• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #94 - Ascension Perks & Surveying in Cherryh

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris dev diary. Today's topic was supposed to be ship balance and doomstacks, but because certain things weren't ready to show off yet, we're instead going to be doing a smaller dev diary talking about some changes coming to Ascension Perks and Surveying. We'll get back to the doomstack topic in a couple weeks.

Ascension Perks
Ascension Perks were added in Utopia as the paid component to the Tradition system to create a set of interesting choices for the player to take as they went through the Tradition tree, choosing between simple but powerful bonuses and more elaborate 'unlocks' such as the ascension paths and Megastructures. However, since then we have noticed that this is a system we keep wanting to build on (for example by adding unique Ascension Perks for Machine Empires as we did in Synthetic Dawn), and found the requirement to depend all of this on Utopia too limiting. For this reason, in the Cherryh update, we are going to make the basic Ascension Perks such as Mastery of Nature, Defender of the Galaxy and so on free for everyone. Biological/Psionic/Synthetic Ascension Paths and Megastructure Ascension Perks (including Habitats) will still require Utopia and Machine Empire Ascension Perks will naturally still require Synthetic Dawn (but not Utopia). The core system itself however, will become part of the base game, so everyone will be able to get at least the basic set of Ascension Perks even if they don't own a single piece of DLC.

Surveying & Communications Trading
The way surveying, anomaly generation and star chart trading works has never really worked very well. For one, it's very unclear to players that for example, you cannot discover anomalies in other empires' space, or that star chart trading can actually be a bad idea since it can in some cases stop you from finding anomalies in those systems. For this reason, we've decided to make some changes to the way surveying works. In Cherryh, any system inside the borders of an empire you have communications with will automatically be considered surveyed, without any need to send a science ship into it and waste a bunch of time scanning planets that have no chance of yielding anomalies aynway. There are some exceptions to this, such as Fallen Empires, whose space will need to be surveyed manually and can in fact yield anomalies.

As part of this we have decided to remove Star Chart trading as well as the ability to buy Star Charts from Curators, and instead replace this with the option to trade Communications with another empire - acquiring Communications from an empire in a trade deal will automatically put you in comms with any empires they have comms with that you do not. This should mean that there are no longer any 'traps' in surveying, while also requiring the need to explore every little nook of the galaxy even when that nook is held by your ally since a hundred years back.
2017_11_16_1.png


Terra Incognita Changes
Finally, I just wanted to mentioned that we have done some changes to Terra Incognita to make it more clear and make it work properly with bypasses (Wormholes and Gateways). Instead of Terra Incognita being based on which physical pixels on the map your ships have 'seen', it is now based on which systems are considered visited. Visited either means that you have been to the system with a ship, or that the system is inside the borders of an empire that you have communications with. As such, Terra Incognita no longer needs to be manually lifted on empires you have met in order to not make them appear grey and washed out on the map, also making it easier to see important galactic features such as nebulas.
2017_11_16_2.png


That's all for today! I know it was a short one, but don't worry, we still have a long way to go and plenty of major things to talk about for Cherryh. However, next week we're actually going to be talking about something that's§ unrelated to Cherryh, but exciting nonetheless. I'm not allowed to spoil what just yet, but stay tuned!
 
However, next week we're actually going to be talking about something that's§ unrelated to Cherryh, but exciting nonetheless. I'm not allowed to spoil what just yet, but stay tuned!
Victoria's Secret confirmed.
 
Is there any compensation for the mentioned paid-content (ascension perks) for all the buyers of Utopia-DLC?
I think the same amount of new and exclusive perks would be fair?!
 
As such, Terra Incognita no longer needs to be manually lifted on empires you have met in order to not make them appear grey and washed out on the map, also making it easier to see important galactic features such as nebulas.

Never mind complete changing how FTL and borders work, this is the most significant change of the Cherryh update.

I hate those washed our borders.

Total War does this as well. When you meet another faction, you know where all their provinces are and you can see by mousing over them, but it still shows them inside some stupid 'fog of war' until you send someone to physically look at them, like it's a 90s RTS.

at least fucking eu4 knew about this stuff like ive always good cartagraphy is key key to a grand strategy or 4x experience and this still 'fog of war' business is a silly throwback from like warcraft 2 but they don't listen and its fucking stupid in rts as well because people can see further than like 200 yards and all i wanna do is fucking zoom out and see a nice overview of my empire and everyone else without fucking random, irregular patches of grey or brown something but nooo you gotta send an actual person to go and physically stand there even though the fucking fog of war goes over places you wouldn't even get to like the middle of the desert and they got this right in shogun 2 because when you contact another faction you just see all their provinces automatically but they shit it up again in rome 2 and ok so that game was a clusterfuck but they did it as well in warhammer even though that game is actually good and i don't know what the hell is wrong with them or what i need to say to make them stop but i fucking tried and it wasn't good enough and i honestly don't what to say to them

So yeah, I think this is a pretty good change. Nice one.
 
Will the way communications are established be reworked? Because right now it is very problematic.

1. It costs a fixed amount of society research (60 I think), which is a lot early on. So if a player takes the straight foward choice to research any communication option immediately, he will will fall back many years in society research, which early techs are often critical. If he however just ignores it, the unknown AI empires (if is is not space monsters) will research it anyway, so the player will actually get a lead over the AI empires in society tech. Later on when research point generation is much faster, it becomes however a no brainer to research it immediately, because the side who initates communications seems to get a little bit of bonus influence (which is a bad trade for 60 society points early on, but an extremely good trade later on).

2. The influence you get from establishing many communications (with little difference whether you or the AI researched it, but not from third party knowledge) is actually huge. So the best way to play is currently to send ships into every corner of the galaxy ASAP, so you get all the influence you need for colonization etc. If you however wait too long, you are punished double because getting communication via third parties doesn't grant any influence - which is another reason why the slowly exploring AI empires fall behind.
The ability to sell communications seems to be just another reason to establish them as soon as possible yourself. Like selling star charts is looks to be an additional way to give the player an advantage of the quite passive behaviour of AI.

3. Establishing communication is far too fast and uneventful, making the 'First Contact Protocol' policies pointless. You can't really do much damage to an empire before communications are established by the other side and hostilities are force-ended.
 
Last edited:
at least fucking eu4 knew about this stuff like ive always good cartagraphy is key key to a grand strategy or 4x experience and this still 'fog of war' business is a silly throwback from like warcraft 2 but they don't listen and its fucking stupid in rts as well because people can see further than like 200 yards and all i wanna do is fucking zoom out and see a nice overview of my empire and everyone else without fucking random, irregular patches of grey or brown something but nooo you gotta send an actual person to go and physically stand there even though the fucking fog of war goes over places you wouldn't even get to like the middle of the desert and they got this right in shogun 2 because when you contact another faction you just see all their provinces automatically but they shit it up again in rome 2 and ok so that game was a clusterfuck but they did it as well in warhammer even though that game is actually good and i don't know what the hell is wrong with them or what i need to say to make them stop but i fucking tried and it wasn't good enough and i honestly don't know what is wrong with them or what to say to them

Holy shit, I didn't know we could curse here!
 
Just registered because i couldn't stand another day without posting hahah.

All these look great!! And I cant wait to see how you faced the doomstack issue. My only questions are:
How will Sectors display with the new frontier system? And how will they work with the new Starport mechanics? (Not sure if those have been answered though)

Great work with the game so far, Wiz!
 
Is there any compensation for the mentioned paid-content (ascension perks) for all the buyers of Utopia-DLC?
I think the same amount of new and exclusive perks would be fair?!

I was about to ask this too, but then thought it would come across a little bit small-minded. A reasonable question nevertheless, I guess.

And if no a new perk, maybe new Megastructures? (see related thread)
 
and this still 'fog of war' business is a silly throwback from like warcraft 2
Actually existed a lot earlier - its first use in a commercial game occurs in 1977 in Empire, and the concept, first written about by Clausewitz, has become common military speak since 1896.
 
@Wiz

On the topic of communicating with other empires. either i did not read it properly or you did not make it clear?

1, if I trade communications with empire A and then within the time of the deal they meet empire B,C,D will these other empires meet me as a result?

2, If I am empire A and i know Empire B (but i do not have a trade comms deal with them) but they do a trade comms deal with Empire C do Empire C get to meet me even though I have not agreed to empire B sharing my information?

if point 2 is true then can we set up the equivalent of the little box on application forms that says "if you do not want us to share your date please tick here"

cheers
 
That's ... Incredible. Thank you for that !

But does that mean that you'll never work again on the Ascension Paths ?

No, it's not that we don't ever go back and update paid features, it's just a matter of dependency issues.
 
In Cherryh, any system inside the borders of an empire you have communications with will automatically be considered surveyed, without any need to send a science ship into it and waste a bunch of time scanning planets that have no chance of yielding anomalies aynway. There are some exceptions to this, such as Fallen Empires, whose space will need to be surveyed manually and can in fact yield anomalies.

I probably don't understand but the anomalies are one of the most fun aspects of the game and doesn't this drastically reduce the amount of systems I can survey and get anomalies ?
 
I probably don't understand but the anomalies are one of the most fun aspects of the game and doesn't this drastically reduce the amount of systems I can survey and get anomalies ?

No, it does not. What it does is make it so you don't have to survey systems where you can't get anomalies anyway.
 
I probably don't understand but the anomalies are one of the most fun aspects of the game and doesn't this drastically reduce the amount of systems I can survey and get anomalies ?
Nope, all the systems you could and had to survey before in borders of other empires had zero chance of anomalies.
Still you lose a lot of research from Planetary Survey Corps tradition. I hope something will be made about it.

Edit: And, I'm too slow, already answered
 
In Cherryh, any system inside the borders of an empire you have communications with will automatically be considered surveyed, without any need to send a science ship into it and waste a bunch of time scanning planets that have no chance of yielding anomalies aynway.
What about that Discovery tradition that gave you 10% of your science points for every surveyed planet? Surveying planets was not useless, even if the anomaly chance was 0%.
 
@Wiz

On the topic of communicating with other empires. either i did not read it properly or you did not make it clear?

1, if I trade communications with empire A and then within the time of the deal they meet empire B,C,D will these other empires meet me as a result?

2, If I am empire A and i know Empire B (but i do not have a trade comms deal with them) but they do a trade comms deal with Empire C do Empire C get to meet me even though I have not agreed to empire B sharing my information?

Is this what is meant by trading communications? If so, I will advocate a boycott. There'll be no more genuine first contact, just endlessly cascading meetings until you know everyone (within 50 years of game start, most likely).
 
Becuase it basically works like an ascension path except its event driven.
Yes, its Event driven. Making it an Ascension perk would remove its rareness and uniqueness. You could basically take it every game and the ending would be spoilered as all Ascension perks have to have a description of their effects.
 
I probably don't understand but the anomalies are one of the most fun aspects of the game and doesn't this drastically reduce the amount of systems I can survey and get anomalies ?
They already said that you could never find anomalies in systems that belong to other empires (as it could lead to you improving their empire for them by finding a resource improvement) but this was just something that people didn't realise.