• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #0

dd0.png


Hello everyone!

Yes, you’re seeing this right. No, this isn’t a belated April Fools joke. After all these years, and all these memes, Victoria 3 really is confirmed at last. I’m Martin “Wiz” Anward, the Game Director of Victoria 3, and it’s my absolute pleasure to finally be able to reveal what I have been working on since 2018 (around the time I stepped down as Game Director of Stellaris).

So what, then, is Victoria 3? I can start by telling you that it’s most definitely a proper Victoria game - namely a game with a core focus on Economy, Politics and Internal Country Management and with the iconic Victoria Pop system not just included as a core mechanic but made even deeper than in either of its predecessors.

Though Victoria 3 is its own game and not an iteration on Victoria 2, our ambition is to create a worthy successor that stays true to the core values of the Victoria series while using what have learned over the last decade in terms of making games more accessible - so that we can use that accessibility to build an even deeper game for old and new players alike!

Our vision for Victoria 3 is to create what we call a ‘Society Sim’ - a game that is first and foremost about the internal workings of the 19th-century country that you are playing and how its society is shaped over the course of the game. Politics, Economy and Diplomacy are the three most important parts of the game - Wars are of course a part of the game (just as they were a part of the Victorian age), but Victoria 3 is *not* a wargame or a game about map painting.

Loading screen from Victoria 3 - “The Crystal Palace”
dd0_1.png


Oh, and before you start speculating crazily about what is and is not in the game: No, there is no mana!

Now, there is going to be a lot of dev diaries going forward to dig into the mechanics of the game, but to wrap up this dev diary I want to briefly touch on the four game design pillars that we have been following when designing and building Victoria 3:
  • National Gardening: Building, shaping, tweaking and evolving your nation is the first and foremost focus of the game. Events outside your country’s borders can naturally affect your country in significant ways, but the game should never rely on war to provide the main source of enjoyment.
  • Diplomatic Eminence: War is a continuation of diplomacy, and everything that is achievable by war should also be achievable through diplomacy (even if that diplomacy sometimes comes at the point of a gun).
  • Everything is Political: Politics is at the heart of Victoria 3, and all major features should in some way tie back into the Pops and Interest Groups that form the core of the game’s politics.
  • Era of Change: The Victorian era was a time of immense change politically, technologically, culturally, militarily and socially, and these changes should be reflected in the experience of playing a campaign of Victoria 3.

That’s all for this week, but we’ll see you next week, when we’ll be talking about the return of the Victoria Pop System and the introduction of Dependents.

We'll also have a lot more exciting news to share as we go, so make sure to follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Discord, the Paradox Forums and the official Victoria 3 website to stay up to date.
 
  • 347Like
  • 317Love
  • 29
  • 12
  • 2Haha
  • 2
Reactions:

Brooksman

Private
45 Badges
Jul 7, 2013
20
30
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Agreed, it should be possible and maybe even have certain advantages (for the sake of interesting game play and not just having there be an obvious meta), but I hope they don't do what they do in Vic 2 where Socialism is just the best strategy.

Edit: to be clear, I'm not asking for some anarcho-capitalist paradise to be the best. It'd just be good if each system had its own advantages and disadvantages to balance out. E.g. the different governening systems in Eu 4 where there isn't a "best" one, each one does different things.
Socialism was only the best because the AI was terrible at prioritizing upgrades and factories in a market economy.
 

Finardin

Sergeant
Feb 14, 2020
62
242
I have always believed that the Victoria III project was put on hold due recent "political correctness" ideology going around the world. After all the XIX century, with modern eyes, was one of the most impolite century of all. Colonialism, slavery, exploitation ... how to make a political correct game about these topics .... better focus on other things ...

The "not" a war game, the not a direct follow up of Vic II (like all the HOI and EU games are and have been), just sadly confirm it.

I hope it will be still a good game, but it will not be the Vic III that I was hoping and waiting for, nor the game that many of us, intelligent enought to read history through education and not slogan, capable to understand the different between game and reality, present and past, would have hoped for.
Stop it. You're the snowflake you guys complain about.
 
  • 12
  • 7Like
  • 2
Reactions:

Brooksman

Private
45 Badges
Jul 7, 2013
20
30
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I highly recommend reading the reddit thread posted earlier. Lots of very good detail. Makes me excited tbh. Haven't had a good paradox release in a while but this is looking good.

I would cntrl-v everything here but it is way too long for that.
reddit.com/r/victoria3/comments/nhzt1w/victoria_3_everything_we_know_so_far/
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Me_

Myself
82 Badges
Jan 14, 2011
9.555
12.058
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
The lack of actual parties is bizzare and kind of absurd. Real life political parties are a mixture of interests in various areas, which inherently breeds need for compromises and trade-offs.

It reminds me of the simplistic faction system of Stellaris, which is fine in a game where politics is a secondary feature, but seems out of place in a game where it's meant to be the main focus.
 
  • 4
Reactions:

Krey_Lollipop

First Lieutenant
83 Badges
Aug 10, 2016
230
455
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Sengoku
  • March of the Eagles
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Magicka
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
Please add political parties in some capacity. It's a little silly that governments can consist of "rural folk and intelligentsia". You could potentially add a party overlay where one, two or more groups join together to form a political party, in which case they'd prefer to be in power together and without interest groups that aren't in the party. Perhaps they could also work with other similarly aligned parties.
Now that you mention it, that sounds like something straight out of an Ancien Régime, albeit a tad less representative and without the medieval theme. Also, rural folk having a "party" togheter? I actually feel a tad disturbed over that depiction. But I have an important meeting right now so I can't clarify further on why.

Eitherway I hope they add actual parties at some point. It might even be possible to just rename these groups, though I think there's room for both. After all, select issues like independence, pan-nationalism, abolition and suffrage could probably attract great numbers of otherwise quite diverse political figures.

(EDIT) I find it disturbing because I'm somewhat rural myself, and to be bundled up with everyone else doesn't feel quite right. To me it implies that we aren't as capable of holding individual opinions as others might be. Normally I wouldn't care too much about such implications, but this abstraction is how governments work* and thus a bit of a centerpiece to the game. Do tell me if there's a good reason for this though.

This also extends somewhat to the other IGs shown. I've heard they will change as time goes on and new blood joins, but I'm sceptical as to how well that will cover splits and such which did occur in some of these Gs. Like with Christian revivalism, will that just be some new traits or will it actually cause divides?

* Unless changed prior to release, which it just might be given that we don't even know when that is.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Negru Voda

Euro-centric Diplomat
102 Badges
Nov 27, 2006
720
139
  • Magicka 2
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities in Motion
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
Not really, investing in infrastructures would not help much. If we assume they had the tech knowledge and cohesions necessary, which they did not.

I would go with a more historical approach, few archaic kingdoms and the rest of the continent a huge no man's land.
Colonial administrations in the case of the UK were indirect, meaning that they worked with and tried to involve pre-existing kingdoms and societies in managing the territory. Maybe adding mechanics which forces you to work with your overlord like what happened in Botswana, slowly working your way towards creating a nation and state, and competing with other ethnic groups under the same administrations?
France too adopted this sort of system, but later, just a few decades later decolonization happened making way to the more subtle neo-imperialism, but we are talking about the 60s.

Portugal on the other hand tried to put her colonies under direct administration and tried to assimilate the inhabitants, failing. Independence achieved only in the 70's after Salazar kicked the bucket and long guerrilla wars.

Ethiopia was the most centralized sub-saharian country, thanks to her christian roots managed to find important european sponsors like Russia and mantain independence until 1936.

So as you can see there could be a range of possibilities for african countries, to manage independence like ethiopia, to get GG'd and absorbed like Mozambique, to broker a deal with an eruopean power like for Botswana and Buganda's cases.
I understand what you mean, but I was just saying that at a level of abstraction you can account for your initial points.

I recomend you look at the the reddit post detailing the decentralized countries - if you haven't already

I think what we'll have is these decentralized countries from which you will be able to take land easily* and attach them economically into your empire. I can see everything else that you described to be possible as interactions between overlord and decentralized country - maybe you begin to influence them so they become more developed and increase their output of resources which you want, or maybe you try to suppress resistance movements against you.

*since these areas are going to be semi-countries, other great powers can propt them up against you and proxy conflicts might not be so easily resolved at all times - especially with he new Diplomatic Plays system outlines.
 

Finardin

Sergeant
Feb 14, 2020
62
242
"If you have a system like worker-owned factories, you can get to a point where even the lower strata POPs in your country are richer by the late game than the capitalists were at the beginning."

This makes it sound like the game endorses communism. I really hope that isn't the case.
It's Vicky, communism is always gonna be the best ideology. But being more serious... it's probably not about what is better but which socity has the most resources, tech and administrative capabilities. That being said, socialism is based and capitalism is cringe. Argument won, anarcho-libs owned.
 
  • 4Like
  • 2
  • 1Haha
Reactions:

Garuda

Village Idiot
51 Badges
Dec 14, 2002
2.082
188
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
Well it's about time. :cool:
 

Morrowind3

Colonel
107 Badges
Jun 2, 2011
924
5.059
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Lead and Gold
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Divine Wind
  • Knights of Honor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
It's Vicky, communism is always gonna be the best ideology.
Wasn't Fascism considered universally the best ideology to with in vicky 2? You are free to move your reforms in any direction you want at any time, and they often had jingoism/pro-military and interventionalism as their policies, their main drawback being that they don't appear until 20-30 years before the game start.
Agreed, it should be possible and maybe even have certain advantages (for the sake of interesting game play and not just having there be an obvious meta), but I hope they don't do what they do in Vic 2 where Socialism is just the best strategy.

Edit: to be clear, I'm not asking for some anarcho-capitalist paradise to be the best. It'd just be good if each system had its own advantages and disadvantages to balance out. E.g. the different governening systems in Eu 4 where there isn't a "best" one, each one does different things.
I think that's the case. Workers having more money in a syndicalist means of production is a reasonable, neutral implementation of that ideology, but like vicky 2 there's probably a lot of snowball effects that aren't immediatly visible in the tooltip. For example, I can imagine that worker co-operatives who can finally afford silverware will contribute a lot less to the investpool than a collection of filthy rich folks with money to burn would contribute, so a reasonable and neutral consequence might be that a syndicalist country is going to have a hard time keeping up with more exploitative countries and thus in the long-term have living standards drop due to a weakening economic position (Not quite sure how that investment pool thing they talked about is gonna work tho)
 
  • 6
Reactions:

dav77-b

Dampfnudel
89 Badges
Jan 10, 2010
2.193
2.256
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Knights of Honor
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Age of Wonders
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 2
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
It's Vicky, communism is always gonna be the best ideology. But being more serious... it's probably not about what is better but which socity has the most resources, tech and administrative capabilities. That being said, socialism is based and capitalism is cringe. Argument won, anarcho-libs owned.

From a scientific perspective; capitalism wins if it is about the well-being of its citizen.
Socialism is good if you disregard the well-being of your citizen and just want to exploit the masses to have resources for war.

Look at this ranking and think about where you think people have the best quality of life:

Singapur or North Korea? I wonder.


One of the biggest challenges of the era was when the population grew more than the economy did. Balancing economic growth and population growth is a critical aspect of the well-being of society. This is why Africa fails so hard, and china had temporarily implemented a one-child policy to skip the struggle and ascend to modernity and wealth.
 
  • 19
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Zaki

Heavy mortar team member
49 Badges
Aug 9, 2005
471
19
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
More than eight years have passed since Heart of Darkness, and I'm still playing Vic2. Honestly, I didn't expect this, not anymore. Very nice surprise.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Lucas1899

Corporal
54 Badges
Feb 5, 2018
31
34
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
From a scientific perspective; capitalism wins if it is about the well-being of its citizen.
Socialism is good if you disregard the well-being of your citizen and just want to exploit the masses to have resources for war.

Look at this ranking and think about where you think people have the best quality of life:

Singapur or North Korea? I wonder.


One of the biggest challenges of the era was when the population grew more than the economy did. Balancing economic growth and population growth is a critical aspect of the well-being of society. This is why Africa fails so hard, and china had temporarily implemented a one-child policy to skip the struggle and ascend to modernity and wealth.
Agreed (edit: on the socialism vs capitalism point) but my view is that from a game play perspective it's more fun to have more ideologies be "viable". (See German's economy in HOI not going down the drain due to the awful economic policies of the leader at that time, as is written about in The Vampire Economy).

Also, everyone else will claim their ideology is best, so this makes it less contentious.
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
  • 2
Reactions:

Colonizor48

Lt. General
23 Badges
Feb 5, 2021
1.401
1.336
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Darkest Hour
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
PDX PLS MARCH OF THE EAGLES 2 AND STELALRIS 3!!!

STELLARIS 3 CONFIRMED!
 
  • 1Like
  • 1Love
  • 1
Reactions:

Voodoo Lilium

First Lieutenant
70 Badges
Nov 30, 2017
274
870
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
The IGN guy who had a good look at the game put out a massive thread of information on reddit with details on a bunch of mechanics he was shown. From what he said, it’s pretty clear that recognition is not the equivalent of westernization. It tends to align with non-westernized nations but has an entirely different effect and purpose
You mean she. Leana is a woman
 
Last edited:
  • 5Like
  • 2
Reactions: