• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Stellaris Dev Diary #92: FTL Rework and Galactic Terrain

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about Faster than Light travel in the Cherryh update, and it's likely to be a controversial one. When discussing, please remember to keep things civil, and I would kindly ask that you read the entire dev diary before rushing to post, as it's going to cover some of the questions and concerns we expect to see from the playerbase. Also, as posted last week, all of these changes are currently far away, and we cannot give more details on ETAs or the exact nature of the Cherryh update than we already have. Thank you!

FTL Rework
The single biggest design issue we have had to tackle in the Stellaris team since release is the asymmetrical FTL. While it's a cool and interesting idea on paper, the honest truth is that the feature just does not fit well into the game in practice, and blocks numerous improvements on a myriad of other features such as warfare and exploration, as well as solutions to fundamental design problems like the weakness of static defenses. After a lot of debate among the designers, we finally decided that if we were ever going to be able to tackle these issues and turn Stellaris into a game with truly engrossing and interesting warfare, we would have to bite the bullet and take a controversial decision: Consolidating FTL from the current three types down into a primarily hyperlane-based game, with more advanced forms of FTL unlocked through technology.

However, as I have said on the previous occasions when discussing this issue, one thing we would never consider doing is just slashing FTL types from the game without adding in something else to compensate their loss. That is what most of this dev diary is going to be about. However, before continuing with the details on the additions and changes we're making to FTL, I want to cover a couple of the questions I expect will arise from this:

Why are you removing FTL choices instead of building on them?
A lot of people have asked this question when we have brought up consolidating FTL types before, suggesting that problems such as static defenses can be solved by just adding more mechanics to handle each special case. I think the problem with this is best illustrated with defense stations and FTL inhibitors. One of the aims of the Starbase system is to give empires the ability to 'lock down' their borders, building fortresses that enemy fleets cannot simply skip past to strike at their core worlds, instead of having to create static defenses in every single valuable system.

With hyperlanes, this is a pretty simple affair: As hyperlanes create natural choke points, the only thing a hyperlane-stopping FTL inhibitor needs to do is to prevent enemy fleets from leaving the system once they enter it. The fleet can enter, it can retreat (via emergency FTL) and it can bring down the source of the FTL inhibitor (which might be a Starbase or even a planet) to be able to continue. This is quite easy to understand, both in terms of which system you need to defend to lock down your borders, and how it works when you are on the offensive.

Now let's add Warp to the mix. In this case, the single-system FTL inhibitor is useless because Warp fleets can just go over it, so we'll invent another mechanic: A warp interdiction bubble, stretching a certain distance around the system, that pull in any hostile Warp fleets traveling there to the system containing the FTL inhibitor, and force them to battle it or retreat. This is immediately a lot more messy: First of all, this bubble can't possibly affect Hyperlane fleets, because it could potentially pull them dozens of jumps away from their current location. This means that when fortifying your borders, you now need to not just make sure that every important chokepoint is covered, but also that your entire border is covered in warp interdiction bubbles.

But there's more: Add Wormholes as well, and you now have an FTL type where not only the 'bubble' type interdictor doesn't make intuitive sense (because Wormhole fleets make point-to-point jumps rather than traveling over the map) but if said interdictor works to pull Wormhole fleets out of position regardless of what makes intuitive sense, you end up with the same probem as with hyperlanes, where the fleet can get pulled out of range of its wormhole network and end up stranded even if it brings down the defenses. This means you pretty much have to invent a third type of interdiction type for Wormhole on top of what is already an overengineered and hard to understand system.

Finally, add the problem of displaying all these different types of inhibitors and interdictors on the map, in a way that the player can even remotely start to understand, and you end up with nothing short of a complete mess, where it's far better to just have static defenses protecting single valuable systems... and so we come full circle.

This is the fundamental problem that we have been grappling with when it comes to asymmetrical FTL: What works in a game such as Sword of the Stars, with its turn-based gameplay, small maps of usually no more than 3-6 empires, and 1-on-1 wars breaks down completely in a Stellaris game with real-time gameplay and wars potentially containing a dozen actors, all with their own form of FTL. The complexity collapses into what is for the player just a mess of fleets appearing and disappearing with no discernible logic to them.

Why Hyperlanes?
When discussing this, we essentially boiled down the consolidation into three possibilities: Hyperlanes only, Warp-only, and Warp+Hyperlanes. Wormhole is simply too different a FTL type to ever really work with the others, and not intuitive enough to work as the sole starting FTL for everyone playing the game. Keeping both Warp and Hyperlanes would be an improvement, but would still keep many of the issues we currently have in regards to user experience and fleet coordination. Warp-only was considered as an alternative, but ultimately Hyperlanes won out because of the possibilities it opens up for galactic geography, static defenses and enhancements to exploration.

Here are the some of the possibilities that consolidation of FTL into Hyperlanes creates for Stellaris:
  • Unified distance, sensor and border systems that make sense for everyone (for example, cost of claiming a system not being based on euclidean distance but rather the actual distance for ships to travel there)
  • Galactic 'geography', systems that are strategically and tactically important due to location and 'terrain' (more on this below) rather than just resources
  • More possibilities for galaxy generation and exploration (for example, entire regions of space accessible only through a wormhole or a single guarded hyperlane, containing special locations and events to discover)
  • Better performance through caching and unified code (Wormhole FTL in particular is a massive resource hog in the late game)
  • Warfare with a distinct sense of 'theatres', advancing/retreating fronts and border skirmishes (more on this in future dev diaries)
Are all new forms of FTL free patch content?
Yes. Naturally we're not going to charge for any form of content meant to replace the loss of old FTL types.

Hyperlane and Sublight Travel
As mentioned, in the Cherryh update. all empires will now start the game with Hyperlanes as their only mode of FTL. By default, hyperlane generation is going to be changed to create more 'islands' and 'choke points', to make for more interesting galactic geography. However, as we know some players do not enjoy the idea of constricted space, we are going to add a slider that controls the general frequency and connectivity of hyperlanes. Turning this up will create a more connected galaxy and make it harder to protect all your systems with static defenses, for players who prefer something closer to the current game's Warp-style movement.

Sublight travel is also being changed somewhat, in the sense that you need to actually travel to the entry point to a particular hyperlane (the arrow inside a system) to enter it, rather than being able to enter any hyperlane from any point outside's a system's gravity well. This means that fleets will move in a more predictable fashion, and interdictions will frequently happen inside systems instead of nearly always being at the edge of them, in particular allowing for fleets to 'guard' important hyperlane entry/exit points. To compensate for the need to move across systems, sublight travel has been sped up, especially with more advanced forms of thrusters.
2017_11_02_2.png


FTL Sensors
Along with the change to FTL, we are also changing the way sensors work. Instead of simply being a circle radiating an arbitrary distance from a ship, station or planet, each level of sensors can now see a certain distance in FTL connections. For example, a ship with level 1 sensors (Radar) will only give sensor coverage of the same system that it is currently in, while a ship with level 2 (Gravitic) sensors will give sensor coverage of that system and all systems connected to it through a Hyperlane or explored Wormhole (more on that below), a ship with level 3 sensors will be able to see systems connected to those systems, and so on. Sensor coverage can be 'blocked' by certain galactic features (more on that below), which will also block propagation into further connected systems. We are currently discussing the implementation of sensor blockers as a potential Starbase component.
2017_11_02_1.png


Wormholes
While Wormhole as a full-fledged FTL type is gone, Wormholes are not. Instead they have been changed into a natural formation that can be encountered while exploring the galaxy. Wormholes come in pairs, essentially functioning as very long hyperlanes that can potentially take a ship across the entire galaxy near-instantly. Natural Wormholes are unstable, and when first encountered, you will not be able to explore them. To explore a Wormhole, you need the Wormhole Stabilization technology, after which a science ship can be sent to stabilize and chart the Wormhole to find out what lies on the other side. If you're lucky, this may be unclaimed space full of valuable systems, but it could just as well be a Devouring Swarm eager to come over for dinner. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of wormhole pairs in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_4.png


Gateways
Gateways is an advanced form of FTL most closely resembling the Wormhole FTL in the live version of the game. While exploring the galaxy, you can find abandoned Gateways that were once part of a massive, galaxy-spanning network. These Gateways are disabled and unusable, but with the Gateway Reactivation mid-game technology and a hefty investment of minerals, they can be restored to working order. Like Wormholes, Gateways allow for near-instant travel to other Gateways, but the difference is that any activated Gateway can be used to travel to any other activated Gateway, and late-game technology allows for the construction of more Gateways to expand the network. Also unlike Wormholes, which cannot be 'closed', Gateways also have the advantage of allowing any empire controlling the system they're in to control who goes through said Gateway - hostile empires and empires to whom you have closed your borders will not be able to use 'your' Gateways to just appear inside of your systems.

When the first Gateway is re-activated, another random Gateway will also be re-activated along with it, so that there is never a situation where you just have a single active Gateway going nowhere. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of abandoned gateways in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_8.png


Jump Drives
Jump Drives and Psi Jump Drives have been changed, and is now an advanced form of FTL that mixes Hyperdrive with some functionality from the old Warp FTL. They allow for a ship to travel normally and very quickly along hyperlanes, but also come equipped with a tactical 'jump' functionality that allows a fleet to make a point-to-point jump ignoring the normal hyperlane limitations. This is done with a special fleet order where you select a target system for the jump (within a certain pre-defined range, with Psi Jump Drives having longer range than regular Jump Drives), after which the fleet charges up its jump drive and creates a temporary wormhole leading to the system. After the fleet makes its 'jump', the Jump Drive will need to recharge, with a significant cooldown before it can be used again, and also applies a debuff to the fleet that reduces its combat effectiveness while the cooldown is in effect. This allows for fleets with Jump Drives to ignore the usual FTL restrictions and skip straight past enemy fleets and stations, but at the cost of leaving themselves vulnerable and potentially stranded for a time afterwards. This design is highly experimental, and may change during the development of Cherryh, but we wanted Jump Drives to not just be 'Hyperdrive IV' but rather to unlock new tactical and strategic possibilities for warfare.

Galactic Terrain
With the switch to Hyperlanes and the creation of strategically important systems and chokepoints, we've also decided to implement something we had always thought was a really interesting idea, but which made little sense without such chokepoints: Galactic Terrain. Specifically, systems with environmental effects and hazards that have profound tactical and strategic effects on ships and empires. This is still something we are in the middle of testing and prototyping, but so far we have created the following forms of Galactic Terrain:
Nebulas block all sensor coverage originating from other systems, meaning that it's impossible for an empire to see what ships and stations are inside a system in a nebula without having a ship or station stationed there, allowing empires to hide their fleets and set up ambushes.
Pulsars interfere with deflector technology, nullifying all ship and station shields in a system with a Pulsar.
Neutron Stars interfere with navigation and ship systems, significantly slowing down sublight travel in a system with a Neutron Star.
Black Holes interfere with FTL, increasing the time it takes for a fleet to charge its emergency FTL and making it more difficult to ships to individually disengage from combat (more on this in a later dev diary).

The above is just a first iteration, and it's something we're likely to tweak and build on more for both the Cherryh update and other updates beyond it, so stay tuned for more information on this.
2017_11_02_3.png

2017_11_02_5.png


That's all for today! I will finish this dev diary by saying that we do not expect everyone to be happy with these changes, but we truly believe that they are necessary to give Stellaris truly great warfare, and that we think you will find the game better for it once you get a chance to try them. We will be doing a Design Corner feature on today's Extraterrestial Thursday stream, where me and Game Designer Daniel Moregård (grekulf) will be discussing the changes, fielding questions and showing off some gameplay in the internal development build. If you want a look at some of these changes in a live game environment, be sure to tune to the Paradox Interactive twitch channel at 4pm CET.

Next week, we're going to talk about war and peace, including the complete rework of the current wargoal system that was made possible by the changes to FTL and system control discussed in this and last week's dev diary. See you then!
 
Last edited:
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Siatru

Second Lieutenant
11 Badges
Feb 7, 2018
188
0
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Because you had ability to cross 100 light years in one jump without game forcing you to follow certain pathway? It's like switching from airplane to trains when you travel.
Also when your empire hundreds hundreds of systems, it takes a lot of time to travel from one border to another

That was before, it was imbalanced and made the galaxy feel like a small cupcake.

You can create webgates to make travelling in your empire much easier now.

Jump drives lets you jump skip over several systems like the warp drives of old without even having to go to the edge of a system's gravity well.
 

pcavalcanti

Second Lieutenant
50 Badges
Dec 24, 2014
138
9
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
Now you have to play Stellaris like EU IV. You create fleets in each province near your weak border or the border you're looking to attack and deploy them when ready. You have to make sure to only declare wars when you know your fleets will get to the enemy's systems faster than they will get to yours. And there's no point to use fleets to defend yourself anymore - just build lots of defense stations in the outposts. Fleets are only to attack now... So... yeah, change that research slider to 0.5 to be able to get to wormholes and gates faster. I literally almost fell asleep playing Stellaris yesterday... but there are some new interesting events going on like some pops being kidnapped.
 

[Q]uik

Captain
112 Badges
Feb 11, 2011
470
688
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Gettysburg
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Lead and Gold
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Starvoid
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • War of the Vikings
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • War of the Roses
Now you have to play Stellaris like EU IV. You create fleets in each province near your weak border or the border you're looking to attack and deploy them when ready. You have to make sure to only declare wars when you know your fleets will get to the enemy's systems faster than they will get to yours. And there's no point to use fleets to defend yourself anymore - just build lots of defense stations in the outposts. Fleets are only to attack now... So... yeah, change that research slider to 0.5 to be able to get to wormholes and gates faster. I literally almost fell asleep playing Stellaris yesterday... but there are some new interesting events going on like some pops being kidnapped.

I personally think this has made the game infinitely more interesting to play.
Before you could just warp to their capital in a matter of seconds, and defenses were completly useless.

Fleets are DEFINITLY still usable as a defense means, especially if you're up against someone stronger than you, it can mean the difference between total defeat and just losing a planet.

I was almost falling asleep playing stellaris before this patch; Now i'm enjoying it so much more.
 

Siatru

Second Lieutenant
11 Badges
Feb 7, 2018
188
0
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Now you have to play Stellaris like EU IV. You create fleets in each province near your weak border or the border you're looking to attack and deploy them when ready. You have to make sure to only declare wars when you know your fleets will get to the enemy's systems faster than they will get to yours. And there's no point to use fleets to defend yourself anymore - just build lots of defense stations in the outposts. Fleets are only to attack now... So... yeah, change that research slider to 0.5 to be able to get to wormholes and gates faster. I literally almost fell asleep playing Stellaris yesterday... but there are some new interesting events going on like some pops being kidnapped.

I don't see how any of this is a problem... except the falling asleep part.
Ships are for offense (but can still be used to defend unfortified systems) and defense stations are for defending.

Enforcing your authority on your claimed territories should be even more of an issue on a galactic scale than EU's scale.

This all sounds reasonable to me.
 

macd21

General
80 Badges
Oct 10, 2011
2.089
945
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
I personally think this has made the game infinitely more interesting to play.
Before you could just warp to their capital in a matter of seconds, and defenses were completly useless.

Fleets are DEFINITLY still usable as a defense means, especially if you're up against someone stronger than you, it can mean the difference between total defeat and just losing a planet.

I was almost falling asleep playing stellaris before this patch; Now i'm enjoying it so much more.

Agreed, it’s a massive improvement. Wars used to be so boring. It was just a matter of building a big fleet and then hunting down the enemy, before taking their worlds. It reminded me of EU4 before forts we’re changed.
 

pcavalcanti

Second Lieutenant
50 Badges
Dec 24, 2014
138
9
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
I don't see how any of this is a problem... except the falling asleep part.
Ships are for offense (but can still be used to defend unfortified systems) and defense stations are for defending.

Enforcing your authority on your claimed territories should be even more of an issue on a galactic scale than EU's scale.

This all sounds reasonable to me.

The falling asleep part should be dealt with as soons as they actually make interesting diplomacy in the game, so I can do stuff while I'm waiting for the stations to be built and the minerals to come. It's reasonable, sure, but what keeps me awake for other paradox games is that there's so much reading to do and so many more decisions to make all the time that you don't mind something building for years, you keep busy.

But in Stellaris, in the early game, your pops are growing and your ships are taking a while to get to places and you need to wait for the minerals to do anything meanwhile there's nothing to read, no information, there's very little planning ahead until your science ships can cover more space and you make contact with other empires. So, that's why I almost fell asleep yesterday except when there were some new events I had never seen before. All the others I've seen a dozen times already.
 

pcavalcanti

Second Lieutenant
50 Badges
Dec 24, 2014
138
9
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
Agreed, it’s a massive improvement. Wars used to be so boring. It was just a matter of building a big fleet and then hunting down the enemy, before taking their worlds. It reminded me of EU4 before forts we’re changed.

Wars weren't that boring before as long as you didn't plan to take the whole galaxy. You had to pay attention to your fleets, defense stations, make sure you invasion troops didn't get caught by intercepting forces. The problem was the doomstacking the AI did that forced you to play this way for the most part and the lackluster defense stations. I believe the current defense stations could have been implemented in 1.9 with the FTL inhibitor and it would have fit in quite well.
 

Xivitai

Corporal
20 Badges
Mar 13, 2018
42
0
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
That was before, it was imbalanced and made the galaxy feel like a small cupcake.
And now it feels like your ships are taking a bus in order to get to needed location. Situation gets especially dreary when you have to merge ships from different shipyards to fill up your losses after another battle, because even battleships now a paper thin. Seriously, before it took fleet of 30k worth of battleships to took down Enigmatic fortress, while losing one or two of them, now with armor as additional hp pool they feel paper thin so any fleet (even if it two times weaker) trash your fleet so you would need to return to base after every serious battle. Which again gets us to problem of hyperlanes.
P.S. Now we need for developers to add hyperlane traffic in next patch so ships could get stuck in traffic.
 
Last edited:

Mandemon

First Lieutenant
62 Badges
May 29, 2013
231
2
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Magicka 2
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • War of the Roses
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Magicka
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Ancient Space
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • King Arthur II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
You had to pay attention to your fleets, defense stations, make sure you invasion troops didn't get caught by intercepting forces

No, you really didn't.

Your "defensive" stations were at best a speed bump and got swatted aside before they could really do anything. There were no fleets, only a fleet you needed to keep track off. Invasion forces followed right behind the fleet.
 

macd21

General
80 Badges
Oct 10, 2011
2.089
945
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
No, you really didn't.

Your "defensive" stations were at best a speed bump and got swatted aside before they could really do anything. There were no fleets, only a fleet you needed to keep track off. Invasion forces followed right behind the fleet.

Agreed. Stations were a joke. There wasn’t really any strategy. Sure, you had to keep an eye on your transports, but that’s hardly a challenge. The new system requires actual decisions to be made. Can you take down that station? Should you leave a fleet in reserve, or do you need to commit all your strength to the front? Can you afford to leave a hyperlane undefended?
 

macd21

General
80 Badges
Oct 10, 2011
2.089
945
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
And now it feels like your ships are taking a bus in order to get to needed location. Situation gets especially dreary when you have to merge ships from different shipyards to fill up your losses after another battle, because even battleships now a paper thin. Seriously, before it took fleet of 30k worth of battleships to took down Enigmatic fortress, while losing one or two of them, now with armor as additional hp pool they feel paper thin so any fleet (even if it two times weaker) trash your fleet so you would need to return to base after every serious battle. Which again gets us to problem of hyperlanes.
P.S. Now we need for developers to add hyperlane traffic in next patch so ships could get stuck in traffic.

All of which are improvements. Before a superior fleet could take down an opponent with few casualties, making doomstacks more dominant. Now it’s possible to wear them down. And increased casualties + travel time forces you to carefully consider whether to build a shipyard on the front line before the war starts. The slower travel time makes every decision an important commitment.
 

[Q]uik

Captain
112 Badges
Feb 11, 2011
470
688
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Gettysburg
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Lead and Gold
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Starvoid
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • War of the Vikings
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • War of the Roses
Wars weren't that boring before as long as you didn't plan to take the whole galaxy. You had to pay attention to your fleets, defense stations, make sure you invasion troops didn't get caught by intercepting forces. The problem was the doomstacking the AI did that forced you to play this way for the most part and the lackluster defense stations. I believe the current defense stations could have been implemented in 1.9 with the FTL inhibitor and it would have fit in quite well.
Why bother with defense stations if the enemy just warps past them or ignores them entirely? and no, the current defense stations would be equally as useless if you can just wormhole past them - how would you make sure that the wormholes can't go past them with a FTL inhibitor, without making it a linear progression thing?
 

Xivitai

Corporal
20 Badges
Mar 13, 2018
42
0
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
All of which are improvements. Before a superior fleet could take down an opponent with few casualties, making doomstacks more dominant. Now it’s possible to wear them down. And increased casualties + travel time forces you to carefully consider whether to build a shipyard on the front line before the war starts. The slower travel time makes every decision an important commitment.
Yeah, except with their price battleships seem to be useless now since they die like corvettes. What point of buying a battleship that takes a year to make if if it's made of wet tissue paper?
Developers could lower armor cap or rebalance weaponry, but not turn armor into another health bar.
 
Last edited:

pcavalcanti

Second Lieutenant
50 Badges
Dec 24, 2014
138
9
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
No, you really didn't.

Your "defensive" stations were at best a speed bump and got swatted aside before they could really do anything. There were no fleets, only a fleet you needed to keep track off. Invasion forces followed right behind the fleet.

I split my fleets, specially in late game so I could take as many planets from the enemies as possible. Specially considering the AI would only chase down one of your fleets due to doomstacking, that was the best way of taking as much as possible in as little time as possible. I only started having fun with Stellaris when I stopped playing it like an RTS and started to think creatively.

Stations weren't a speed bump in mid game as long as you built tons of them. Tons of fortresses did make a difference even in late game if you tech was advanced enough. It's pretty much the same thing now, you have to figure out which systems to defend and re-inforce them.
 

pcavalcanti

Second Lieutenant
50 Badges
Dec 24, 2014
138
9
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
Why bother with defense stations if the enemy just warps past them or ignores them entirely? and no, the current defense stations would be equally as useless if you can just wormhole past them - how would you make sure that the wormholes can't go past them with a FTL inhibitor, without making it a linear progression thing?

Well, you did have to bother with defense stations because even if your enemies had wormholes they still had a war goal. They always went for planets and outposts. If you reinforced those it wouldn't have mattered the FTL type. That's a very silly observation.

Very simple. The idea isn't that they shouldn't be able to skip defense stations. The ideia is, once you are aware of a target you reinforce that target forcing that enemy fleet to face your station and your fleet with the FTL inhibitor. So, you obliterate them. This would work even with jump drives.
Taking 2.0 and the split of doomstacks it would still work if you build many defense stations in each outpost. It would buy enough time for the fleets. Besides the game already forces you to keep a guarded frontier anyways, so no problems there either.

In case they could jump over the frontier all the devs needed to do was to give you the tech to unlock a new map mode so you can see the range radius of wormhole stations so you can see where they'd attack you(according to their war claims). So you can predict their movement and get ready. For warp drives it wouldn't be much different from how jump drives currently work. You add a station module that highly increases cooldown in the system and you make them extremely vulnerable so they would be careful before warping all over.
 

Mandemon

First Lieutenant
62 Badges
May 29, 2013
231
2
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Magicka 2
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • War of the Roses
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Magicka
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Ancient Space
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • King Arthur II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
Yeah, except with their price battleships seem to be useless now since they die like corvettes. What point of buying a battleship that takes a year to make if if it's made of wet tissue paper?
Developers could lover armor cap or rebalance weaponry, but not turn armor into another health bar.

Battleships are "big guns lots of damage" type of damage dealers. They are not be-all-end-all ship type. Torpedo corvettes kill battlesips, destroyers/cruisers kill corvettes and battleships kill cruisers.

If your fleet is nothing but battleships, it will get torn apart by a swarm of angry hornets corvettes that can avoid those big guns.

Well, you did have to bother with defense stations because even if your enemies had wormholes they still had a war goal. They always went for planets and outposts.

I believe the current defense stations could have been implemented in 1.9 with the FTL inhibitor and it would have fit in quite well.

Which means that every colonized system now needs a defensive station, which just means we are back at 1.9 where stations were not used to slowdown/prevent enemy from reaching core worlds. They are just another defensive layer on top of core worlds, to tie them there until your fleet gets to them. Meaning whole idea of defensive station is gone. As noted in the diary:

One of the aims of the Starbase system is to give empires the ability to 'lock down' their borders, building fortresses that enemy fleets cannot simply skip past to strike at their core worlds, instead of having to create static defenses in every single valuable system.

So yeah, your idea basically means that entire idea of starbases is ignored.

Taking 2.0 and the split of doomstacks it would still work if you build many defense stations in each outpost.

3 defensive stations are noway enough to fight a proper mid-game fleet. Defensive stations themselves are pretty weak, it's the numbers backed by Star Fortress/Citadel that makes them formidable.

So you can predict their movement and get ready.

You already know where they will go. To the systems. So you set up fleet nearby, wait for enemy to arrive and then drop your doomstack to system enemy fleet is no busy sitting in. No need to plan further.
 

Siatru

Second Lieutenant
11 Badges
Feb 7, 2018
188
0
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
And now it feels like your ships are taking a bus in order to get to needed location. Situation gets especially dreary when you have to merge ships from different shipyards to fill up your losses after another battle, because even battleships now a paper thin. Seriously, before it took fleet of 30k worth of battleships to took down Enigmatic fortress, while losing one or two of them, now with armor as additional hp pool they feel paper thin so any fleet (even if it two times weaker) trash your fleet so you would need to return to base after every serious battle. Which again gets us to problem of hyperlanes.
P.S. Now we need for developers to add hyperlane traffic in next patch so ships could get stuck in traffic.

Which is still much more generous than it's supposed to be.

Honestly, it sounds like you want the whole game to happen inside a single system so you don't have to make your ships travel.

Travel is supposed to feel long. It's interstellar travel ffs.
 

pcavalcanti

Second Lieutenant
50 Badges
Dec 24, 2014
138
9
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
3 defensive stations are noway enough to fight a proper mid-game fleet. Defensive stations themselves are pretty weak, it's the numbers backed by Star Fortress/Citadel that makes them formidable.


You already know where they will go. To the systems. So you set up fleet nearby, wait for enemy to arrive and then drop your doomstack to system enemy fleet is no busy sitting in. No need to plan further.

Like I said, it depended on your tech, but they were sure limited to 30K at max power, although I'm not sure.
How is that strategy different in 2.0? you already know which roads the enemy fleets will take and all you have to do is to upgrade your starbases along the way. What a huuuuuuuuge difference... o_O
 

pcavalcanti

Second Lieutenant
50 Badges
Dec 24, 2014
138
9
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
Which is still much more generous than it's supposed to be.

Honestly, it sounds like you want the whole game to happen inside a single system so you don't have to make your ships travel.

Travel is supposed to feel long. It's interstellar travel ffs.

I LOL'ed so hard after reading that.
Well, if that's your criteria for how a game should feel like then Stellaris nailed warfare(pre and post 2.0). Motivated by greed, boring, repetitive, wasteful, unbalanced, working in favor of the rich and powerful - unless of course it's against a hive mind os a slaver empire.
 

Mandemon

First Lieutenant
62 Badges
May 29, 2013
231
2
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Magicka 2
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • War of the Roses
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Magicka
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Ancient Space
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • King Arthur II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
Like I said, it depended on your tech, but they were sure limited to 30K at max power, although I'm not sure.
How is that strategy different in 2.0? you already know which roads the enemy fleets will take and all you have to do is to upgrade your starbases along the way. What a huuuuuuuuge difference... o_O

No, you do not know unless you have somehow managed to block all the access for the enemy take except one. Unless you have a managed to build you empire so that there is only one, singular entrance, you need to consider which locations you want to fortify.

In addition, the difference of being able to fortify entries and routes means that you can have defense in depth, where as 1.9 was basically "All battles happen over colonies", making defense in depth impossible. In 2.0, you can have your empire separated in different sections by different routes, meaning you might lose control of part of it, but still be able to defend other part. Depending the layout of the hyperlanes, diplomatic relations between nations and wormhole locations, you might need only few stations to protect large chucks of your empire, or you might tons of stations spread around.

Station you which you do not have an infinite amount, so every station dedicated to defense is one less station dedicated to commerce, anchorages or ship production.

Also, only you can get 30K power is full compliment of stations (18) and fully upgraded Citadel full of guns and nothing else. That is significant expense. Expense which can't move to counter enemy fleet if it decides to use access to allies to go around the station.

Furthermore, in 2.0 even a weak station serves a way to slow down enemy movement, so that your fleets, if caught off-position, can start to travel back and hopefully reach second defensive line before enemy has time to destroy everything. You did build second defensive line, instead of relying on that single station, right?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.