high) and literacy of 100% would between those things have as much contribution as just the factor from being an officer. And it is even moreconcerning for other job types which need actual skills.
Seems like it will make getting a population with the qualifications you need mainly just dependant on having the more basic pops of that same type (machinists to engineers, officers to aristocrats, shopkeepers to capitalists etc).
That seems unfortunate, a population with poor education (even if it is 20%) but lots of basic factory workers should only produce a tiny fraction of the engineers that one with high education can, same for shopkeepers to capitalists. The skills are not that transferable and they represent very different kinds of work and economic systems.
I think wealth isn't doing too much because they don't have much. If they were rich it could be +20
 
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I wonder, can qualifications be tied to technology?
Like, more machinists can qualify to be engineers in London where the technology is more advanced and the concept of a steam Engine is widely known and accepted than Kairo. Not only being dependent on the literacy and integration, literate people study different things which are effected by the society they live in.
 
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nikkythegreat

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What does aristocrats and capitalists do? Do they actually form part of the workforce of a building or are they like they were in Victoria 2 where capitalists decrease input rate of the state?


Also let's say a building needs 200 engineers and 800 mechinists but is it only employed 100 engineers but full employment for mechinists. Does it have 50% throughput, since it only have half the engineers, or does it have 90% throughput, since it has 90% of the workforce?
 
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EntropyAvatar

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Under this system, will having massive wages for the military lead to more soldier POPs? In Vicky 2, it was quite counterintuitive that paying your soldiers too much would completely drain your manpower because they would promote and you'd end up with 20 officers to a soldier.
The way I think it works, you build barracks to create open soldier and officer jobs. Then pops promote into those jobs. Thus the buildings you construct and their production methods (and laws?) will determine how many soldiers and officers you end up with. Soldiers can't promote to officers unless there are open officer jobs available.

You might run into an officer shortage if say your population doesn't have enough education and your military structure has a high ratio of officers. Maybe then you'd need to scale back your "production method" or army organisation to require fewer officers.
 
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Vathek

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Few questions:
1. What will an unemployed pops ‘profession’ be? Just whatever they were last employed as?
2. Why no artisan profession to simulate cottage industry as in Vicky 2? Is this modelled in another way?
3. Do buildings in the red only reduce wages or do they also lay off workers? The latter would seem to be a better simulation of individual firms represented by ‘the building’ going bust and firms downsizing to reduce costs, which happens more often in the real world than wage cuts.
 
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EntropyAvatar

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What does aristocrats and capitalists do? Do they actually form part of the workforce of a building or are they like they were in Victoria 2 where capitalists decrease input rate of the state?
The way it was described in earlier comments, building type, production methods and ownership structure lead to a fixed ratio of jobs for each production step. So to expand production each step, you need say 1 capitalist, 4 engineers, 16 machinists. So the capitalist draws a wage from the building in addition to getting the dividends.

Presumably this interacts with employment targets. Like if you can't "hire" the capitalist, then there are no job openings for the engineers and machinists, even if there are pops who would take the job at the current salary.
 
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Fulbert

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Will there be unique desires and aspirations of nations ? For the Russian Empire, it is to liberate Constantinople and Bulgaria from the Ottomans .
And abolish the serfdom, mind. That was one of the principal driving forces that informed the internal political life of the country throughout the 19th century.