Stellaris Dev Diary #97 - Tech Progression in Cherryh

[SolSys]

I understand that with some of the changes to ship roles, Paradox have phased out some of the ship sections, notably the small slot sections for battleship sterns. I am however very dissapointed that, unlike every other shipset in the game, the new Humanoid shipset doesn't include the -models- for these now unsupported module groups. While Vanilla Stellaris may not use them anymore, Mods most certainly DO use them, so leaving out those sections causes numerous headaches for modders.

Having already created the rest of the shipset, I cant imagine it would have been that much extra work to add in the extra sections to A) Match the rest of the shipsets, and B) Allow mods that rely on those extra sections (that they're already used to making use of) to use them.

I'm sorry, but this is disrespectful at best.
If you never worked with a budget than don't make unnecessary comments about it.

You can ask and they may oblige, but there is a way to do it.
At the very least @Crusader Vanguard phrased themselves better. It might seem like a slight variation of what you wrote, but it changes the whole tone of the post while preserving the point.

Spoiler

@Wiz - I have pointed this out in the checksum thread, but I would like to at least get someone's attention to this issue so at least I can say I said something.

The Humanoid Shipset that you guys released today does NOT support all the asset entries in the game. What I mean is, for example, the Battleship actually has 4 stern "model layouts" in the game: L1, M2, M1S2, & S4. I realize that in current vanilla game, you only use the first two (L1 & M2 models), however, there are many mods (Including New Ship Classes & More, which is the most popular gameplay mod for Stellaris) use ALL 4 layouts, which include M1S2 & S4. Unfortunately, this means that mods like New Ship Classes & More do NOT have the models they need to update to support your latest creation.

I realize the value in not "wasting" resources you don't need to spend, however, there are many mods (not just New Ship Classes) that utilize all the layouts and models you have placed into the game, even if you don't. We would really appriciate it if the artist team that made this shipset would make models for the remaining asset layouts, so mods can utilize them even if you guys don't.

The Humanoid Shipset looks amazing and is definitely one we'll use, but it does cause issues for us modders since not all the assets are supported. The mod support here would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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EDIT: Sorry for the long delay - my schedule is currently rather hectic and I wasn't able to add the clarification earlier.
I can see from the description that you enjoy playing the game and as such my criticism is not directed at you as a person/user, but solely at the phrasing of certain paragraphs in the post. While the differences may seem minute, when dealing only in written media it has its implications.

 

[AlphaAsh]

...somehow we're the bad guys. It's enough to make us (and several other major modders) question whether modding is worth it.

I've already been personally told by the author of a majorly popular mod that this kind of stuff is why he hasn't moved forward with improving his mod any further. So yeah, this kind of stuff DOES affect the mods out there and their quality, even if it doesn't show publicly.

Not sure if you mean me, but regardless, yes, I'm not going to be supporting 2.0. I'm freezing versions of all mods at 1.9 and will update against that.

As for the deprecated ship modules, yup this impacts one of the mods I authored, The Fleet. What am I doing about it? Adding this to the mod description:

This mod isn't compatible with the Humanoids Species Pack.

Whether that makes a difference to PDX or not, not my concern.

 

[Weedes]

Matter Generator? ... Ala Star Trek Food Synthesizer?

 

[Rasma]

For this reason, we have changed the Tech and Unity penalties to no longer be based on pops, but rather purely on the number of owned planets and systems, with each owned system and colonized planet adding to your tech and unity costs, and planets overall having less on an impact on tech costs than before.

So by owned planets do you mean colonized, or would claiming a six planet system actually give bigger penalties then a three planet system?
Are there any plans to do something with systems that have absolutely no resource generation within them? It seems like this will make people more stingy about what systems they claim, furthermore will claims need to be contiguous?
Overall I like this change in how you value systems.

 

[Shermanator]

Kind of disappointed the humanoids pack doesn't have unique humanoid megastructures.
It feels like the pack was rushed, based on the information I have heard.

 

[Spaceman78]

Kind of disappointed the humanoids pack doesn't have unique humanoid megastructures.
It feels like the pack was rushed, based on the information I have heard.

What unique humanoid megastructures? If you mean Habitats, aren't they unique according to the videos?

I love the music, love the VIR, love the shipsets, but I can't help think that the portraits were rushed.

There is no/barely any difference between the male and female portraits.

Male en female Voor/Orc/Gorilla,Snake Person... are barely any different.

 

[NFactor]

Kind of disappointed the humanoids pack doesn't have unique humanoid megastructures.
It feels like the pack was rushed, based on the information I have heard.

I like the "female" portraits that are pretty much identical to the males.
As for megastructures, I honestly can't tell the difference between them anyway unless two megas are next to each other. Which can't happen normally. Not adding another retextured set of megas is a bit tacky though. Then again maybe it isn't. If we can't tell, why bother to do it?

But before PDX thinks I'm stomping on them too much, I do like the new city style, voices, and the ship style. It's not anywhere near as good as the fallen or event ships, but the humanoid style is now the absolute best vanilla player style in my view. Particularly love the stations. Excellent work there.

Tech updates sound good too. One of my minor gripes (that is fixed by mods so it's not a big issue) is that there aren't enough techs. This will certainly help in that department.

What unique humanoid megastructures? If you mean Habitats, aren't they unique according to the videos?

Yeah technically the other megas (Dysons, rings, etc.) are all retextures anyway. And not exactly stunning retextures at that. (Sorry PDX, but come on! )

 

[Lavo]

It is very sad to see the amount of anti-modding sentiment that is bleeding through the moderation of this thread, and this game's sub-forums in general. Much has changed since the days of Darkest Hour and Arsenal of Democracy, and not for the better.

 

[CaptainX3]

It is very sad to see the amount of anti-modding sentiment that is bleeding through the moderation of this thread, and this game's sub-forums in general. Much has changed since the days of Darkest Hour and Arsenal of Democracy, and not for the better.

The modding community has been quiet lately on our Discord, but it sure is fired up today, and it’s not going in a pleasant direction.

 

[LeanneKaos]

So by owned planets do you mean colonized, or would claiming a six planet system actually give bigger penalties then a three planet system?

It's in the bit you quoted actually:
"with each owned system and colonized planet adding to your tech and unity costs"

 

[Flanelman]

I was also excited for the Humanoids pack, more shipsets are always amazeballs, but this implementation is just mediocre to terrible. Paradox produced content that you are selling shouldn't be worse than quickly produced stuff from Steam Workshop. I hate the idea of paid mods, but ffs, it seems like a better solution than this garbage.

 

[fabius]

It is very sad to see the amount of anti-modding sentiment that is bleeding through the moderation of this thread, and this game's sub-forums in general. Much has changed since the days of Darkest Hour and Arsenal of Democracy, and not for the better.

Yes and no. I thought a few posts jumping on outstanding modders distasteful.
But, my impression based on comments in mod threads here, steam and about, is that the vast majority of players appreciate mods and their creators giving free time.

 

[Dedzone]

I have to say, I am loving all these changes. Going to be a brand new game by the time they are done, and one that looks like it will work well.

 

[Orinsul]

If all the weapon types are available, what does auto-generated ships use?

 

[SolarGuy]

If all the weapon types are available, what does auto-generated ships use?

Important question! Especially since missiles are on torpedo slots in 2.0, and those aren't available on the S3 corvette section (which is currently the standard at game start).

 

[Anprionsa]

This is looking like a good update.

 

[Weedes]

Despite NSC being the most popular gameplay mod on the Workshop, neither myself nor any of the NSC devs have ever jumped on here to complain or ask Paradox about anything, and yet the one time we ASK for something, somehow we're the bad guys.

You are literally saying you have never complained in a complaint. You are literally asking for something in a statement where you claim to never have asked for anything.

Despite NSC being the most popular gameplay mod on the Workshop,

That doesn't entitle you to anything.

It's enough to make us (and several other major modders) question whether modding is worth it.

In that last 30 minutes alone I just made a mod that causes pops to get uppity/potentially revolt when you modify them...

This game is dope moddable and that will never change despite a few minor mothballed features.

Sounds like there's no reason for us modders to bother supporting new content, then. Less work for me.

That is a broad generalization based on a tiny issue. Where was your outrage when triggered modifiers disappeared?

Where was your elation when they added on_action events and the pulse system? Timed flags? Though those are a bit older and more engine related than Stellaris related, the point is, the scope expands and the scope gets smaller. Most major patch notes have examples where modding scope was expanded allowing modders to touch different parts of the system.

If you want to see a major shift in mod support in a game franchise you should look at the Total War games, after Medieval 2 moddability dropped by about 80% on the whole, (largely due to a new ownership setting new directives). And only recently have they tried opening it up somewhat for later titles but it is still no where near what it use to be.

That said they still have no campaign map creation (just tiny edits or minor swaps), no faction adding (just swaps), etc, etc. And everything requires a tool, most of them unofficial to do even basic edits and many entries remain flagged as 'unknown' due to their unofficial nature and the few official tools are typically late/delayed/buggy/limited.

Not sure if you mean me, but regardless, yes, I'm not going to be supporting 2.0. I'm freezing versions of all mods at 1.9 and will update against that.

Spoiler

 

[AlphaAsh]

In that last 30 minutes alone I just made a mod that causes pops to get uppity/potentially revolt when you modify them...

Oh nice meme-bait. Sure I'll bite.

I'm thoroughly enjoying your work and planning to continue buying Stellaris content because of it.

Oh wait, no I'm not.

 

[CaptainX3]

That doesn't entitle you to anything.

Nothing except a subscriber base of 152,000 people who firmly believe that our small dev team is the only reason why they still play Stellaris. Just that. Nothing more.

In that last 30 minutes alone I just made a mod that causes pops to get uppity/potentially revolt when you modify them...

Congrats, I could’ve done it in 10 minutes.

That is a broad generalization based on a tiny issue. Where was your outrage when triggered modifiers disappeared?

Where was your elation when they added on_action events and the pulse system? Timed flags? Though those are a bit older and more engine related than Stellaris related, the point is, the scope expands and the scope gets smaller. Most major patch notes have examples where modding scope was expanded allowing modders to touch different parts of the system.

Both outrage and elation at the above items were lost either in threads deleted because we complained instead of sucking up, or in threads that were buried in a forum area that no one pays attention to.

Regardless, we’ve decided to continue our work because we do have a large number of people who depend on our mods to make the game actually playable (like the hundreds of broken vanilla events we’ve gone through and fixed line by line) and those users shouldn’t suffer just because we tried asking something in a forum that brings back not-so-fond memories of EA and Derek Smart.

Have a nice day.

 

[LemurFromTheId]

subscriber base of 152,000 people who firmly believe that our small dev team is the only reason why they still play Stellaris

I'm not taking sides here, but... let's not get carried away with the fallacies. What you have there is 152,000 people who were interested enough at the time to click a button, that's all.